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Have Chinese cards mold replica sets gone too far? (2 Viewers)

Ben8257 said:
Ohh boy... angry Ben Book time! Lol

Cards Molds suck, I warned everyone as they get used the surface texture wears down... dingos on here said "can we get another creditable sorce on this" how about I own more chips than most of you will dream of... that's a sorce!

I don't come on here and share my opinions to spread bull sh*t and gossip, I am a 100% honest stand up dude. That Sh*t really pissed me off when all I was trying to do is warn people before they fill their cabinets with junk!

Sure $.40 a chip sounds attractive, $1 is definitely more expensive and an investment... but if the $.40 × say 600... that's $240 down the drain and 100% honestly I would rather have $.16 slugged plastics like Monte Carlos off eBay then be forced to play that slippery junk again.

Again non chippers got mad at me and asked "why do we have to play the Shi**y chips, we play those for bar night and they suck!" Did I mention those were the heated opinions thrown at me by NON chippers the night I asked to play a fellow chippers cards mold set.

This was my post after that game in the thread "have I been priced out of the hobby" post #34 if you care


As far as the copies, absolutely I 100% agree it has been taken way too far. But I own a set of the Taj Mahal fakes (they are not Tributes... just flat out fakes), have never played them but I do own them... wouldn't it be hypocritical to say I am 100% against this since I own a set?

We recently got a sample set of Bellagio chips they are NOT cards molds, a printed ceramic made to look Identical to the real thing, even Tommy complimented on getting the fake glitter effect and making them look real!

I feel for the folks that spent Fortunes and years dedicated to building original sets like @41Pickup who literally spent years to build one rack of Tropicana Series 1 Scrown TRKs... it would take probably a good designer what 1 hour to design a fake exact replica?

So Devils advocate here... you host a meet up years later, someone says "ohh my buddy has those, we play them all the time, actually they suck! They are slippery as hell!" Is it that guys fault for not knowing about the originals?

Anyone taking count of the old school collectors who have all but vanished with the "real" original chips. The OG chippers who have all but faded out? How is anyone going to Even know about the originals and what it took to find them if you guys just keep creating fakes and pissing those people off and driving them away from the hobby.

Believe me, I speak with many of the veterans regularly, almost all of them say the exact same thing "I am done woth chipping but stick around for meet ups and friends"

Sure water it down, water it down... it's good for everyone, everyone wins here. Soon you have nothing hut a hobby of JUNK! Foakleys, frolexes, furberry ... yes this crap happens all the time, but that doesn't mean we have to accept it. If you can't afford a real Rolex, change your life and find a way if it's that important to you!

Can't afford $15 Paulsons but put others down for paying the going rate, calling them idiots for not only wanting but making other sacrifices in life to make that happen. Again we are NOT all doctors and lawyers in this hobby. I'm a construction worker making $105k a year... how could I possibly have more than a years salary (pre taxed) invested in poker chips in just 3.5 years... that's insane! Well again SACRIFICES

I was honestly ok with it at first, a few of the design were ehh... OK. But then BTP, I understand a designer here made that, but other people paid for that design, tons of those chips were made and are even available now on the forum... cheap... no... but real!

What about the folks that paid $12 - $15 a chip because that was their dream set, made those really hard sacrifices and then people come along and make knock offs for $.40... this is awesome for the community! Everyone can have them now! Really?

Don't even get me started on copying IOC chips, seriously a recent chip room release? RHCs... there is nothing rare about those chips, they can still be found. Quicker, easier, cheaper... I mean sh*t why not get Amazon to carry them so you can just click them into your basket and use prime for free shipping.. get em tomorrow by a drone.

There was pride in this hobby, pride and dreams for "Grail Quest" building the impossible... now you can just sit back and wait for your dream set to come to you, just fill in your quantities and wait!

But you will NEVER know what it is like to add the 100th chip to a rack you spent 3 years looking everywhere and busting your ass to find! You will NEVER understand or grasp that level of satisfaction.

This crap is absolutely ruining what used to be a fun and exciting hobby!

You guys saying a couple hours on here you will know the difference... what happens when we run off all the people that love the originals and post about them and keep the info relavant.. what happens when that fades to the back pages and gets difficult to locate.

Original designs on Card Molds because of your budget! Bad ass Bro, congratulations,I hope they serve you well!

