Right, so that’s why I’m hesitant to write it off as just another flu. Not that I want to shelter in place either. But it seems worth consideration.
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COVID and live poker, again (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Taghkanic
- Start date
Chippy McChiperson
Straight Flush
I’ve seen quite a few people at Maryland Live (and 1 person in a home game) mask up, and I haven’t seen anyone give any of them crap for it. I do live in a liberal state though, so your results may vary.
I can’t speak for Marylanders, but personally I don’t resist masks for fear of getting crap. I resist masks because they suck. They’re uncomfortable and they interfere with communication.
Yeah, I can see that.
My take on masks is the efficacy. If you read the OSHA requirements for masks, say for example dust and small particulates. The mask guidelines provided by the CDC wouldn’t meet the OSHA requirements for mowing the lawn - lol.
Fit is everything, and with people pulling them down to eat and drink, especially at a poker game. I just don’t see any practical mitigation.
Dr’s in the OR don’t touch their masks, much less take them off during a procedure.
If someone wants to wear one, sure fine, OK. But I just kinda chuckle every time they pull it down to scarf down a hot dog and beer.
OP
OP
I’m in upstate New York. Generally leans anti-mask among poker players though not overwhelmingly.
OP
OP
I actually live at the end of a dead end road in the midst of a forest that I manage. So, check!
But of course I do go out into the world.
The big difference that you are conveniently smudging over? That taking 3 minutes at self-checkout at 7:15 am in a big but almost empty supermarket with 25-foot ceilings is way less risky than sitting for 500 minutes straight in a small room with 8-9 degenerates.
It not only ignores the obvious time and space difference, but the way the virus spreads.
Sure, it’s possible that if one highly contagious person coughs a single time in your face while you’re mouth-breathing, you could catch it. (Pro tip: You should fear™ anyone who coughs straight into your open mouth a lot.)
But the research I’ve read is that infection is most likely if you’re breathing air containing a high viral load for a sustained period of time.
Even sitting in a restaurant for an hour is going to be less risky than your typical poker game if there’s a sick person in both places. Eight hours playing cards in close proximity vs one hour across the room.
Honestly poker might be one of the worst possible situations for transmission, after a county jail holding pen.
So ... I will repeat - it seems I repeat myself a lot to you - your personal dilemna about playing live poker leaves you with three options:
- you stop playing live poker altogether
- you play less live poker, or change your table facial garment routine
- you continue playing live poker with no changes
I've had COVID every year since it was released. The first time was during the initial pandemic, and each time after has been due to either travel or a meetup. I'm in the if you're sick, stay home camp. I find it annoying that people who are sick continue to go out in public or to gatherings and infect others. Be it COVID, the flu, or a cold - I don't want your sickness.
No, not really.
The mechanisms behind a virus that makes it capable of infection are pretty clear cut.
Modifications of viruses tend to be oriented at its genome, because you might be trying to insert a sequence that will cause a host to make certain proteins, etc.
A great example is getting bacteria to produce human insulin by inserting the insulin gene into a virus capable of infecting the bacteria, then cause it to produce insulin without killing it. And then as the bacteria replicate, successive generations keep the ability to produce insulin.
Okay, but I wasn’t speculating just about infectibility. I was also referring to the way this one mutates and the different ways it affects us and how cumulative infections might affect us.
It would be almost impossible to determine these things in a lab, unless you were infecting organisms that have a naturally high reproductive rate, like bacteria or amoebae or algae. Mammalian vectors, just about never.
You can only study and make assumptions about these things when you see how it behaves in the wild i.e. in a widely infected population.
OP
OP
Oh, thanks for letting me know that I make my own decisions. Wasn’t sure if I was allowed to, seeing as I’m over here cowering in fear and all.
The purpose of this thread is not just to state the options that I already know about, but to see if others are making adjustments of their own, have novel solutions, have a good mask or other suggestions like effective air purifiers, are selecting casinos over home games or vice-versa, etc.
It’s wasn’t really meant for the MONGOL BIG & STRONG, NO NEED MASK, EAT COVID FOR LUNCH crowd. Sorry but thanks for keeping the thread alive I guess.
I think all he’s saying is it’s just not something that takes up headspace for a lot of people anymore.
OP
OP
Interesting whenever people have plenty of lungspace for telling others what shouldn’t be taking up headspace, mmm?
OP
OP
Now on Day 6, still testing positive despite feeling almost completely recovered. I know some people would have resumed normal life by now but my preference is to follow the more cautious guidance.
