gopherblue
Straight Flush
Try to salvage the mistake you made on the flop and bet 2-3bbs.
Bet 2 BBs.
JB, I should clarify, that nobody liked the flop as much as me. It's A very wet board, especially in a limped pot. Even flopping a set, you can't feel super confident in this spot. I personally would bet a set on this board (just me), to see where I'm at, protect against any draws. In early position, with the nutz, I think I'm checking the flop...
Which makes it even more confusing how you could have the read after the SB checks to you in the BB that the other four or five players in the hand aren't happy with the flop. But I digress...
So you have the stone nuts on a three-flush board and you want to get value for your hand from nitty, ABC players. It is absolutely a bet.
It's very simple. Literally just go through the decision tree:
If you bet in the range of 2-3 BBs, what do you expect them to call with? They'll call always with all sets, always with a straight, often with weak or middling flushes, often with Kc, often with an ace and a big club, sometimes with a big flush or the nuts. What will they raise with? Often with a big flush or the nuts, rarely with weak or middling flushes, rarely with sets and rarely with a made straight.
If you check, what hands do you expect them to bet? A nitty, ABC player will often check his entire range here. You will sometimes get a guy to bet a weak or middling flush to protect. But what if you check raise? He's folding 95% of the time. He will often even check the nut (non straight) flush here with the same thinking displayed elsewhere in this thread so he doesn't "scare" anyone. And what if you raise? Obviously he will get it in. But that's no different than if you simply bet and let him raise or size your bets so that you get all the money in by the river if he elects to flat three streets. So you realize no advantage by check raising when your opponent holds the nut flush.
In summary, if they hold a set, a straight, the Kc, or an ace with a big club, they'll call your bet, but they will check if checked to. If they hold a weak/middling flush, they'll bet fold if you check raise. If they hold a big flush, and you check raise, they will get it in with the nut (non straight) flush, and very occasionally bet fold with a big flush and they will very often raise if you bet or call of their stack by the river if you bet the flop.
By betting, you get value from non-flush hands that will not bet the flop. When you're against a big hand, you give up nothing because the outcome is going to be the same the vast majority of the time: the money will be in the middle by the end of the hand no matter whether you check or bet the flop.
Hey if you are that scared maybe you should stick to tiddly winks and loose leaf tea.
I mean you'd still get to play with chips . . .wait, this is an option? Why didn't anyone tell me this before?
Fold pre obv.
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As played, bet the flop, bet the turn, jam the river..
Okay but you claim to have made this "read" after the only action you had observed is SB's flop check, so how could you possibly know that no one liked this flop?
I didn't make any sort of table read that people were hating this flop. Just that unless you have my hand, or maybe type hands, you're not likely to feel overly comfortable with this flop.
This is why you're a better player than I. But apparently you missed the part where I was in the BB and saw the flop for free?
UTG leads out for 6k. The guy in late position calls, and it's back on me. What do I do? Flat or C/R?
Depends on their stack sizes.
Yeah I've had something like that happen to me. SickeningUntil the turn comes and the river and someone turns over .
I guess at that point you just take a nice big gulp of your unsweetened iced tea and say "nice hand".
Checking is really, really bad here - it's level 1 thinking. Bet 350. We want to get money in the pot, but more importantly, we want four callers. More players to see the turn means a greater likelihood that somebody makes a hand that will pay us off. If nobody calls, then nobody was gonna bet anyway if you checked.Flop comes . SB checks. What do we do? Check or bet?
Fold pre obv.
Not really free, unless you skipped posting your blind or took it back before the flop. That aside, there are no rules stopping you from mucking your hand on your action pre-flop. Would have totally eliminated your dilemma on how to play the hand, and stopped you from blundering on both the flop and the turn. Poker is about making good decisions.apparently you missed the part where I was in the BB and saw the flop for free?
Checking is really, really bad here - it's level 1 thinking. Bet 350. We want to get money in the pot, but more importantly, we want four callers. More players to see the turn means a greater likelihood that somebody makes a hand that will pay us off. If nobody calls, then nobody was gonna bet anyway if you checked.
Yeah, I know that under-betting might not fly. If somebody complains, bump it up to the BB size with a simple 'doh, sorry'. You will end up with more players and more chips in the pot than if you bet out with 2BB.... both of which are good things in this spot.
Not really free, unless you skipped posting your blind or took it back before the flop. That aside, there are no rules stopping you from mucking your hand on your action pre-flop. Would have totally eliminated your dilemma on how to play the hand, and stopped you from blundering on both the flop and the turn. Poker is about making good decisions.
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This is why these strat threads are good. So many ppl here Would play this wrong. I counted 11 ppl (including me) who initially indicated checking the flop, and 5 ppl who advocated betting. And these votes tend to fall into player styles. Very interesting.
As to the free cards in the BB, they're only costly if you go crazy when you connect and
Run into rio issues with subpar holdings.
I understand that poker is about making good decisions. I agree with this 100%. I also understand that we need to factor the players into these decisions. I think the lines we take need to factor this. If I'm playing a game with bergs courage or jbutler or BG, I think I play differently than if I'm playing regular joes in a bar game. Not sure if this makes sense, but I'm trying to get in the heads of my opponents.
I think with this crew, leading out in the flop like this from EP (with my tight image) might get one caller, or potentially a bunch of folds. It will scream flush, str, or set at a minimum. I scoop 4K.
I'm appreciating the feedback, since I do think there's room for improvement in how I played the hand.
Still looking for thoughts on how to proceed after the 6k bet from UTG and call from LP.
Flat/raise?
Knowing nothing about the villains, I always bet.
This is why these strat threads are good. So many ppl here Would play this wrong. I counted 11 ppl (including me) who initially indicated checking the flop, and 5 ppl who advocated betting. And these votes tend to fall into player styles. Very interesting.
It doesn't matter what Hero does, those villains are folding to the first aggression. So bet the flop. turn or river - even check it down - it didn't make a difference.