Direct copies made for people that can't pay a designer $5 to put a toilet and thumbs up poop emoji, or home town symbol on a chip and a denomination... you folks are ruining what used to be awesome... but what's new in this world.
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^this
 
Ben8257 said:
Ohh boy... angry Ben Book time! Lol

Cards Molds suck, I warned everyone as they get used the surface texture wears down... dingos on here said "can we get another creditable sorce on this" how about I own more chips than most of you will dream of... that's a sorce!

I don't come on here and share my opinions to spread bull sh*t and gossip, I am a 100% honest stand up dude. That Sh*t really pissed me off when all I was trying to do is warn people before they fill their cabinets with junk!

Sure $.40 a chip sounds attractive, $1 is definitely more expensive and an investment... but if the $.40 × say 600... that's $240 down the drain and 100% honestly I would rather have $.16 slugged plastics like Monte Carlos off eBay then be forced to play that slippery junk again.

Again non chippers got mad at me and asked "why do we have to play the Shi**y chips, we play those for bar night and they suck!" Did I mention those were the heated opinions thrown at me by NON chippers the night I asked to play a fellow chippers cards mold set.

This was my post after that game in the thread "have I been priced out of the hobby" post #34 if you care


As far as the copies, absolutely I 100% agree it has been taken way too far. But I own a set of the Taj Mahal fakes (they are not Tributes... just flat out fakes), have never played them but I do own them... wouldn't it be hypocritical to say I am 100% against this since I own a set?

We recently got a sample set of Bellagio chips they are NOT cards molds, a printed ceramic made to look Identical to the real thing, even Tommy complimented on getting the fake glitter effect and making them look real!

I feel for the folks that spent Fortunes and years dedicated to building original sets like @41Pickup who literally spent years to build one rack of Tropicana Series 1 Scrown TRKs... it would take probably a good designer what 1 hour to design a fake exact replica?

So Devils advocate here... you host a meet up years later, someone says "ohh my buddy has those, we play them all the time, actually they suck! They are slippery as hell!" Is it that guys fault for not knowing about the originals?

Anyone taking count of the old school collectors who have all but vanished with the "real" original chips. The OG chippers who have all but faded out? How is anyone going to Even know about the originals and what it took to find them if you guys just keep creating fakes and pissing those people off and driving them away from the hobby.

Believe me, I speak with many of the veterans regularly, almost all of them say the exact same thing "I am done woth chipping but stick around for meet ups and friends"

Sure water it down, water it down... it's good for everyone, everyone wins here. Soon you have nothing hut a hobby of JUNK! Foakleys, frolexes, furberry ... yes this crap happens all the time, but that doesn't mean we have to accept it. If you can't afford a real Rolex, change your life and find a way if it's that important to you!

Can't afford $15 Paulsons but put others down for paying the going rate, calling them idiots for not only wanting but making other sacrifices in life to make that happen. Again we are NOT all doctors and lawyers in this hobby. I'm a construction worker making $105k a year... how could I possibly have more than a years salary (pre taxed) invested in poker chips in just 3.5 years... that's insane! Well again SACRIFICES

I was honestly ok with it at first, a few of the design were ehh... OK. But then BTP, I understand a designer here made that, but other people paid for that design, tons of those chips were made and are even available now on the forum... cheap... no... but real!

What about the folks that paid $12 - $15 a chip because that was their dream set, made those really hard sacrifices and then people come along and make knock offs for $.40... this is awesome for the community! Everyone can have them now! Really?

Don't even get me started on copying IOC chips, seriously a recent chip room release? RHCs... there is nothing rare about those chips, they can still be found. Quicker, easier, cheaper... I mean sh*t why not get Amazon to carry them so you can just click them into your basket and use prime for free shipping.. get em tomorrow by a drone.

There was pride in this hobby, pride and dreams for "Grail Quest" building the impossible... now you can just sit back and wait for your dream set to come to you, just fill in your quantities and wait!

But you will NEVER know what it is like to add the 100th chip to a rack you spent 3 years looking everywhere and busting your ass to find! You will NEVER understand or grasp that level of satisfaction.

This crap is absolutely ruining what used to be a fun and exciting hobby!

You guys saying a couple hours on here you will know the difference... what happens when we run off all the people that love the originals and post about them and keep the info relavant.. what happens when that fades to the back pages and gets difficult to locate.

Original designs on Card Molds because of your budget! Bad ass Bro, congratulations,I hope they serve you well!

Direct copies made for people that can't pay a designer $5 to put a toilet and thumbs up poop emoji, or home town symbol on a chip and a denomination... you folks are ruining what used to be awesome... but what's new in this world.
Click to expand...
Jesus fucking Christ. That's SO many words....
 
