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Explain the Wynn Chip Hype to Me Like I'm a 4 Year Old (6 Viewers)

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Chippy McChiperson said:
Seems like the indentation for the inlay is closer to the center of the chip than the Wynn Tourney set, does Paulson have multiple versions of the plain mold?
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Yes, they have (at least) a 39mm and the oversize (47? 50?) used on The Winner Club chips.
I have Paulson/GPI manufacturer advertising chips on their plain mold. (Unlike ASM's plain mold, Paulson's plain mold has a recessed middle and a relatively thin rim, just like these Wynn chips.)
 
The 50mm oversized BCC Grand Cardroom group buy was on a plain mold also for all chips produced.

I've never seen a plain mold Paulson or BCC chip in the 39mm size but have only been in this hobby for 13 years now.

They are awesome looking chips, I like them a lot. I like MAPES and a ton of others too. But as has been said already once they cost more than the most outrageous spots I could ever think of on a set of custom CPC's it's custom for me all the way.

By the way - when I bought my custom ASM's 10 years ago 6a14 spots were only $1.10 a chip so prices for custom chips have risen almost at the same rate as Paulson sets have.

I would love to see action shots also, of these on my table. But sadly not in my future unless I score big on the lottery.
 
monkeydog said:
Ironically after reading this post I saw this classified.

http://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/paulson-´s-palms.13541/
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Interesting. It seems like the Paulson No-Molds people are posting are all promotional type chips. Do we know for a fact that these are "Wynn Tournament Prototypes"? The no-mold raises the question, as does the quantity. Would you really need a few thousand "prototypes" to decide if you want to order something? It seems like that's a huge expense just to test out a chip, especially when 10 or 20 samples would do the trick.

I also stumbled upon this eBay auction from February that called them "Play Day" chips, which again indicates some association with a promotional event. Is there any more information on what the Wynn Play Day is/was? Is it an internal promotion? Is it a public event? Looks like it was discussed here at PCF as well.

Curiouser, and curiouser... did anyone ever get any definitive info on the purpose of these chips?
 
Def not used in a Wynn casino tournament. That requires prior NGC approval.
 
BGinGA said:
Def not used in a Wynn casino tournament. That requires prior NGC approval.
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Agreed. I just find the prototype argument to be a little suspect... no one spends $20,000 on prototypes. These are looking more and more like promotional event chips... wish we could get more info on that event though. I'm sure chip owners would like to know as well.
 
In the other Wynn thread I remember someone posting that these chips were purchased by the Wynn family for a private tournament. I have no idea if this is true.
FWIW my personal threshold on these would be around $2 each.
 
Poker Zombie said:
So if you don't have the tax returns, The claim
is itself disingenuous.

I know you're probably an honest guy selling off a part of a chip set that he doesn't need to help mitigate the costs of building an awesome set. No problem there. However, I will always stick up for the chipping community and am now obligated to point out:
  • A man tries to make a sale of some nice chips.
  • That man posts an untrue statement to claim that these chips used to belong to the Wynn.
  • There is a factual claim that the Wynn could never, ever use these chips in casino play.
I find it unlikely that a business like the Wynn would waste money buying a set of chips that they could never use. Even allowing them anywhere near the casino would be a terrible idea, for fear that they were accidently put out on the floor and the casino gets fined by the gaming commission.

The only "proof" that we have indicating that there are even prototypes is a page from the Chipguide, which also indicates prototypes were made on the Sun Mold - which these were not.

So yes, these are nice chips. But the evidence is stacked in the favor indicating that these are knock-offs. For that reason, I do not understand the hype. If people are getting hyped because they think these were from the Wynn, I feel that they are being misled by the seller. If they are getting hyped because they find them to be one of many Holy Grails in their cupboard of grails, then it makes perfect sence.
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I think we'll have to agree to disagree then. I think the odds that these were not commissioned by The Wynn Casino, or someone with the rights to their logo (AKA Steve and Elaine Wynn) has to be extremely close to zero. Let me ask a few questions, each of which would have to be true to support your hypothesis.

