Chip Picking (3 Viewers)

[MegaTon44]

** Tl;dr below if you want to skip the incessant babble **

In order to segue into my narrative, I wanted to begin with 2 quick stories:

1. Many months ago, I found a NJ Craigslist ad depicting a nice custom table for sale for $4000. In the drawer of that table were 1400 WTH&C chips, and they were a free addition if you bought the table. At the time, these chips were a snap purchase from many PCF members at $3 each. In communicating with the seller, I learned that she was a recent divorcee and just trying to recoup some money after a bad divorce. Instead of offering $1000 for the chips (which she would have accepted), I told her they were worth much more. I offered to broker a deal with PCF members for free, but only if she sold the lot for no more than $3000 (a great deal at the time). She thanked me and then gave the chips to her dad.
2. A few weeks ago, I saw a Craigslist ad in the Tampa area where someone was selling a poker table/chairs/chips combo (typical listing). Well, I looked closer and saw about 1500 Paulson hotstamped solids (some Starburst, some I couldn't distinguish). Instead of offering $0.10 per chip, I decided to tell him that he should split the chips from the sale, take some good pictures, then sell them for $0.40-$0.50 each. He thanked me and never changed his listing.

This leads me to my point that even when I try to be considerate of non-PCF members when it comes to chips, the advice hasn't been appreciated (to the point of being heeded). Therefore, I decided that I'm not going out of my way help a random stranger sell their chips for market prices, rather I would prefer to bring those chips (and savings) into our community.

Last week, I sold a 928 chip Bahamia set that I bought off a seller on Kjiji (basically a Canadian Craigslist) for a nice profit, and by most accounts, a very good price. Granted, I had to send a material amount of money to a stranger and hope that I didn't get screwed over, but it happened to work out. Well, that money immediately went towards a deductible that I had to pay for my dog's emergency back surgery this week, so I couldn't enjoy it, but it certainly helped.

Essentially, I spend 1 to 2 hours a day scouring North America ads on eBay, Craigslist, LetGo, OfferUp, Kijiji, etc trying to find chip treasures. Aside from eBay, the rest are very risky purchases. More recently, I am purchasing specifically with the intention of bringing the chips into this community. Collecting chips and interacting with you fine folks on PCF brings a tremendous amount of joy to my life and I would never want to offend you with flipping chips for a profit. I guess my thought is that if I put the time/money (and assume risk) into finding nice chips for good prices outside the community and sell to the community for good prices, it doesn't seem too predatory to PCF. Thoughts?

Tl;dr - Am I an asshole for buying chips outside of PCF and selling them on PCF for a profit (but for good prices)?

Thanks!

 

[jbutler]

Nothing wrong with doing this imo. Obviously you're getting paid for the labor of scraping all those sites for chips which is 100% fine.

 

[TheBigTater]

What you're doing is perfectly alright and not what I consider chip flipping.

 

[ssanel54]

Short answer - No. Finding and buying chips outside of PCF and bringing them to PCF for sale is perfectly fine and often appreciated.

I think the type of Flipping that gets people upset, is when you buy bargain chips within the community with the intent of flipping them for a profit back to the community. This is what can often happen at Chiproom sales where they are initially sold at a steep discount, or sometimes just at regular M2M sales when They are listed at a great price as a favor, and then someone exploits it.

 

[Psypher1000]

I think the type of Flipping that gets people upset, is when you buy bargain chips within the community with the intent of flipping them for a profit back to the community.

Yup, this. If you find a good deal outside of the community and bring it here for a profit, good on you for finding chips and bringing them into our fold. Flipping chips from the community right back to that same community, however...that's bothersome (and now ban-worthy from future Chip Room sales to boot).

 

[TheChipVault]

This is call 'Chip Picking' not Flipping.

 

[MegaTon44]

Thank you so much to everyone who responded. You are all my friends and I would never want to disrespect you, Tommy, or PCF by profiting in an unsavory way. However, "chip picking" (thanks Jim, I like that) seems acceptable, so you may continue to see random listings in the future (few BJ ones coming first, so stay tuned).

Your feedback is truly appreciated.

 

[DJ Mack]

Nothing wrong with doing this imo. Obviously you're getting paid for the labor of scraping all those sites for chips which is 100% fine.

Labor and assuming all the risk. In the long run the assumption of risk is not a free exercise but lots of folks have trouble putting a price on it in the context of single events.

If you sell at cost or just a bit above it only takes one bad deal to wipe you out and put you in the net loss category. It might take a year, two, or five before you encounter that bastard but it will happen.

 

[bentax1978]

Tl;dr - Am I an asshole for buying chips outside of PCF and selling them on PCF for a profit (but for good prices)?