You ever play that whisper game, where you start a sentence and it moves around the room, changing with each retelling?

Think about those card mold chips two or three owners (and years later). removed from where they are now.
I can already hear “These were grandpas chips from the 50’s from the real casino”

They are durable goods that never go away.
 
ekricket said:
You ever play that whisper game, where you start a sentence and it moves around the room, changing with each retelling?

Think about those card mold chips two or three owners (and years later). removed from where they are now.
I can already hear “These were grandpas chips from the 50’s from the real casino”

They are durable goods that never go away.
Click to expand...
we will go full circle when Tina's shop gets raided and taken down, and 3 generations from now, these card's molds are selling for $15/chip (not including inflation)
 
Marius L said:
Anyone really interested in chipping will never stop to appreciate the epic sets collected for years, chip by chip, like the Tropicana set you mention.

Sets of cards mold chips are not taking away anything from that. The chip is completely different. It's not like I believe my NCC cards mold set is even remotely close to the epicness of @gopherblue's original set.

The cards molds are for different people. Mostly they are a great and flexible mid range chip which is enough for 99% of poker players. The completely bonkers nerds like you and myself will never be satisfied with just a set of cards molds. Its just that it's one more category to get a set in. We still want the higher end stuff if we can afford it, no matter how many tribute sets/fakes we see. In other words the cheap ceramics will not impact the collectors marked for the real, epic vintage sets.
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But it absolutely WILL "water down" the hobby.

What happens when 20 players with card molds sets of BTPs post in the "live home game thread"

Another person saves up for 3 years and finally purchases the real thing and proud as hell posts their first picture... it gets 2 likes and why? Because 25 of the last 40 posts were of the same chips, the same colors, the same (but fake) artwork.

Does it really matter or should it? I mean it's a poker chip forum, we all boast and want to be appreciated for our investments, our collections, out victories in completing or the epic "finally playable"

As stated above with the correct lighting a picture can absolutely 100% look like the real thing. It's not coming... it has already happened! Posts of "getting my Arias on the felt tonight!" "Getting my BTPs in play yeah Boy!!" There is no mention of Card Molds. WE as chippers get excited to see real rare and hard to find chips hit the felt... it warms our hearts and gets us excited (as chip nerds) when we get to see "the real deal" those painstaking efforts I spoke of above put into play. Seeing pictures constantly of fakes will take away that excitement.

And again what happens when the folks with the originals just "go away" stop posting and participating in the once great hobby, we just assume that someone stepping in here in 2023 is going to know what the real deal is?

Oh and for the record there are MANY chips that I would literally "kiss the bare ass of a keebler elf" for the chance to purchase for $15 each! But I have played poker with probably a couple hundred members here... never once do I mention what I have invested in the set... especially with non chippers. I love our hobby and it is important to me, people know what that Rolex is worth... i kind of enjoy the moddest approach of allowing folks to play with a chip set that cost $10k for a $20 poker game. Its not really an investment to me, it is a passion I get to enjoy withs friends, family and peirs!

This hobby is different to everyone, we own a set of Sunfly Hybrids that I enjoy damn near as much as real clay. The new Hybrid inlay Tina chips I have been raving about are just awesome!
20221014_162856.jpg

Sure the man behind the curtain took some "inspiration" from other chips, but his own design, his own colors, more than once has offered for others to join him on group buys @Himewad

Again there is a huge # of chippers that have designed their own thing, have a budget and 100% I think that is probably a decent investment with all things considered (better than non denom Dice chips) nothing wrong with "not spending $2k on poker chips" if it's a monthly neighborhood $20 game. No one is saying YOU MUST buy Paulsons!

But somethings "should" be sacred, some things take effort to get to the top! I feel for those that put in the effort just to see someone make rip off fakes of their cherished chips!
 
I was a bmx racer ftom about 1978-1982. High end bmx bikes from that era are highly sought after, and typically cost thousands of dollars. By the way vintagebmx.com died just like chiptalk.com.

Guess where these beauties are being manufactured…I guess it’s most collecting hobbies.
E47C0BD1-0588-4D55-9A0A-FC4A8C77457E.png
 
mike32 said:
I was a bmx racer ftom about 1978-1982. High end bmx bikes from that era are highly sought after, and typically cost thousands of dollars. By the way vintagebmx.com died just like chiptalk.com.

Guess where these beauties are being manufactured…I guess it’s most collecting hobbies.
View attachment 1028440
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I had an all chrome Haro Master from 85 or 86 that I absolutely loved. I put in the attic of my parents garage when I moved out. Went to get it a few years back and found out my youngest brother sold it on me. I had to walk away before I punched him!
 