1) What do you think the odds are that Paulson/GPI would make a set of chips using the Wynn logo for anyone other than the Wynn Casino? My guess is that it's pretty close to zero. I assume David Spragg would agree with that assessment.

2) What do you think the odds are that BCC would make a set of chips using the Wynn logo for anyone other than the Wynn Casino? Again, I place this pretty close to zero.

3) Assuming we've crossed both of the above hurdles, what do you think the odds are that BCC would make this set for the non Wynn individual using several different options for the 100 chip with the EXACT SAME inlay artwork AT THE SAME TIME that Paulson did this? Note that BCC and Paulson were competing companies at the time these chips were commissioned.

I place this parlay so close to zero that I feel comfortable stating "I sure as shit guarantee that these were commissioned by The Wynn". What their intended purpose was for these chips is up for debate, but that they were commissioned by The Wynn, in my opinion, is not.

Now, let me ask this question. What do you think the odds are that these didn't show up as a business expense on The Wynn's tax return in the year they were commissioned?

If you think the answer to that last question is anything other than 'very close to 100%', then we have very different approaches to problem solving.
 
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mike32 said:
In the other Wynn thread I remember someone posting that these chips were purchased by the Wynn family for a private tournament. I have no idea if this is true. FWIW my personal threshold on these would be around $2 each.
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This would make sense... and may actually add to the value of the chips. Private Wynn Family Chips? I think that's pretty cool. More so than maybe-maybenot used wonky tourney chips.
 
mike32 said:
In the other Wynn thread I remember someone posting that these chips were purchased by the Wynn family for a private tournament. I have no idea if this is true.
FWIW my personal threshold on these would be around $2 each.
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justsomedude said:
This would make sense... and may actually add to the value of the chips. Private Wynn Family Chips? I think that's pretty cool. More so than maybe-maybenot used wonky tourney chips.
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Ya, I believe the hypothesis behind that was that they were commissioned for some sort of "Play Day" event in NYC. Definitely possible, I think.
 
If you're a casino licensee, which is what you need to be to buy from Paulson, is there ever truly such a thing as a private tournament? It would seem to me that the NGC would have oversight interest in anything done by Wynn the corporation (i.e. the licensee). Wynn, the family, has no rights to the logo.
 
RainmanTrail said:
I think we'll have to agree to disagree then. I think the odds that these were not commissioned by The Wynn Casino, or someone with the rights to their logo (AKA Steve and Elaine Wynn) has to be extremely close to zero.
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I agree with you - these are definitely Wynn commissioned chips. Looks like Apache even posted some confirmation in that other thread.

I think the only question is what the chips' original purpose was. Seems like prototype and casino tournament use can be scratched off... leaving promotional or Wynn Family private events. Wish we had more info. :(

DJ Mack said:
If you're a casino licensee, which is what you need to be to buy from Paulson, is there ever truly such a thing as a private tournament? It would seem to me that the NGC would have oversight interest in anything done by Wynn the corporation (i.e. the licensee). Wynn, the family, has no rights to the logo.
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I think by "private tournament" we're talking about a promotional event. Similar to a company's "Casino Night," type event. You can hold a Casino Night in areas where gambling is illegal, just like I'm sure Wynn can make "promotional event chips" without upsetting NGC or Paulson.
 
I wouldn't write off prototypes as an option simply because there were a few thousand made. It's plausible that they may have wanted to see what they all looked like in stacks and on a table. However, I do like the promotional chips argument better than the prototypes argument for this reason.
 
justsomedude said:
Seems like prototype and casino tournament use can be scratched off...
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I'm actually still leaning towards Gear labels on china clay rejects that were found in a dumpster. Obvs. ;)

Screw all this talk @justsomedude , ain't nobody got time for this, it's Von Miller day and I keep waiting for news of the contract that will make him a Bronco for life....hopefully. :D
 
BPTDirector said:
Well none of us are insiders here so no matter what is being said, without proper documentation, not one of us can 'Be Sure' of anything.
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Perhaps, but the (publicly-available) NGC documentation (or lack of it) backs up my claim. Not submitted for approval, and therefore not planned for or used in casino tournaments. Hence, not casino chips. Nice Paulson chips, but not Paulson casino chips. Promotional or private-use chips made by GPI for the owner of a major client contract makes the most sense to me.
 
