CARDS MOLD SHOWCASE! (5 Viewers)

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

ARIA tribute Cash Set, $1 $ $20 are the bombs

These are my second card Mold set after the New China Club set

Loved this set colour combinations, still can’t believe how cheap they are

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I was very disappointed when I saw these photos. This is clearly the artwork of @Johnny5 , so I couldn’t understand how @LeLe got these chips before I got the first shipment from the GB.

I checked back through my PMs and found that he had asked me for permission to order these directly from Tina instead of through one of the group buys, since he lives so close to China. I said that I would need to get John’s approval, and that I was extremely busy getting the GB up and running. Could he wait a bit and we would discuss later? Well, my fault – my inbox was slammed with Aria GB business, and I forgot about Lele’s request. I would have thought after things settled down a bit, that he would reach back out to me to see if I had talked to John yet. But he didn’t. He just decided to go ahead and order them anyway, without John’s approval.

My point in posting this is to point out that here at PCF we have an unwritten rule (or is it written?) that we don’t steal and use artwork from other members without their permission. Yes, we all know that Tina and the other Chinese companies that we submit our art to are going to use it and sell it to the general public. But we here at PCF ought to have a higher standard. A code of ethics that says we will respect the intellectual property at the very least of our fellow members. I know we have had a few other “grey area” discussions over ethics in other areas of chipping. But I feel this one is pretty cut and dry if we want to refer to our home here as a community.

So I did reach out to Lele earlier today to see if maybe he contacted John himself, and to get his side of the story. He was completely unapologetic, and even tried to blame me because I did not get back to him. Stated the fact that he had asked for permission was all he needed to do, and that me not getting back to him was somehow indirectly all the permission he needed.

I’m not sure who it was on here that came up with the idea of an ass-hat list. I think I saw @Windwalker use it first. But I think it’s a great idea, and Mr. Lele has just gone to the top of mine. Which means he is someone that I will never do any business with here on PCF. So if you agree with me that the artwork of our designers here on PCF is sacred, and not to be used without permission, then I would encourage you to put @LeLe on your ass-hat list too. Thank you.

 

[jpietrella]

I was very disappointed when I saw these photos. This is clearly the artwork of @Johnny5 , so I couldn’t understand how @LeLe got these chips before I got the first shipment from the GB.

I checked back through my PMs and found that he had asked me for permission to order these directly from Tina instead of through one of the group buys, since he lives so close to China. I said that I would need to get John’s approval, and that I was extremely busy getting the GB up and running. Could he wait a bit and we would discuss later? Well, my fault – my inbox was slammed with Aria GB business, and I forgot about Lele’s request. I would have thought after things settled down a bit, that he would reach back out to me to see if I had talked to John yet. But he didn’t. He just decided to go ahead and order them anyway, without John’s approval.

My point in posting this is to point out that here at PCF we have an unwritten rule (or is it written?) that we don’t steal and use artwork from other members without their permission. Yes, we all know that Tina and the other Chinese companies that we submit our art to are going to use it and sell it to the general public. But we here at PCF ought to have a higher standard. A code of ethics that says we will respect the intellectual property at the very least of our fellow members. I know we have had a few other “grey area” discussions over ethics in other areas of chipping. But I feel this one is pretty cut and dry if we want to refer to our home here as a community.

So I did reach out to Lele earlier today to see if maybe he contacted John himself, and to get his side of the story. He was completely unapologetic, and even tried to blame me because I did not get back to him. Stated the fact that he had asked for permission was all he needed to do, and that me not getting back to him was somehow indirectly all the permission he needed.

I’m not sure who it was on here that came up with the idea of an ass-hat list. I think I saw @Windwalker use it first. But I think it’s a great idea, and Mr. Lele has just gone to the top of mine. Which means he is someone that I will never do any business with here on PCF. So if you agree with me that the artwork of our designers here on PCF is sacred, and not to be used without permission, then I would encourage you to put @LeLe on your ass-hat list too. Thank you.