It's a bit unfortunate, but the inexpensive nature of the China-based ceramics has turned a sizable active majority (and most of the new members) into crazed consumers. What makes this more of a community should not be based on who owns what, but the sharing of ideas, experiences, and hopes.

I initially joined because I had some specific needs for table game equipment and wanted to do my research, and was met with a welcoming community full of good advice, an appreciation of history, and a love of creativity. I appreciate the commercial activity on the site, God knows I've promoted and participated in it countless times. But I hope that I've contributed back much more in other, more diverse ways, and hope to continually encourage others to do so.

What I didn't appreciate were the occasional subtle and not-so-subtle judgments that some types of chips were not good enough to play with, let alone own, or that someone's limited budget was somehow reflected in their worthiness to contribute to the forum, or that there was some hidden hierarchy of elites that were worthy enough to consider inviting to fraudulent NAGB purchases, for profit or no.

How complicit are we in fostering this atmosphere that the goal is to own whatever there is to buy, regardless of how little creativity is involved, or the security of the "real" collectibles out there, or the intangibles of mutual support and encouragement and the sharing of ideas (rather than products)? How far do our criticisms and prejudices affect the new generation of chippers who are looking for a place to start?

The impending arrival of fake THCs will herald a sea change in the valuation of home chips, not in $$$ sense but in the respect of art and history.
 
I dunno. I'm less of a fan of card molds after using them for the past 6 months. But at the same time, if you want Paulson's that have bright colours or nice edge spots, you are paying over $5 / chip. Paulson fantasy sets are up the $6-8 / chip range.

Even Chip Room sales are highly competitive, not inexpensive, and only come about every few months.

Custom CPCs are $2-5 / chip plus a 12 + month wait.

Stock CPCs are still expensive for people looking for their first set to add to a $0.25/0.50 game.

China Clays are pretty dull and not all that great.

Good ceramics are a good starting point, but BRPro stock designs are a bit of an acquired taste and customs take a considerable amount of time, effort and money to get them to come out nicely.

The reason card molds are as big as they are is because they fit a niche. Affordable chips with nice designs that play relatively well. I'm not a fan of direct rip-offs of live chips, but the majority of those people buying them are just throwing them into their low-stake games as an upgrade from dice chips.

I think card molds are certainly reaching an unhealthy point, but they have acted as a great entry point for many people. I think the end result will eventually result in more options becoming available as the hobby grows.
 
I'm with @Ben8257 . The cards molds look like an awesome and cheap alternative that look great, but they don't play great over the long term.

Give me clay all day. They'll last for generations.

Buy once, cry once.
 
BearMetal said:
I don't think anyone's grandma is buying xmas gifts on PCF :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:

... but I also stated above that when she does offer H&C chips, if they are too close to Paulsons, that would be very bad. As far as giving away your IP to China, I agree with you. If I created custom artwork that I didn't want to see end up on Alibaba, I wouldn't deal with Tina.

But this post was whether we have a problem with CM chips in general, which I don't.
Click to expand...

I don't think copying SportsBall or Casino designs are at all a big deal, I believe they actually like it, it promotes the brand, if someone hands a card mold to a casino employee, I'm sure they would know the difference. I don't think or want to believe that someone on PCF would try to scam others with card molds, but that doesn't mean I'm not naive, or that there arn't others with access to Tina.

But WE as a community are definitely enabling the card molds, without us it wouldn't have really got off the ground imo, and I think we can drawl a straight line to the scrown and thc CCs.

I also think Ben points out by copying the other sets it does seem to diminish them. I wouldn't send my designs over to Tina, I learned that from Eloe2000
 
Machine said:
I don't think copying SportsBall or Casino designs are at all a big deal, I believe they actually like it, it promotes the brand, if someone hands a card mold to a casino employee, I'm sure they would know the difference. I don't think or want to believe that someone on PCF would try to scam others with card molds, but that doesn't mean I'm not naive, or that there arn't others with access to Tina.

But WE as a community are definitely enabling the card molds, without us it wouldn't have really got off the ground imo, and I think we can drawl a straight line to the scrown and thc CCs.

I also think Ben points out by copying the other sets it does seem to diminish them. I wouldn't send my designs over to Tina, I learned that from Eloe2000
Click to expand...
I agree with all these points.

Casinos will definitely know the difference, and I don't think anyone here is going to try to pass off a CM chip as and authentic one. Perhaps they will show up on eBay or some other non-PCF site with someone hocking them as the OG's... Only time will tell.