No, you're absolutely not an asshole in any way, shape, or form based on what you describe.

Now if you're an asshole for other reasons, unrelated to buying and selling chips, that's a completely separate issue

 

[Payback]

Totally different than buying from the community and selling for a profit.

Note: Not a fan of letting g people know they see underselling their goods. It's up to them to know what they got and ultimately prevents someone else from getting a really good deal if you mark it up some. Also, once you disclose that it's worth a lot there I no guarantee that they will sell at prices you "agree" to.

 

[upNdown]

I'd say you've been lucky, too.
I've been scouring craigslist for all of New England, daily, for 3 months.
I've seen real chips exactly once, and those were at market price.

 

[chkmte]

This is exactly what I was doing when I joined PCF earlier this summer - and I was crucified on the highest hill by many members.

I believe this practice is absolutely acceptable and should not be frowned on. It's the only fair thing to do ... sell them for what someone is willing to pay.

What YOU paid for them, be it very cheap or at an extensive cost is irrelevant. Things change, chip values change and that's the way it is.

When a guy buys outside of PCF there's increased risk. When risk increases, so should the reward. It's very simple - to me anyway.

Good luck and thanks for trying to hunt down all the chips that are out there.

 

[upNdown]

The biggest problem I have with flipping is it discourages giving good deals to other members.
I'd love to list some chips below market value (as long as I'm not losing money) and end up making the day of another member who's going to use them and love them.

But if I did that and then a flipper flipping flipped then, I'd feel like a tool.

 

[bentax1978]

This is exactly what I was doing when I joined PCF earlier this summer - and I was crucified on the highest hill by many members.

Without trying to cause trouble or rehash old issues, I think the subtle difference in your case was that a forum member posted a link to a good deal on chips with the intention of giving other PCF members within the community an opportunity to buy the chips at a good price. So when you (as a new member who joined PCF less than two week prior) bought them with the sole intention of reselling them, it didn't go over well with a lot of people.

http://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/2000-paulson-chips-900.12254/#post-193860

 

[Max D]

I see nothing wrong in what you described, you actually try to make an effort with people who dont know what they have which is very nice to them,

 

[jbutler]

The biggest problem I have with flipping is it discourages giving good deals to other members.
I'd love to list some chips below market value (as long as I'm not losing money) and end up making the day of another member who's going to use them and love them.

As you get more involved in the community you'll develop relationships with other members and give and get plenty of good deals through those relationships without ever posting or viewing a classified.

Then when you want to offer a "deal," you can offer it to a group of people you trust will give you the right of first refusal at your original sales price if they want to dump them in the future.

 

[slisk250]

Hi Mega,

I'm happy to hear somebody talk about not being motivated by profit. I've gone on the record here as a person who despises flippers and dislikes the auction format that extracts full value. I've softened a bit as some situations for people differ, but still dislike when people here buy chips and then sell at a profit when they never intended to keep and play them at all. Most of the big lots I've sold last summer were via PM.

I sure hope that the same Horseshoe (some of the eBay sellers and prices offered make me sick) flipper types don't jump on your deals with the same thought in mind. I've come to the reality that the only way to offer great prices on chips and get them to those who really want to get them in play is to do it via PM.

I pay attention to who is collecting what I have and who the flippers are. Just reach out to those in need via PM. You will gain a friend and mucho chip karma. I've got some nice things I might just sell next summer and nobody will even know when it happens.

 

[MD Mike]

What you're doing is only acceptable if you sell me your treasures

 

[slisk250]

Short answer - No. Finding and buying chips outside of PCF and bringing them to PCF for sale is perfectly fine and often appreciated.

I think the type of Flipping that gets people upset, is when you buy bargain chips within the community with the intent of flipping them for a profit back to the community. This is what can often happen at Chiproom sales where they are initially sold at a steep discount, or sometimes just at regular M2M sales when They are listed at a great price as a favor, and then someone exploits it.

...and Scott knows what he is talking about. I reached out to him and he sold me a rack I wanted leaving about 75 on the table for sure. Great guy!

 

[slisk250]

Thank you so much to everyone who responded. You are all my friends and I would never want to disrespect you, Tommy, or PCF by profiting in an unsavory way. However, "chip picking" (thanks Jim, I like that) seems acceptable, so you may continue to see random listings in the future (few BJ ones coming first, so stay tuned).

Your feedback is truly appreciated.

...and Megas inbox is now full.

 

[pltrgyst]

Gee, I hate to be the outlier here, but:

I have no problem with you buying and selling as you please, anywhere you want. But if you roam sites like Craigslist, advising sellers that they should raise their asking prices for *any reason at all*, then IMO, you're a 24-carat asshole.

