ASM/ Burt Mold Found Again ! (3 Viewers)

[Poker Zombie]

David had mentioned at one time about the difficulties in creating a new hob/cub (mold). Basically, easier to land the Mars rover than to create a new mold due to the very precise measurements involved.

 

[slisk250]

I love the Arodie mold. I'd buy another set if it were serviceable. We got E&C back for the time being, maybe there is hope for this one.

 

[RainmanTrail]

David had mentioned at one time about the difficulties in creating a new hob/cub (mold). Basically, easier to land the Mars rover than to create a new mold due to the very precise measurements involved.

I keep hearing this, but for some reason I have a difficult time believing it. Weren't they using these same molds 50+ years ago? Precision tools have come a long way since the WWII era. Surely if they could make suitable molds back then, they could make them more easily/efficiently today, no? Would be fun to pick David's brain about this topic. I've read his posts about it being difficult and expensive, but I'd be interested in understanding the actual process and challenges involved.

I wonder how much money a manufacturing company like Boeing would value this project at. Obviously they're not going to make them and start selling them to chippers or anything like that, but I'd be curious to know how much they would budget for a project like this if it was something they had to do. If I knew more about what exactly is needed, I could find out how much my company would budget to make them. I know we could do it (we manufacture multi-million dollar robots), but it'd almost certainly cost us far more than the 20k estimate David gave.

 

[RainmanTrail]

I love the Arodie mold. I'd buy another set if it were serviceable. We got E&C back for the time being, maybe there is hope for this one.

We got the E&C mold back? Where the hell have I been?

 

[Ronoh]

We got the E&C mold back? Where the hell have I been?

Temporarily at least.

And the clock is ticking...

 

[Blaster]

Thanks Blaster. Not complaining but there was one casualty. View attachment 83068

That one was a custom PGI China Clay I had made some years back, and I have noticed recently they seem( to me) to be or have become very "crumbly" and easy to break.. It was put in with the CPS as extras .. Sorry it didn't make it in one piece, I can re-send another If you want..

 

[mike32]

Today is the day I will reveal the mold , and the details about the company that still owns it.
Info tidbit #1 - It is NOT the hub mold.
Info tidbit # 2 - The correct mold has been posted in this thread, so we have a winner. ..
Stay tuned

That one was a custom PGI China Clay I had made some years back, and I have noticed recently they seem( to me) to be or have become very "crumbly" and easy to break.. It was put in with the CPS as extras .. Sorry it didn't make it in one piece, I can re-send another If you want..

No worries. The same thing happened to @detroitdad China clay and. Actually my youngest son admitted he dropped it on our kitchen wood floor, but I believe a chip in perfect condition would not have broke. Thanks!

 

[BGinGA]

I keep hearing this, but for some reason I have a difficult time believing it.

I know the reason. Two reasons, actually.

First one is that you're stubborn and refuse to believe something without proof, authoritative source be damned. Second reason is that the process and equipment details are pretty much trade secrets, and not likely to be shared publicly (or privately, for that matter) -- so being supplied with tangible proof isn't happening.

Suffice it to say that the chip-making components required to fit existing pressing equipment are very large and very complex, containing many built-in internal structures required for temperature control.... and that's just the tip of the iceberg. A compression "chip mold" is not just some small and simple hunk of metal that's been machined into the reversed shape of a chip. The fact that it takes hours of manual labor just to change out one mold for another ~should~ tell you something.

If that's not enough for ya, well then, sorry pal -- believe it or not. But you aren't likely to be able to find or dig up much more info or specifics. If it was easy, everybody would be doing it.

 

[RainmanTrail]

I know the reason. Two reasons, actually.

First one is that you're stubborn and refuse to believe something without proof, authoritative source be damned.

Very, very true. I think I have good reasons for doubting this one though... I recall walking through Boeing's manufacturing buildings and being told that the machining tolerances on the airplane wings were within one then thousandth of an inch. That's pretty impressive. Yet I can't even get two stacks of CPC chips to stand within 1mm of each other (not complaining just an observation). And somehow, I'm supposed to believe that making those cups is "harder than landing on mars" despite the fact that they were successfully making them with equipment from the first half of the 20th century? I'll take the under

Second reason is that the process and equipment details are pretty much trade secrets, and not likely to be shared publicly (or privately, for that matter) -- so being supplied with tangible proof isn't happening.