And yes, PCF definitely is to blame for the rise of the CM chip. But at the same time, it also lets people design some pretty awesome chips without breaking the bank. You just have to assume that they're going to steal your artwork and reuse it. I have yet to see an actual example of this, but I'm 100% certain that it's happening. The only way to avoid it is to send artwork that only means something to you and that nobody else would want.
 
If there is a problem, it's not just the recent replicas on cards mold chips. It's a cultural/attitude issue that seems to be prevalent in this hobby.

In terms of creating opportunities for scams, what about murdering/relabelling chips with near or exact copies of inlays? I would think a noob would be more easily fooled by a murdered paulson with identical inlay design vs a printed ceramic chip with faux edgespots that are not 100% aligned on all chips.

What about the AS tourney chips that were near copies of actual WSOP chips? People don't think that went too far? Actually causing the WSOP to react?

And what about the underhanded nature of how these recent NAGB chips are ordered? Going to extreme measures to deceive GPI.

None of the recent NAGB chips are attempts at an original cohesive design. Most of the RPC chips are copies of individual chips from a variety of sought after sets.

But most distressing, is the use of CC by some PCFers in this thread as an acronym for cards mold. That makes no fucking sense. WTF?
 
jpike16 said:
So I am pretty involved in the fountain pen community ( yes, it’s a thing lol) and it is pretty common practice for Chinese knockoffs of expensive pens to be produced. However, these cheaper pens are rarely promoted openly by the pen community. They certainly have ppl within the community who purchase the knockoffs, but it is kind of frowned upon overall. Just a perspective from another hobby.
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1669261784913.jpeg
 
Ben8257 said:
But it absolutely WILL "water down" the hobby.

What happens when 20 players with card molds sets of BTPs post in the "live home game thread"

Another person saves up for 3 years and finally purchases the real thing and proud as hell posts their first picture... it gets 2 likes and why? Because 25 of the last 40 posts were of the same chips, the same colors, the same (but fake) artwork.

Does it really matter or should it? I mean it's a poker chip forum, we all boast and want to be appreciated for our investments, our collections, out victories in completing or the epic "finally playable"

As stated above with the correct lighting a picture can absolutely 100% look like the real thing. It's not coming... it has already happened! Posts of "getting my Arias on the felt tonight!" "Getting my BTPs in play yeah Boy!!" There is no mention of Card Molds. WE as chippers get excited to see real rare and hard to find chips hit the felt... it warms our hearts and gets us excited (as chip nerds) when we get to see "the real deal" those painstaking efforts I spoke of above put into play. Seeing pictures constantly of fakes will take away that excitement.

And again what happens when the folks with the originals just "go away" stop posting and participating in the once great hobby, we just assume that someone stepping in here in 2023 is going to know what the real deal is?

Oh and for the record there are MANY chips that I would literally "kiss the bare ass of a keebler elf" for the chance to purchase for $15 each! But I have played poker with probably a couple hundred members here... never once do I mention what I have invested in the set... especially with non chippers. I love our hobby and it is important to me, people know what that Rolex is worth... i kind of enjoy the moddest approach of allowing folks to play with a chip set that cost $10k for a $20 poker game. Its not really an investment to me, it is a passion I get to enjoy withs friends, family and peirs!

This hobby is different to everyone, we own a set of Sunfly Hybrids that I enjoy damn near as much as real clay. The new Hybrid inlay Tina chips I have been raving about are just awesome!
View attachment 1028250
Sure the man behind the curtain took some "inspiration" from other chips, but his own design, his own colors, more than once has offered for others to join him on group buys @Himewad

Again there is a huge # of chippers that have designed their own thing, have a budget and 100% I think that is probably a decent investment with all things considered (better than non denom Dice chips) nothing wrong with "not spending $2k on poker chips" if it's a monthly neighborhood $20 game. No one is saying YOU MUST buy Paulsons!

But somethings "should" be sacred, some things take effort to get to the top! I feel for those that put in the effort just to see someone make rip off fakes of their cherished chips!
Click to expand...
Me reading a post by @Ben8257 when I have shit to do
1669264429630.gif
 
Perthmike said:
I kinda agree too, except for the part about the likes.

Clout chasing ruined pcf far more than Chinese chips ever will.
Click to expand...
100% ^ this!

I agree with everything my good friend @Ben8257 has mentioned here in this thread but I must say @Perthmike hits it squarely on the head with this post.

#EveryRealSetFelted!
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