I just realized the date on the box says April 2006. But the Wynn Casino opened in 2005, I believe. So, if correct, these would definitely not be prototypes.
 
RainmanTrail said:
I just realized the date on the box says April 2006. But the Wynn Casino opened in 2005, I believe. So, if correct, these would definitely not be prototypes.
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However, ONE MONTH LATER, on May 10 2006, The Wynn Casino in Macau selected GPI to make their chips for them according to this article...

http://gpigaming.investorroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=28

So... these might have been made as prototypes for The Wynn Macau... Seems rather likely now. Note that they decided on GPI plastics, but the timing here seems interesting if these were shipped in April of 2006, and they made their decision on May 10, 2006.
 
DJ Mack said:
.... Wynn, the family, has no rights to the logo.
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The logo is reportedly a direct copy of part of Steve Wynn's signature. I seriously doubt that he signed away his full rights to it. It's far more likely that he licensed its use to the casino's corporation.

There's at least one Web report out there that these chips were purchased by Wynn's wife for use in a promotional event in New York.
 
Also, the color pattern of these chips is labeled as "Hawaii Flower" ...pretty cool
 
RainmanTrail said:
However, ONE MONTH LATER, in May of 2006, The Wynn Casino in Macau selected GPI to make their chips for them according to this article...

So... these might have been made as prototypes for The Wynn Macau... Seems rather likely now
http://gpigaming.investorroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=28
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I feel that is actually an extremely unlikely hypothesis. The article states the Macau site's "...entire order, consist(s) of the Bourgogne & Grasset brand." There is little chance that they would get Paulson prototypes and then order different injection molded chips, which are likely very different in final design. The original theory of a promotional event is still the leading origin story to me.
 
RainmanTrail said:
1) What do you think the odds are that Paulson/GPI would make a set of chips using the Wynn logo for anyone other than the Wynn Casino? My guess is that it's pretty close to zero. I assume David Spragg would agree with that assessment.
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It's my hypothesis that these are knockoffs, like a relabel project. However the Apache box photo seems to lend evidence to Some sort of promotional chip. I'd be much more interested in this "Play Day" event. What was it? Where was it? What was the purpose?

RainmanTrail said:
2) What do you think the odds are that BCC would make a set of chips using the Wynn logo for anyone other than the Wynn Casino? Again, I place this pretty close to zero.
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Same as above.

RainmanTrail said:
3) Assuming we've crossed both of the above hurdles, what do you think the odds are that BCC would make this set for the non Wynn individual using several different options for the 100 chip with the EXACT SAME inlay artwork AT THE SAME TIME that Paulson did this? Note that BCC and Paulson were competing companies at the time these chips were commissioned.
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Judging from the box in the Apache photo these were made in 2006. The casino opened in 2005. I would presume that they already had chips for the first year that they were opened. It's unlikely that they were so worn out they needed new chips. Moreover, no casino is ordering thousands of chips "just to see them in stacks on the table". Even more, why would they order thousands of prototypes and then settle on a chip that is completely different in colors, spots, inlay design, and mold?

RainmanTrail said:
I place this parlay so close to zero that I feel comfortable stating "I sure as shit guarantee that these were commissioned by The Wynn". What their intended purpose was for these chips is up for debate, but that they were commissioned by The Wynn, in my opinion, is not.
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RainmanTrail said:
They are clearly from a Las Vegas Casino. I can sure as shit guarantee you The Wynn's tax returns from their production year would also agree with me.
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This is an important document here for the future purchaser. If it turns out these weren't for a Las Vegas casino, you could be legally bound by these statements to buy them back for the full amount. That is the kind of protection I like to see to keep the chipping community safe.
 
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