^^^This! I think this is where the fire's at...

Suffice it to say that the chip-making components required to fit existing pressing equipment are very large and very complex, containing many built-in internal structures required for temperature control.... and that's just the tip of the iceberg. A compression "chip mold" is not just some small and simple hunk of metal that's been machined into the reversed shape of a chip. The fact that it takes hours of manual labor just to change out one mold for another ~should~ tell you something.

If that's not enough for ya, well then, sorry pal -- believe it or not. But you aren't likely to be able to find or dig up much more info or specifics. If it was easy, everybody would be doing it.

I'll buy that. I can definitely see how it'd be an expensive project. I just like to know how everything works, so I poke holes at everything until I get satisfactory answers. it's a wretched disease! I don't think I'm likely to find the answers I'm looking for though anytime soon on this one...

 

[maxim_666666]

I think that it's not about the complexity of making a metal mold.
@BGinGA right. The point is the complexity of the general mechanism, adjustment and similar things ...
As a result, you should get a good chip, uniform in quality and color.
But, if you do not take care of specific conditions, such as the uniformity of temperature throughout the area, you will get a bunch of ugly and shapeless pancakes!
Remember at least ACM-Vegas ... how many complaints about the quality ...

 

[bergs]

Very, very true. I think I have good reasons for doubting this one though... I recall walking through Boeing's manufacturing buildings and being told that the machining tolerances on the airplane wings were within one then thousandth of an inch. That's pretty impressive. Yet I can't even get two stacks of CPC chips to stand within 1mm of each other (not complaining just an observation). And somehow, I'm supposed to believe that making those cups is "harder than landing on mars" despite the fact that they were successfully making them with equipment from the first half of the 20th century? I'll take the under



^^^This! I think this is where the fire's at...



I'll buy that. I can definitely see how it'd be an expensive project. I just like to know how everything works, so I poke holes at everything until I get satisfactory answers. it's a wretched disease! I don't think I'm likely to find the answers I'm looking for though anytime soon on this one...

For starters, making a Boeing wing is prohibitively more expensive than making a set of poker chips. Also, if you had seen the process that JM and I saw years ago with JimB, you'd realize that every poker chip that comes out of CPC is technically a work of art and not a replica of a prototype coming off an assembly line. Personally, I love the minor variations. They give the chips character. That said, I'd prefer that the wings on any plane I'm flying on are precise.

Building a mold is not impossible, but it's quite intricate and requires a specific shape that seems to be difficult to machine.

I'd love to start up a GB for the Arodie mood but I don't think they're going to sell, and the one cup that CPC (ASM) had apparently had issues that made unsatisfactory chips. Love love love that mold. I'd spend a lot of money on a custom set with that mold.

 

[upNdown]

I love the Arodie mold. I'd buy another set if it were serviceable. We got E&C back for the time being, maybe there is hope for this one.

Oh my god, I just took a close look at the mold for the first time. All along, I've been pronouncing it are-OH-dee in my head (and annoyed that it was a stupid name for a mold.) After looking at the picture, it's obviously pronounced arrow-die. HA!

 

[Blaster]

Ah-row-dee!

 

[upNdown]

Ah-row-dee!

Whaaa?
That IS the right way to pronounce it?
I'll have to revert back to my original position. Stupid name.

 

[Blaster]

Whaaa?
That IS the right way to pronounce it?
I'll have to revert back to my original position. Stupid name.

Not sure, but probably both are used.

 

[BGinGA]

arrow-die. Never have figured out why it isn't also spelled that way.

 

[RainmanTrail]

I recently read that some molds were produced using acid. For these, The design is painted onto the hub with a protective coating, then it gets exposed to acid which eats away the unprotected metal. The resulting hub is hardened, and pressed into softer steel to produce the cups. Interesting