That sounds a little bizarre, if someones cheating why not assume it as all ill gotten gains? Seems fair.
If they are cheating. Then it shouldn't matter IMO.
-
This site contains affiliate links. If you choose to make a purchase after clicking a link, Poker Chip Forum may receive a commission at no additional cost to you. Thank you for your support!
Cheating allegations at Stones (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter BobbyFresh
- Start date
That sounds a little bizarre, if someones cheating why not assume it as all ill gotten gains? Seems fair.
If they are cheating. Then it shouldn't matter IMO.
Another thing I read, implied that this prohibition on suing for gambling losses predated legalized gambling in CA. That would make sense - there’s not a court in the country where up can sue your drug dealer - it’s the doctrine of “unclean hands” - if you get screwed doing dirty deeds, you’re on your own.
It also sounded like this precedent was upheld while gambling was legal in CA (though who knows about the specifics of that case) but that it might be appropriate for an appellate court to revisit that precedent.
It also sounded like this precedent was upheld while gambling was legal in CA (though who knows about the specifics of that case) but that it might be appropriate for an appellate court to revisit that precedent.
Anthony Martino
Royal Flush
Could Stones sue based on damages to their business/brand?
Something they can argue on appeal, for sure. But it seems the State’s attitude is to view all gamblers as degenerates who get what they deserve if cheated... If you’re gambling, whatever happens is your problem.
Anyway, here’s the link to the full decision and a screenshot of a key excerpt:
https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/58...ing Defendant_s Motion .pdf?ver=1591217961298
Yeah, but think about how courts operate. It's never about what's fair. It's about what you can prove. And if you lost $1,000 in a session, even if you can prove that he cheated, you can't prove that if he hadn't cheated, you wouldn't have lost $1,000.
They could try... But then all the ugly and damning details would be dragged out in court. I think they would prefer that this was considered old news.
Most people won’t read the decision and the casino and Postle can just misrepresent the decision as “we were found innocent by the judge” and few will know that is not what he ruled.
Kain8
Flush
Sobering but true. There is an abstract form of "justice" that will never be taken away. For the rest of his sniveling, rat-faced life, Mike Postle will have to look around everywhere like Tony Soprano does in the final scene within the diner.
That gives me a modicum of comfort.
Hey Mike Postle, I'm inviting you to a game at my house. And you would not mind if I wore my "special" glasses, would you? It's completely legit, I promise.
markleteenie
4 of a Kind
That's disappointing. But also sounds about right. 
Davism72
Flush
Perfectly describes just about everything right now.That's disappointing. But also sounds about right.
tabletalker7
Full House
It isn't about whether his gains were ill gotten, it is about your total losses and what would have happened if the ill gotten things did not occur.
WedgeRock
Royal Flush
I haven't read the Opinion, but...
If all the players except Mike Postle are playing poker and mid session, Postle comes in wearing a ski mask, robs the game taking everyone's chips and is later identified trying to cash them in... Everyone agrees Postle can be held civilly culpable (in addition to whatever criminal charges exist)? And let's say a Stones employee was in on it by calling Postle and letting him know when to strike and which entrances/exits to use. Maybe even that employee was to split the take with Postle. Everyone agrees that the employee could also be sued civilly (Stones is probably clear because the employee's illegal actions are outside the course and scope of his employment)?
So the only difference here is that Postle was also playing rather than just coming in and robbing the game?
Typically, in ruling on such a motion, the evidence must be construed in the light most favorable to the non-moving party (the Plaintiffs). At a minimum, I think there is a question of fact (the typical standard to survive a dispositive motion) as to whether the chips (money) were lost as a result of gambling rather than theft.
If all the players except Mike Postle are playing poker and mid session, Postle comes in wearing a ski mask, robs the game taking everyone's chips and is later identified trying to cash them in... Everyone agrees Postle can be held civilly culpable (in addition to whatever criminal charges exist)? And let's say a Stones employee was in on it by calling Postle and letting him know when to strike and which entrances/exits to use. Maybe even that employee was to split the take with Postle. Everyone agrees that the employee could also be sued civilly (Stones is probably clear because the employee's illegal actions are outside the course and scope of his employment)?