I've got no dog in this race but as someone who has been redrawing the Binion's WSOP labels as vector art, I'm wondering how it's obvious that is someone else's design? Maybe it's obvious for some reason that I don't know.

I agree all art should get permission in order to be used, so I guess my question is if I redraw a label, how can I avoid an uncomfortable situation like this one where someone may have recreated the same label?

 

[Himewad]

I've got no dog in this race but as someone who has been redrawing the Binion's WSOP labels as vector art, I'm wondering how it's obvious that is someone else's design? Maybe it's obvious for some reason that I don't know.

I agree all art should get permission in order to be used, so I guess my question is if I redraw a label, how can I avoid an uncomfortable situation like this one where someone may have recreated the same label?

I think if you can show that you actually have the artwork files in question, no one can accuse you of anything.

 

[jpietrella]

I think if you can show that you actually have the artwork files in question, no one can accuse you of anything.

So then I guess my question becomes how do we know @LeLe didn't go off and create his own art files after not hearing back about using someone else's?

 

[Himewad]

So then I guess my question becomes how do we know @LeLe didn't go off and create his own art files after not hearing back about using someone else's?

Sounds like he admitted that he went through the back door.

 

[Kid_Eastwood]

I've got no dog in this race but as someone who has been redrawing the Binion's WSOP labels as vector art, I'm wondering how it's obvious that is someone else's design? Maybe it's obvious for some reason that I don't know.

I agree all art should get permission in order to be used, so I guess my question is if I redraw a label, how can I avoid an uncomfortable situation like this one where someone may have recreated the same label?

I get your point.

I'm myself in the process of getting Arya (name of my dog) chips made by SF.

Still working on the colors during the prototyping phase.

And I've created everything from A to Z myself.

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

I've got no dog in this race but as someone who has been redrawing the Binion's WSOP labels as vector art, I'm wondering how it's obvious that is someone else's design? Maybe it's obvious for some reason that I don't know.

I agree all art should get permission in order to be used, so I guess my question is if I redraw a label, how can I avoid an uncomfortable situation like this one where someone may have recreated the same label?

As I stated, I communicated at length with this person earlier today. They contacted me about using the artwork which was in Tina's possession. Then ordered the chips from Tina. I'm intimately familiar with these designs since I worked directly with John to come up with them. If someone had designed their own copy, I suspect I would be able to identify minute differences. But in this case, the individual is not claiming that they came up with their own designs. They absolutely used John's designs.

 

[FDLmold]

I was very disappointed when I saw these photos. This is clearly the artwork of @Johnny5 , so I couldn’t understand how @LeLe got these chips before I got the first shipment from the GB.

I checked back through my PMs and found that he had asked me for permission to order these directly from Tina instead of through one of the group buys, since he lives so close to China. I said that I would need to get John’s approval, and that I was extremely busy getting the GB up and running. Could he wait a bit and we would discuss later? Well, my fault – my inbox was slammed with Aria GB business, and I forgot about Lele’s request. I would have thought after things settled down a bit, that he would reach back out to me to see if I had talked to John yet. But he didn’t. He just decided to go ahead and order them anyway, without John’s approval.

My point in posting this is to point out that here at PCF we have an unwritten rule (or is it written?) that we don’t steal and use artwork from other members without their permission. Yes, we all know that Tina and the other Chinese companies that we submit our art to are going to use it and sell it to the general public. But we here at PCF ought to have a higher standard. A code of ethics that says we will respect the intellectual property at the very least of our fellow members. I know we have had a few other “grey area” discussions over ethics in other areas of chipping. But I feel this one is pretty cut and dry if we want to refer to our home here as a community.

So I did reach out to Lele earlier today to see if maybe he contacted John himself, and to get his side of the story. He was completely unapologetic, and even tried to blame me because I did not get back to him. Stated the fact that he had asked for permission was all he needed to do, and that me not getting back to him was somehow indirectly all the permission he needed.

