Not Mine Aren't these someone's customs??? (2 Viewers)

[Dale_Doback]

Thanks for your email and post, David. I'm sure he's a stand up guy (my shady comment was directed at red). Look forward to hearing back.

-Mike

 

[Mr Tree]

A manufacturer is entitled to keep extras for the purpose of showing them to prospective customers as samples. We keep 3 extras of each, one for each owner and one for the factory, and any cash chips are notched. It wouldn't make sense to make any more extras than that, you are just losing your profit. We try and project wastage as well as possible and are usually within a couple of chips. If we make too many we include them with the order. Half the time we are short two or three and have to make extras. We always make a few extra bodies but don't press them with inlays unless needed. Those left over get CPC inlays put on them and they are our inlaid advertising samples.
In this case I can only assume that ASM Vegas made way too many chips to make sure they got enough good ones.
It's completely wrong for them to have sold them on but I'm certain Spinetti's bought them in good faith so not much you can do about it. I will text Mikko and Mike in a minute though just in case they bought a ton of other stuff. When we bought the equipment we got no chips at all. Strange given there were thousands lying around when we first viewed, including maybe 1500 Key West. No clue if he sold those to Dennis or what came of them.

Certainly makes sense given the complexity of Dale's chips. I'm surprised Red didn't sell them to him though.

 

[David Spragg]

Certainly makes sense given the complexity of Dale's chips. I'm surprised Red didn't sell them to him though.

Unless they weren't good enough. You can't always tell from a picture whether the inlays are ready to pop etc.

 

[Mr Tree]

Unless they weren't good enough. You can't always tell from a picture whether the inlays are ready to pop etc.

Ha! Like quality was ever his first concern.

 

[Dale_Doback]

In all fairness to red, he DID tell me he had some extras that he would sell to me for $1 each and I said no...and assumed they would be destroyed, not resold and resold again advertising my real last name in the process.

 

[Dale_Doback]

On a lighter note...mock-ups round 1. Got a few that I like but want to make some revisions to.

 

[David Spragg]

Certainly makes sense given the complexity of Dale's chips. I'm surprised Red didn't sell them to him though.

I should add that of all the chips we saw at the ASM Vegas factory (that we didn't receive), the Key West were the only custom order ones. The rest were lots of sets of color samples, spot samples and American Eagle stock chips.

 

[BGinGA]

In all fairness to red, he DID tell me he had some extras that he would sell to me for $1 each and I said no...and assumed they would be destroyed, not resold and resold again advertising my real last name in the process.

Mike, I didn't look closely (or go back and reference your chip set photos), but are the chips in the eBay listing exactly like yours? Or is it perhaps a different mold, or slightly different spot colors, or some other manufacturing error that prompted ASM-LV to redo the chips without your awareness? I know it sounds odd that they would actually remake chips without being threatened, but maybe Michael D was involved in the making of extras (with good intentions) rather than beezlebub.

 

[Dale_Doback]

Yeah, they're exactly like/identical to mine. Exact same mold, edge spots, inlay design and colors. I'm guessing they're extras due to the edge spot designs as someone noted earlier.

And I know my last name isn't a secret as they're on the inlay and I myself posted a thread called Maggini's Cardroom..but there's a difference between that and someone selling my chips with my name in the advertisement. I know you didn't mention anything about that but just throwing it out there in case anyone doesn't understand why I said it in an earlier post.

 

[BGinGA]

Sad situation all around. Hopefully spinetti's will take the high road and consider their purchase of these chips to be 'tainted' and unsaleable.

 

[David Spragg]

Mike, I didn't look closely (or go back and reference your chip set photos), but are the chips in the eBay listing exactly like yours? Or is it perhaps a different mold, or slightly different spot colors, or some other manufacturing error that prompted ASM-LV to redo the chips without your awareness? I know it sounds odd that they would actually remake chips without being threatened, but maybe Michael D was involved in the making of extras (with good intentions) rather than beezlebub.

I just checked back and this order was shipped the day before we bought ASM Vegas. Michael had already parted company with them a few months before. These had to be extras made in the course of production by Red to make sure he had enough for the order.
Does not provide any excuse for him selling them, just pointing out why they existed.

 

[David Spragg]

Sad situation all around. Hopefully spinetti's will take the high road and consider their purchase of these chips to be 'tainted' and unsaleable.

Tough call if they bought 20,000 chips.

 

[BGinGA]

Trying to get my head around how somebody makes 100 extra chips..... unless by accident or in error..... which would actually make some sense.

 

[stocky]

Trying to get my head around how somebody makes 100 extra chips..... unless by accident or in error..... which would actually make some sense.

I pointed out in an earlier post Red seemed to actually do this often and usually offered them to the customer at a discounted price.

I can't be arsed finding all the threads but it did happen.

 

[David Spragg]

Trying to get my head around how somebody makes 100 extra chips..... unless by accident or in error..... which would actually make some sense.

Order was for 1,050 $5's. 80 extra would be about the expected number assuming you were dumb enough to actually waste time finish pressing them all.

 

[David Spragg]

I pointed out in an earlier post Red seemed to actually do this often and usually offered them to the customer at a discounted price.

I can't be arsed finding all the threads but it did happen.

It happened all the time. I see it in the records.

 

[abby99]

Trying to get my head around how somebody makes 100 extra chips..... unless by accident or in error..... which would actually make some sense.

Maffs are hard.

 

[David Spragg]

Trying to get my head around how somebody makes 100 extra chips..... unless by accident or in error..... which would actually make some sense.