So the only difference here is that Postle was also playing rather than just coming in and robbing the game?
Typically, in ruling on such a motion, the evidence must be construed in the light most favorable to the non-moving party (the Plaintiffs). At a minimum, I think there is a question of fact (the typical standard to survive a dispositive motion) as to whether the chips (money) were lost as a result of gambling rather than theft.
Last edited:
Frogzilla
Straight Flush
I think it comes down to the damages. In the theft scenario it’s super trivial to see how much was stolen. In the “got a feed of the hole card” scenario, not so much. And apparently CA won’t have any of these speculative damage type stuff.
Good luck with appeals fellas
SpaceMonkey420
Full House
Played with Mike many times. Nor cal low level player. Mostly played thunder valley casino down the road. They have all the entry level tourneys. Funny to watch him go from losing all the low level multi tables to turning into a cash god on the stream. Jonathan the director is a crook too. I’ve ran games for years, first time I met him he wanted me to move a game there. All I could think of when he was talking was “perpetrator.” -
SixSpeedFury
Full House
Looks like wants to tell his side of the story.
https://www.pokernews.com/news/2020/09/mike-postle-justin-kuraitis-break-silences-37960.htm
https://www.pokernews.com/news/2020/09/mike-postle-justin-kuraitis-break-silences-37960.htm
markleteenie
4 of a Kind
Hard to believe they still maintain innocence in all of this.
Anthony Martino
Royal Flush
Unbelievable that he's going to not only get away with it, but now gets a documentary to profit from, and his accomplice is still employed at Stones
Definetly a venue I never intend to play at
WedgeRock
Royal Flush
Postle started COVID.
Mr Winberg
Full House
...and then went viral!
grebe
Full House
I dont watch the stream, nor is there any chance I would ever play with this guy since we live in different worlds...so no dog in the fight. I have heard stuff just in passing, but have never heard any hard evidence, like phone records or an inside witness. Is there any substantial evidence besides some quirky plays and things he said in an interview that make you say hmmmm.... that implicate him?
So, if you all were betting folks.....what would be your odds that you would take to him being guilty or innocent? 2:1? 5:1?
By all means, I am not saying he didnt do anything. Im just curious about the case. I know the poker community wants him to be guilty.
So, if you all were betting folks.....what would be your odds that you would take to him being guilty or innocent? 2:1? 5:1?
By all means, I am not saying he didnt do anything. Im just curious about the case. I know the poker community wants him to be guilty.
WedgeRock
Royal Flush
I won't pretend that I've watched all the footage, or dissected every hand, but he made some very peculiar plays... coupled with the fact that he seemed to consult his phone mid-hand (crotch-theory optimal) and I recall a screen shot of his phone (from a distance) that seemed to indicate he was receiving hole cards.
All that sounds pretty damning.
All that sounds pretty damning.
Legend5555
Full House
I've watched nearly all of it. If he wasn't cheating, I'd be absolutely blown away.
Frogzilla
Straight Flush
It’s >90%, maybe >99% that he cheated.
Getting a court educated enough to come to that assessment, and then calculate and award damages under CA law is the tough part.
Getting a court educated enough to come to that assessment, and then calculate and award damages under CA law is the tough part.
I've played with him and watched hours of the evidence. I'd lay a decent amount of money at probably 50:1 on his guilt.
I also can't believe Justin (who I knew a little bit) is still maintaining both his and Mike's innocence. That's about as damning as anything that's come out of this.
Also incredibly damning is the one site he cites as analyzing the actual data just so happens to be owned, or had been owned by one Mike Postle.
https://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/s...uot/page16&s=091d085489ff3ffb952c6b6e0e7f1435
This open letter is not exactly winning me over on Justin's innocence.
boltonguy
Flush
It is just unreal that these guys are getting away with this. At the very least they will be pariahs in the industry.
Create an account or login to comment
You must be a member in order to leave a comment
Create account
Create an account and join our community. It's easy!
Log in
Already have an account? Log in here.