I’m not sure who it was on here that came up with the idea of an ass-hat list. I think I saw @Windwalker use it first. But I think it’s a great idea, and Mr. Lele has just gone to the top of mine. Which means he is someone that I will never do any business with here on PCF. So if you agree with me that the artwork of our designers here on PCF is sacred, and not to be used without permission, then I would encourage you to put @LeLe on your ass-hat list too. Thank you.

Clearly out of bounds behavior. To be caught and also uncontrite is the worst sin. If you apologize and send like $30 to the artist you ripped off, then I still have a problem with everything, but only about 10% as much as before the apology and remuneration.

 

[jpietrella]

As I stated, I communicated at length with this person earlier today. They contacted me about using the artwork which was in Tina's possession. Then ordered the chips from Tina. I'm intimately familiar with these designs since I worked directly with John to come up with them. If someone had designed their own copy, I suspect I would be able to identify minute differences. But in this case, the individual is not claiming that they came up with their own designs. They absolutely used John's designs.

Got it.

Again, not disagreeing or condoning such behavior, just curious.

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

I get your point.

I'm myself in the process of getting Arya (name of my dog) chips made by SF.

Still working on the colors during the prototyping phase.

And I've created everything from A to Z myself.

Love it! Great job!

 

[Kid_Eastwood]

Love it! Great job!

Thx. I'm almost done.

I requested to keep the original red of the spots on the 500 and 1000.
I also requested to keep the original yellow of thé 1000 and will have a dark grey as spot on the yelllow (darker than the first proto).

 

[TheOffalo]

How do people feel about "copying" colors and edge spots?

I was making a home-game themed WSOP tribute recently for any potential cards mold GBs in the future and had planned to contact @Kid_Eastwood about whether I could get copies of source files just for the colors and edge spots from his various WSOP tribute designs, but then I figure it'd be a good learning experience to try to create them myself.

I realize in this example, @Kid_Eastwood based his designs on existing WSOP chips so it's a little different since they're already "copied" in a sense, but just curious in general if copying colors/edge spots are looked at any differently than inlay designs...

 

[FDLmold]

How do people feel about "copying" colors and edge spots?

I was making a home-game themed WSOP tribute recently for any potential cards mold GBs in the future and had planned to contact @Kid_Eastwood about whether I could get copies of source files just for the colors and edge spots from his various WSOP tribute designs, but then I figure it'd be a good learning experience to try to create them myself.

I realize in this example, @Kid_Eastwood based his designs on existing WSOP chips so it's a little different since they're already "copied" in a sense, but just curious in general if copying colors/edge spots are looked at any differently than inlay designs...

I don't think I've ever seen anybody complain about copying of colors or edgespots. You're not stealing artwork there, just a color palette. No different than if you walked in my living room, liked the wall and ceiling colors, then went home and did the same thing to your house.

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

Clearly out of bounds behavior. To be caught and also uncontrite is the worst sin. If you apologize and send like $30 to the artist you ripped off, then I still have a problem with everything, but only about 10% as much as before the apology and remuneration.

Exactly! All he had to do was reach back out to me later. I know John would have given permission and we would have come up with a reasonable fee for his work. If the photos are all inclusive, then he only got 600 chips. Everyone else is paying 2 cents a chip to John for these, so it is literally $12. And a little patience. So obviously this is NOT about money. It's about integrity and respect for the designer's work.

 

[Kid_Eastwood]

How do people feel about "copying" colors and edge spots?

I was making a home-game themed WSOP tribute recently for any potential cards mold GBs in the future and had planned to contact @Kid_Eastwood about whether I could get copies of source files just for the colors and edge spots from his various WSOP tribute designs, but then I figure it'd be a good learning experience to try to create them myself.

I realize in this example, @Kid_Eastwood based his designs on existing WSOP chips so it's a little different since they're already "copied" in a sense, but just curious in general if copying colors/edge spots are looked at any differently than inlay designs...

I've myself copied the WSOP colors (approx.) and spots but modified the inlay.

This is for me a "tribute".