Here is an example of how we do it so you can relate.
Order is for 1000 chips.
Aim to make 1100 bodies
Some are rejected so you end up with 1090
You punch and assemble those losing a few more in the process and end up with 1070
You guess you will actually need to press 1040 to get 1000 good ones
You press 1040 but 42 are rejected so you are short 2
You take 10 of the spares and press those for good measure.
9 come out good so the customer gets 7 free extras
Rejects go straight in the trash
The 20 leftover bodies get pressed with CPC inlays and are available as samples

Now, if your QC is non existent you may as well press the whole lot and end up with maybe 1080 good and bad. 1000 for the customer and 80 that you try and sell him cheap. The 80 may bot may not be substandard. Come to think if it, the 1000 may be substandard

You get the idea.

 

[David Spragg]

Trying to get my head around how somebody makes 100 extra chips..... unless by accident or in error..... which would actually make some sense.

And of course for something like 4V you are more likely to start with 1200 to get 1000.

 

[sleepypiggly]

And of course for something like 4V you are more likely to start with 1200 to get 1000.

What are some of the features from a chip manufacturer’s perspective that could constitute a “reject” chip?

For example, I remember back in the day, ASM did not find split edges (even if there’s a substantial amount of split edges in the batch) to be rejects. There was even an old thread back at CT that had the title along the lines of “will it split” that discussed what color combinations will have a higher probability in edge spot splitting, as to avoid them.

 

[David Spragg]

What are some of the features from a chip manufacturer’s perspective that could constitute a “reject” chip?

For example, I remember back in the day, ASM did not find split edges (even if there’s a substantial amount of split edges in the batch) to be rejects. There was even an old thread back at CT that had the title along the lines of “will it split” that discussed what color combinations will have a higher probability in edge spot splitting, as to avoid them.

Can't always guarantee to spot them all, but spinners, inlays too far off centre, too thick or thin, chipped edges, missing bits of clay are the norm. You can't control edge spots for certain molds/colors/patterns but there is not always a consistent pattern. On one day they may come out ok, on another they split. If they barely show at all they are usually culled.
If you look at enough Paulsons you will find plenty split edges also.

 

[Gear]

I think those would be recognisable from a mile off

I was just talking about k9dr's use of "voldemott", not the Suicide Queen chips or what happened to them.

 

[Mr Tree]

I pointed out in an earlier post Red seemed to actually do this often and usually offered them to the customer at a discounted price.

I can't be arsed finding all the threads but it did happen.

Happened with me as well.

 

[David Spragg]

I was just talking about k9dr's use of "voldemott", not the Suicide Queen chips or what happened to them.

"voldemott" - he who shall not be arsed

 

[Payback]

I know @Breich ended up with 300 extra quarters he bought from red since he screwed up and put the wrong inlay on them. Seemed like the screw ups happened with a lot of orders.

 

[slisk250]

Can't always guarantee to spot them all, but spinners, inlays too far off centre, too thick or thin, chipped edges, missing bits of clay are the norm. You can't control edge spots for certain molds/colors/patterns but there is not always a consistent pattern. On one day they may come out ok, on another they split. If they barely show at all they are usually culled.
If you look at enough Paulsons you will find plenty split edges also.

slight derail - Am I happy with my CPC - yes sir. Are there some chips that are less than perfect?, of course and to me it adds a bit of character. That is what you get when they are custom, hand made. I see these characteristics with every clay chip ever made and I like it.

 

[BiGGyT]

Sounds like a working harder than smarter issue - if there were that many extras, but hey, I am not a chip maker. Thanks for the insight of how it is done, I imagine when you are making multi-denom sets you have a bunch of unintended extras. If it were me, I'd probably toss them in the order in a separate bag saying "extras" so if they are not premium, customer would not complain, although the notching and sample makes a lot of sense too.

Good luck on scooping these off the streets before they find their way into your game.

BTW, now selling racks of The Hitching Post chips

BiGGyT

 

[David Spragg]

Sounds like a working harder than smarter issue - if there were that many extras, but hey, I am not a chip maker. Thanks for the insight of how it is done, I imagine when you are making multi-denom sets you have a bunch of unintended extras. If it were me, I'd probably toss them in the order in a separate bag saying "extras" so if they are not premium, customer would not complain, although the notching and sample makes a lot of sense too.

Good luck on scooping these off the streets before they find their way into your game.

BTW, now selling racks of The Hitching Post chips

BiGGyT

If you read all my explanations you will see you don't ever end up with a bunch of extras even on a multi-denom set because the extra parts are culled before you get to the finish pressing stage and used for other things. If there are a few extras they get included, for several reasons:
1. They are no use to us
2. We have missed the odd chip that should have been rejected
3. We know there are none kicking around that could ever lead to the scenario in this thread

 

[Mr Tree]

Sounds like a working harder than smarter issue - if there were that many extras, but hey, I am not a chip maker. Thanks for the insight of how it is done, I imagine when you are making multi-denom sets you have a bunch of unintended extras. If it were me, I'd probably toss them in the order in a separate bag saying "extras" so if they are not premium, customer would not complain, although the notching and sample makes a lot of sense too.

Good luck on scooping these off the streets before they find their way into your game.

BTW, now selling racks of The Hitching Post chips

BiGGyT

Uh oh, sounds like I need to do an inventory check tonight. Is this post admissible as evidence should I have a shortage? [emoji37]

 

[BGinGA]

All I wanted was just a small travel heads-up set, honestly.....