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Have Chinese cards mold replica sets gone too far? (6 Viewers)

ekricket said:
This whole hobby is built on FOMO. Cards mold are a way of not missing out. There are problems brewing, but hey, let’s live for today and fuck all that future stuff. We can put bandaids on it later.
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Not implying that Ekricket is any of these people, but his post got me thinking…

I think it’s hilarious that some people think Cards mold chips are this huge problem off in the future for the chipping community but some of the same people are like “hey flippers are no big deal it’s a free market system so if someone wants to get between you and a seller and mark up prices 200% with no value add, capitalism baby”.

Flippers are one of the reasons why Paulsons are so goddamn expensive, which caused a market need in the chipping community for something like Cards molds. It’s cause and effect to a large degree.

Also, people are authentically worried about chippers confusing Cards mold ceramics with actual Paulsons but some of the same people will literally rip our reality apart if you mix RHC and TPC Paulson clays in the same set. So I can’t tell the difference between Cards mold on ceramic and THC on clay, but when RHC and TPC get put in the same rack, I start having involuntary convulsions?

Also, some of the same people concerned about someone mixing up clays and ceramics at an actual casino were ok with clay chips (NAGB) being produced that were very nearly identical to the ones used in the actual WSOP.
 
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Also some of the same people who would happily mislead Paulson to get Paulson chips for their home game or to sell have a problem with cards mold because it “rips off the artist or company”.

So they’re terrified of somehow defrauding a casino with a 1000 chip home game set but yeah let’s tell Paulson that we’re an international leisure travel company with a casino and get Paulsons, it’s all fair game.

This is one of the weirder threads I’ve seen recently.
 
bergs said:
Also some of the same people who would happily mislead Paulson to get Paulson chips for their home game or to sell have a problem with cards mold because it “rips off the artist or company”.
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Has this really happened? I truly wasn't aware this was a thing.
 
Kid_Eastwood said:
Now you can in fact even print and sell a t-shirt with the orignal Mickey Mouse and Disney can't tell you anything about it.
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It's worth mentioning that this is false. Disney is one of the worst offenders when it comes to IP.

https://www.gandb.com/2019/08/steam...ights-and-trademark-protection-part-i-of-iii/

"By successfully lobbying for an extension, Disney was able to protect its copyrights in Steamboat Willie until January 1, 2024."

Not sure if this is the place to get too deep into an IP debate though. It exists and we all just have to deal with it.
 
Servo said:
  • A Van Gogh is a bad comparison because his work isn’t covered by copyright.
  • Real Van Goghs are not available on eBay, so I’m never going to mistakenly think I’m buying the real thing.
  • Artwork on chips is covered by copyright, and there are many available on affordable marketplaces where mixups could occur.
  • If you wouldn’t rip off a home CPC designer why rip off the Aria designer, for example? Still a person, who made original artwork.
  • “Personal use” is one facet of the copyright fair use exemption, but it’s not a blanket OK to steal things for personal use. Someone still owns that intellectual property and copyright and should be in control of who uses it and how much they’re compensated for it.
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So in my mind a CPC custom set represents lots and lots of hard work from the person that makes the chips. They want them to look good and be ascetically pleasing. A casino just has the logo designed and slaps in onto the chips. Nobody can tell me that the new Horseshoe chips out there with the off center city names were created by anyone trying to make them look good. They just make chips that are cheap and follow the regulations. I don't have an issue with ripping that off. I would take issue if someone took the designs I made for my custom sets and made a cards mold set out of them. I think as a community we wouldn't accept that and would ostracize that member for stealing the designs of another member.
 
If there was more choice in the quality (and the exact definition of this is going to be very fluid) part of the market at $1ish/chip we might not be having this discussion.

What do we have?

For custom clay there is only CPC.

For other clay it is limited amounts of various casino or fantasy Paulsons which in playable amounts seems to me to usually be in the five dollars plus a chip range. TRK or BCC don’t even seem to be worth discussing given their rarity.