 

[MD Mike]

Gee, I hate to be the outlier here, but:

I have no problem with you buying and selling as you please, anywhere you want. But if you roam sites like Craigslist, advising sellers that they should raise their asking prices for *any reason at all*, then IMO, you're a 24-carat asshole.

I actually see both points of view.

I think @MegaTon44 has a heart of gold and in my dealings with him that's what I consistently see.

However, on the flip side, I can understand why you wouldn't want to tell someone that they are underpricing their goods. If we did that everywhere, we would never have bargains

 

[detroitdad]

Gee, I hate to be the outlier here, but:

I have no problem with you buying and selling as you please, anywhere you want. But if you roam sites like Craigslist, advising sellers that they should raise their asking prices for *any reason at all*, then IMO, you're a 24-carat asshole.

I disagree. If the dude wants to be a nice guy I encourage it. Good for you M

 

[BiGGyT]

All I know is I better not see Blue Mountain Casino chips for sale at $1 each

I don't mind a flip, it is how I got my first set. A gouge on the other hand, not a fan of. I am in a "for profit" business, no matter what my clients like to believe. I think my time is worth something, so do not devalue your time spent searching, you could be earning wages or increasing quality of life elsewhere. There is fraternity here and in the community, and usually the ones I will make any profit on are those outside the community, when and if I sell chips. Other than the ones I sold @MegaTon44 earlier this year and a couple of racks here and there, all I have done for years is buy, so I am not actively flipping. I do like a bargain, and when I see one, I will snatch it. Maybe I will keep them, maybe trade, maybe send them to Canada in @Gear 's over-weighted back pack for a year deciding how many to mill and what inlay to put in them.

(Speaking of which, Chris, maybe make some 25cent horseshoe chips and gouge everyone who bought all those horseshoe chips that should have rightfully been mine),

but I digress....

Time is money, do not be ashamed to make money from your time. Risk is even more reason you need to make money.

BUT, don't be a asshole, because assholes just shit on everything.

 

[BPTDirector]

Making a little something for your time isn't bad, but I've seen gouging here and won't mention the sets or names, that have made me ill because 2 or 3 or 4 times what you just paid yesterday during a member sale just don't seem like you are being a good neighbor since you obviously bought more than you needed just to be a profiteer on fellow forum members that got shut out by your overbuying action.

Ive said something to this point and have been chastised in the past for being too harsh so I'll just leave it alone because it seems Jim is taking care of it this time around and I congratulate him for it.

Good luck to all on Black Friday - sounds like an epic sale is upon us. I will be working that day where they have an ultra fast internet connection and hope to be quick enough on the draw to get something.....

 

[rowlin]

I don't care one way or the other. That said, may I call you Flippy?

 

[ssanel54]

I don't care one way or the other. That said, may I call you Flippy?

It should be noted that Chip Flipping used to be kind of fun and commonplace. You might make a few bucks on one set, and lose a few on the next, but the intent was always to be able to play with a variety of sets, not an investment strategy.

 

[Aaron]

Didn't "the community" breed all the "flippers"??


I flipped chips I found on Craigslist. They where the first Paulsons I owned. There where other chips involved in the purchase (chipco I think), but the truth is I paid about $40 for the Paulsons. I did hang in to them for awhile. They where not playable other than for a little Chinese poker. When I decided to let them go I did so here. The people that appreciate them the most pay the most. I wasn't out to rip anyone off with my pricing but I was jumpstarting my chipping bankroll.

Wait.... did I flip?

Prices have since rose and will continue to do so as long as people will pay. I choose not to pay insane (imho) prices. It may sound crazy but Jims attempt at giving everyone a chance to get in on the recent sale also created a demand because the big spenders couldn't get their fill.

I do appreciate the sale and was able to get a set of primaries. I understand why there was a limit and I'm in no way suggesting Jim did anything wrong. More of a "no good deed...." thing.

 

[bentax1978]

but the truth is I paid about $40 for the Paulsons. I did hang in to them for awhile. They where not playable other than for a little Chinese poker. When I decided to let them go I did so here. The people that appreciate them the most pay the most. I wasn't out to rip anyone off with my pricing but I was jumpstarting my chipping bankroll.

Wait.... did I flip?

And by people, you must mean bentax. Lol.

Kidding aside, I wouldn't call what you did flipping at all. I had to PM you for a solid week before you agreed to sell them to me. I knew how much you paid for the chips, and I was willing to pay a huge premium to pry them out of your hands.

 

[Aaron]

I wasn't going to put your name out there. I was very new then btw. More of a lurker, but my packing was on point.