However I wouldn't use design elements specific to the chips (ex : Rio logo, ...).

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

How do people feel about "copying" colors and edge spots?

I was making a home-game themed WSOP tribute recently for any potential cards mold GBs in the future and had planned to contact @Kid_Eastwood about whether I could get copies of source files just for the colors and edge spots from his various WSOP tribute designs, but then I figure it'd be a good learning experience to try to create them myself.

I realize in this example, @Kid_Eastwood based his designs on existing WSOP chips so it's a little different since they're already "copied" in a sense, but just curious in general if copying colors/edge spots are looked at any differently than inlay designs...

Just what @FDLmold said. If you are doing your own design work, even the colors are not likely to be exactly the same. They will be your interpretation. It would only be a problem if you somehow came across the other person's files and used them as a starting point without their permission.

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

And By the way, I don't just throw someone under the bus on a whim. I reached out to him with every intention of getting his story, getting an apology, and working something out for John. It was only after he showed no remorse, blamed me for not responding, and then completely ignored my last post to him that I decided to shame him publicly.

Sorry, not sorry.

Oh wait, that's what you said to me, wasn't it @LeLe

 

[Eloe2000]

I was very disappointed when I saw these photos. This is clearly the artwork of @Johnny5 , so I couldn’t understand how @LeLe got these chips before I got the first shipment from the GB.

I checked back through my PMs and found that he had asked me for permission to order these directly from Tina instead of through one of the group buys, since he lives so close to China. I said that I would need to get John’s approval, and that I was extremely busy getting the GB up and running. Could he wait a bit and we would discuss later? Well, my fault – my inbox was slammed with Aria GB business, and I forgot about Lele’s request. I would have thought after things settled down a bit, that he would reach back out to me to see if I had talked to John yet. But he didn’t. He just decided to go ahead and order them anyway, without John’s approval.

My point in posting this is to point out that here at PCF we have an unwritten rule (or is it written?) that we don’t steal and use artwork from other members without their permission. Yes, we all know that Tina and the other Chinese companies that we submit our art to are going to use it and sell it to the general public. But we here at PCF ought to have a higher standard. A code of ethics that says we will respect the intellectual property at the very least of our fellow members. I know we have had a few other “grey area” discussions over ethics in other areas of chipping. But I feel this one is pretty cut and dry if we want to refer to our home here as a community.

So I did reach out to Lele earlier today to see if maybe he contacted John himself, and to get his side of the story. He was completely unapologetic, and even tried to blame me because I did not get back to him. Stated the fact that he had asked for permission was all he needed to do, and that me not getting back to him was somehow indirectly all the permission he needed.

I’m not sure who it was on here that came up with the idea of an ass-hat list. I think I saw @Windwalker use it first. But I think it’s a great idea, and Mr. Lele has just gone to the top of mine. Which means he is someone that I will never do any business with here on PCF. So if you agree with me that the artwork of our designers here on PCF is sacred, and not to be used without permission, then I would encourage you to put @LeLe on your ass-hat list too. Thank you.

This has been a concern of mine dealing with this supplier. Not even necessarily anyone doing anything intentionally. But Tina’s info is out there and they might contact Tina ordering something like these Aria chips and assume it is available for public use and Tina and Co. don’t know any different about who created which artwork etc. And lots of us have been using the same artwork across orders and they don’t understand our “rules” regarding these artwork wiles and usage. Quite frankly I won’t be surprised if this happens again, intentionally or unintentionally.

 

[Bill_Man618]

I was very disappointed when I saw these photos. This is clearly the artwork of @Johnny5 , so I couldn’t understand how @LeLe got these chips before I got the first shipment from the GB.

I checked back through my PMs and found that he had asked me for permission to order these directly from Tina instead of through one of the group buys, since he lives so close to China. I said that I would need to get John’s approval, and that I was extremely busy getting the GB up and running. Could he wait a bit and we would discuss later? Well, my fault – my inbox was slammed with Aria GB business, and I forgot about Lele’s request. I would have thought after things settled down a bit, that he would reach back out to me to see if I had talked to John yet. But he didn’t. He just decided to go ahead and order them anyway, without John’s approval.