Anyway, here is my provisional plan, subject to adjustment depending on efficacy, what happens with the virus in the next few years, etc.:
1) Play primarily in the game I host myself, where I can select the players, remind people of expectations, and somewhat improve the air quality (see below). I took a look at the calendar for the remainder of the year and increased my game nights from 7 to 9 to make up for some lost play elsewhere.
2) Stop attending one game I had been playing 1-2 times monthly, due to the poor ventilation, tight space and cavalier player pool, all making me less comfortable continuing to sit there.
3) Work with the hosts of two other games — good friends who are not going to resent the conversation — to see if they will consider taking a couple of modest steps to reduce risks in their venues (reminding players about not playing sick or known to be exposed to a sick person, adding an air purifier, beinging in fresh air or exhausting interior air, etc., per my own game’s plan below). If they don’t want to make changes, that’s cool, but I am not likely to keep going.
4) Avoid casino poker except for occasional large tournaments held in bigger, high-ceilinged, industrially-ventilated spaces. I’m resuming research about the very best masks for playing these events to mitigate some risk. Since these are not social games and are 98% players I am not likely to see again, I’ll care less about any grief received… Not ideal, but for the potential of bigger scores I can take on more risk. (I did not get sick during 4-5 days of intense play at a WSOP circuit event last winter in such a venue, though that is highly anecdotal evidence I know.)
5) For my own game, I will be (a) installing myself a new two-way in-wall fan which can either bring in fresh outdoor air or exhaust indoor air, for times when opening windows/screen doors is not an option; and (b) investing in an industrial-grade air filtration device.
The one I ordered is Coway’s business-grade top of the line model, which should be able to completely filter the air in my entire 900-square foot poker room every 15 minutes. Top-rated by Consumer Reports, and actually built for a room twice the size. They claim to have tested it on aerosolized COVID with 98% elimination within 2 minutes, but it’s possible I’m just a sucker for the claim. Worth a try. Not a bad thing to have anyway.
6) Wearing a well-fitting N95 mask anytime I am uncomfortable with the room/player/game situation. During the pandemic I wore various types of these, covered by a black nylon gaiter. While mask utility is hotly-debated, I did not contract COVID as long as I was masking. It was only after I resumed playing live poker unmasked that I caught it for the first time — from a guy next to me at a Rivers casino who was not coughing or sneezing but looked like he was going to puke on the table any minute the whole game FWIW.
I’ll also get a box of disposable N95s for anyone who might want one at my place, just in case.
Still open to other suggestions and even critiques of the above. None of this guarantees anything, I know. But I would like at least to try my best to avoid losing 7–10 days out of every year to airborne illness. Will see if this helps.
Anyway, here is my provisional plan, subject to adjustment depending on efficacy, what happens with the virus in the next few years, etc.:
1) Play primarily in the game I host myself, where I can select the players, remind people of expectations, and somewhat improve the air quality (see below). I took a look at the calendar for the remainder of the year and increased my game nights from 7 to 9 to make up for some lost play elsewhere.
2) Stop attending one game I had been playing 1-2 times monthly, due to the poor ventilation, tight space and cavalier player pool, all making me less comfortable continuing to sit there.
3) Work with the hosts of two other games — good friends who are not going to resent the conversation — to see if they will consider taking a couple of modest steps to reduce risks in their venues (reminding players about not playing sick or known to be exposed to a sick person, adding an air purifier, beinging in fresh air or exhausting interior air, etc., per my own game’s plan below). If they don’t want to make changes, that’s cool, but I am not likely to keep going.
4) Avoid casino poker except for occasional large tournaments held in bigger, high-ceilinged, industrially-ventilated spaces. I’m resuming research about the very best masks for playing these events to mitigate some risk. Since these are not social games and are 98% players I am not likely to see again, I’ll care less about any grief received… Not ideal, but for the potential of bigger scores I can take on more risk. (I did not get sick during 4-5 days of intense play at a WSOP circuit event last winter in such a venue, though that is highly anecdotal evidence I know.)
5) For my own game, I will be (a) installing myself a new two-way in-wall fan which can either bring in fresh outdoor air or exhaust indoor air, for times when opening windows/screen doors is not an option; and (b) investing in an industrial-grade air filtration device.
The one I ordered is Coway’s business-grade top of the line model, which should be able to completely filter the air in my entire 900-square foot poker room every 15 minutes. Top-rated by Consumer Reports, and actually built for a room twice the size. They claim to have tested it on aerosolized COVID with 98% elimination within 2 minutes, but it’s possible I’m just a sucker for the claim. Worth a try. Not a bad thing to have anyway.