My point in posting this is to point out that here at PCF we have an unwritten rule (or is it written?) that we don’t steal and use artwork from other members without their permission. Yes, we all know that Tina and the other Chinese companies that we submit our art to are going to use it and sell it to the general public. But we here at PCF ought to have a higher standard. A code of ethics that says we will respect the intellectual property at the very least of our fellow members. I know we have had a few other “grey area” discussions over ethics in other areas of chipping. But I feel this one is pretty cut and dry if we want to refer to our home here as a community.

So I did reach out to Lele earlier today to see if maybe he contacted John himself, and to get his side of the story. He was completely unapologetic, and even tried to blame me because I did not get back to him. Stated the fact that he had asked for permission was all he needed to do, and that me not getting back to him was somehow indirectly all the permission he needed.

I’m not sure who it was on here that came up with the idea of an ass-hat list. I think I saw @Windwalker use it first. But I think it’s a great idea, and Mr. Lele has just gone to the top of mine. Which means he is someone that I will never do any business with here on PCF. So if you agree with me that the artwork of our designers here on PCF is sacred, and not to be used without permission, then I would encourage you to put @LeLe on your ass-hat list too. Thank you.

This is pretty disappointing to me. It would seem obvious to me after looking and reading the 1st post in ANY group buy that the artwork isn’t available to freely use. In all of them the participants either pay an artwork fee or the artist was contacted and allowed the organizer(s) to use that artwork for THAT group buy. In any case it is clear that the art is the intellectual property of the creator and it is not open for public use. Now Tina and Co. obviously will allow anyone to use any artwork which comes as no surprise, however, like @TX_Golf_N_Poker said we as memebers of this community should hold ourselves to a higher standard and not use artwork that we don’t have permission to use. With that said I would like to get @LeLe to explain thier side of the story since the allegations presented display, in my opinion, a serious lack of character and moral values.

So @LeLe I encourage you to respond and defend yourself in this situation. Be honest, even if it makes you look bad.

 

[Jeff]

Not really my business, but I can't help it..did anyone actually obtain permission from Aria to use their design?

 

[CRAW]

 

[Bill_Man618]

Not really my business, but I can't help it..did anyone actually obtain permission from Aria to use their design?

I don’t believe so. I think when the design was 1st designed they had it say Arias for a few reasons one of then being something to do with the legality. I’m not 100% sure on that though since it’s been a little while.

 

[LeLe]

I am full with emotions as I am just aware of the post, I want to go through the time line of what the chat with TX go and what went wrong so fast suddenly.

11.10pm - The first enquiry by TX

11.27pm - I replied back on it

11.48pm - 2nd enquiry by TX

1.32am - I am taken back by what he say and 1 part of the enquiry angry me which didn't kickstart the conversion well and I have indirectly make a typo one part of the message which didn't help when you are typing at 1am+ and using a phone.

I had much more to say but I deleted it, i think it not going to help in resolving anything. I sorry and not sorry about the incident.

What I meant to say for the last message is I sorry and not sorry about the incident, which unfortunately I didn't manage to notice it at the time and went back to sleep

2.11am - Thing take a bad turn

7.05am - I only just realize the typo and didn't mean to offend as a result. I also agreed I do need to make thing right

8am+ - Which bring me here only realizing that the whole thing was bombardment out at 4am+

I felt Harsh at the timing, I didn't realize a Tribute set IP will mean that much. I wanted to make thing right, never expected it to turn out this way.

PCF as a community had grew a lot on me since the start of the year, it make me to engage in forum more actively ; welcome the newly joined just like how the PCF welcomed me when i first join ; giving my point of view and advise on thing that I hope it helpful ; making me keep refreshing the Classifieds every now and then

I felt gutted, my PCF account is ruined. Not sure what I should say anymore.