6) Wearing a well-fitting N95 mask anytime I am uncomfortable with the room/player/game situation. During the pandemic I wore various types of these, covered by a black nylon gaiter. While mask utility is hotly-debated, I did not contract COVID as long as I was masking. It was only after I resumed playing live poker unmasked that I caught it for the first time — from a guy next to me at a Rivers casino who was not coughing or sneezing but looked like he was going to puke on the table any minute the whole game FWIW.
I’ll also get a box of disposable N95s for anyone who might want one at my place, just in case.
Still open to other suggestions and even critiques of the above. None of this guarantees anything, I know. But I would like at least to try my best to avoid losing 7–10 days out of every year to airborne illness. Will see if this helps.
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I found it more interesting that you asked for suggestions, criticized reasonable suggestions with lots of insults and mocking, and then ended up taking some of those suggestions.
OP
OP
I didn’t mock any reasonable suggestions. Just the few dumb ones.
(Anyway, “you’re living in fear” isn’t a suggestion.)
My opinions only, but based on background knowledge and front line experience in health care.
We're extremely lucky that Omicron variants and subvariants evolved as soon as they did. It is a natural evolutionary process for viruses to become more contagious and less deadly. This one did so in what I would describe as 'record time'. They outcompeted the deadlier strains and this is why the burden on health care from Covid infections nowadays is orders of magnitude lower than when it first appeared.
Unfortunately, mask wearing does not seem to be nearly as protective as it used to be, as wastewater testing shows that there was much more viral spread in the big cities than was thought, likely due to asymptomatic transmission despite common precautionary measures. It does not mean that masks failed alone, especially if it's the only precautions taken, but it has convinced me that mask mandates in this new day and age would be ineffective (unless newer, more infectious, and more deadly strains develop, which can be at any time).
There are still people coming into hospital, and they do contract Covid, but it is no longer the driver of very bad Respiratory symptoms that it once was. At my little hospital, I estimate that maybe 10% of positives are showing any symptoms, and I don't remember anybody being transferred to ICU on the basis of worsening Covid pneumonia in the last year.
We're extremely lucky that Omicron variants and subvariants evolved as soon as they did. It is a natural evolutionary process for viruses to become more contagious and less deadly. This one did so in what I would describe as 'record time'. They outcompeted the deadlier strains and this is why the burden on health care from Covid infections nowadays is orders of magnitude lower than when it first appeared.
Unfortunately, mask wearing does not seem to be nearly as protective as it used to be, as wastewater testing shows that there was much more viral spread in the big cities than was thought, likely due to asymptomatic transmission despite common precautionary measures. It does not mean that masks failed alone, especially if it's the only precautions taken, but it has convinced me that mask mandates in this new day and age would be ineffective (unless newer, more infectious, and more deadly strains develop, which can be at any time).
There are still people coming into hospital, and they do contract Covid, but it is no longer the driver of very bad Respiratory symptoms that it once was. At my little hospital, I estimate that maybe 10% of positives are showing any symptoms, and I don't remember anybody being transferred to ICU on the basis of worsening Covid pneumonia in the last year.
This is great to hear and is what we were all hoping for years back.
Hopefully it's many decades before another global pandemic.
You know, as ridiculous as it sounds, you might as well hit all the high risk games for a few more months, because you’ll have that natural immunity that will keep you safe for a little while.
Just beware, we don't have a great grasp of just how long the acquired immunity from recent infection lasts. For some it could be as little as 4 months. For others they can have 80-90% protection at 10 months. From what I can tell, this is rough data from published epidemiology literature.
Yeah I wouldn’t take medical advice from me either.
OP
OP
I’ve seen estimates as low as three months.
And known a couple people (mainly early in the pandemic) who had two episodes in an even shorter timespan. Which could have been one case that flared back up a month later or something I guess.
Doesn’t seem like even those on the ground can say for sure. A close relative is a doctor who sold his private practice and now mostly works in a hospital; he has had it many times despite strict precautions. Because of an unrelated condition, he sometimes continues to test positive for weeks.
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… Anyway, even if my air purifier proves unnecessary eventually for COVID, my poker room will always need a Fart Removal Machine
Actually, this can be true of anyone. We generally ignore any positive Covid test results within 2-3 months of a known infection and recovery. The PCR process is just so sensitive.
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Found this fairly technical Johns Hopkins article (still readable for a layman like me), which contains details about how the virus has been mutating, alternating between more and less infectious, and how they are having trouble keeping vaccines current with the swift succession of variants. Also about general consensuses on transmissibility, duration of infectiousness, etc.
https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2024/what-to-know-about-covid-flirt-variants
Current ones are collectively referred to as FLiRT variants. A bit too cutesy for my taste.
Mike mac
4 of a Kind
Himewad, you are smoking hot!
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