I Sincerely Apologize to people who are offended by the Act, I just never realize it such a big matter before this.

Let me know what it need to be done to make it right, I want to resolve this matter.

No amount of words can expressed what I am feeling now.

 

[SeanGecko]

This fubarred the thread. If the injured party is made whole we move the fuck on. People make mistakes. Get Johnny in on this he is the guy who lost out not us (as far as I can see).

Cool? Cool? Cool!

The King has spoken may this thread be peaceful once again.

 

[Bill_Man618]

I felt gutted, my PCF account is ruined. Not sure what I should say anymore.

First of all your PCF is not ruined and nothing is irreparable in my opinion. I don't know what was said in PM's and quite frankly don't need to. As it has been presented to me based on both accounts there was a mistake on your end which you have acknowledged making and have the intent to fix. I can't provide much feedback on how to resolve the situation, however, a good place to start would be contacting @Johnny5 and @TX_Golf_N_Poker since those are the 2 people who would be most offended by the action and ask them how to fix it. We are a small community and I don't think anyone here will ostracize you for making a mistake and fixing it.

 

[jpietrella]

2021 is not Singapore's year.

 

[khp]

Not really my business, but I can't help it..did anyone actually obtain permission from Aria to use their design?

Fair question and jocularly ironic.


I don’t know @LeLe personally, but he has been kind and helpful to me in the past via PM. Not to kick him while he’s down, but he also has a history of frequent typos. Regardless, he’s willing to make it right and that’s what matters.

 

[TheOffalo]

First of all your PCF is not ruined and nothing is irreparable in my opinion. I don't know what was said in PM's and quite frankly don't need to. As it has been presented to me based on both accounts there was a mistake on your end which you have acknowledged making and have the intent to fix. I can't provide much feedback on how to resolve the situation, however, a good place to start would be contacting @Johnny5 and @TX_Golf_N_Poker since those are the 2 people who would be most offended by the action and ask them how to fix it. We are a small community and I don't think anyone here will ostracize you for making a mistake and fixing it.

Agreed! I've only been on the board for a blip compared to most, and I know @LeLe is relatively new too, but he's been polite and helpful in the comments he's made to me.

This sounds like a combo of bad timing (commenting very late in LeLe's time zone and then going to bed) and making a mistake in the writing that wasn't caught. I know done this plenty of times where I've typed out sentences a couple ways to find the right wording, and then forget to remove everything I wrote out previously and what was left was not at all what I intended.

(Also, not to make assumptions, but based on spelling and punctuation--and location--I'll guess that English is not the mother tongue, but I could be wrong.)

This does not mean I think it's okay that the order was placed without getting permission first; but sounds like LeLe's willing to try to make things right, even if it's after the fact...

 

[Himewad]

If I have learned only one thing since making a shit ton of dealer buttons over the past two years, it’s that people can be very protective of their artwork. Always ask permission. If they don’t give you permission, move on. You might even get that permission after waiting a bit. Most people are flattered when you ask, and just let you use it with no strings attached. Either way, it sounds like permission was requested, but when the response didn’t come right away, the request wasn’t followed up on. The mistake was trying to find a way around taking the proper channels.

edited to add that @LeLe has always been good to work with in my previous interactions with him. Sounds like he just got impatient / anxious and had a lapse of good judgement.

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

My biggest issue is that I reached out to @LeLe to find out how he got the chips and to find out why he didn't follow up with his request for permission. My hope was that I would get an apology and we would move to try to resolve the issue. Instead he lashed back and blamed me for not responding to his original inquiry. But because of that original inquiry, I know that he knew that he needed to get permission before he could use the art. Now he says he didn't think it was a big deal. Well then why did he reach out to me in the first place, and why did he then ignore my request to wait and have a conversation again in a few days when I wasn't quite so stacked up?

I'm less inclined to forgive (but not completely closed to it) because I feel like now the only reason he is sorry is because I outed him to the whole forum. In other words, he's not sorry for what he did, he's just sorry he got caught.