I guess there is Matsui and Abbiati but they definitely seem like outliers even outside the discussion of their desirability relative to choice, order minimums, and the whole plastic thing (so even I will admit they’re very nice for the material they are made of).

Obviously there is ceramic and we’re down to BR Poker or various CM, Sunfly, etc.

I know the basis of this conversation is not necessarily about the chips themselves, but rather the exact duplication of existing designs. And while it’s just my take on it, somebody doing their own riff on an existing iconic casino Seems OK, but I tend to strongly prefer, when people somewhat personalize it for themselves. I mean I’ve seen all of the almost exact tributes to the World Series of Poker for years now that have been barely/slightly altered.
 
RichMahogany said:
Paraphrasing here

You said something like “No one uses mint THCs” which is said by no true chipper
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There is currently 200 Mint Bally's chips for sale which states, "never been felted". BTW, I said most don't felt, there are some that do. ;)
 
TheLemursReturn said:
It's worth mentioning that this is false. Disney is one of the worst offenders when it comes to IP.

https://www.gandb.com/2019/08/steam...ights-and-trademark-protection-part-i-of-iii/

"By successfully lobbying for an extension, Disney was able to protect its copyrights in Steamboat Willie until January 1, 2024."

Not sure if this is the place to get too deep into an IP debate though. It exists and we all just have to deal with it.
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My bad, I thought they were done with this one even in the US.

In other countries, it should not be an issue though.

But yes, you're right, no need to go further about IP here.
 
opengun said:
There is currently 200 Mint Bally's chips for sale which states, "never been felted". BTW, I said most don't felt, there are some that do. ;)
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Sigh. “Never been felted” does not equal “never going to be felted”

When I have mint chips that I’m not sure if I’m going to keep, I’d rather keep them mint for the next person. Many here prefer to buy mint or near as possible

And you did say “most, and I’m saying
01801610-FBC4-4AE4-8033-5C6CE4470265.gif
 
TheLemursReturn said:
It's worth mentioning that this is false. Disney is one of the worst offenders when it comes to IP.

https://www.gandb.com/2019/08/steam...ights-and-trademark-protection-part-i-of-iii/

"By successfully lobbying for an extension, Disney was able to protect its copyrights in Steamboat Willie until January 1, 2024."

Not sure if this is the place to get too deep into an IP debate though. It exists and we all just have to deal with it.
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They've successfully lobbied a few times.

GANeOMW.png
 
Ben8257 said:
Ohh boy... angry Ben Book time! Lol

Cards Molds suck, I warned everyone as they get used the surface texture wears down... dingos on here said "can we get another creditable sorce on this" how about I own more chips than most of you will dream of... that's a sorce!

I don't come on here and share my opinions to spread bull sh*t and gossip, I am a 100% honest stand up dude. That Sh*t really pissed me off when all I was trying to do is warn people before they fill their cabinets with junk!

Sure $.40 a chip sounds attractive, $1 is definitely more expensive and an investment... but if the $.40 × say 600... that's $240 down the drain and 100% honestly I would rather have $.16 slugged plastics like Monte Carlos off eBay then be forced to play that slippery junk again.

Again non chippers got mad at me and asked "why do we have to play the Shi**y chips, we play those for bar night and they suck!" Did I mention those were the heated opinions thrown at me by NON chippers the night I asked to play a fellow chippers cards mold set.

This was my post after that game in the thread "have I been priced out of the hobby" post #34 if you care


As far as the copies, absolutely I 100% agree it has been taken way too far. But I own a set of the Taj Mahal fakes (they are not Tributes... just flat out fakes), have never played them but I do own them... wouldn't it be hypocritical to say I am 100% against this since I own a set?

We recently got a sample set of Bellagio chips they are NOT cards molds, a printed ceramic made to look Identical to the real thing, even Tommy complimented on getting the fake glitter effect and making them look real!

I feel for the folks that spent Fortunes and years dedicated to building original sets like @41Pickup who literally spent years to build one rack of Tropicana Series 1 Scrown TRKs... it would take probably a good designer what 1 hour to design a fake exact replica?

So Devils advocate here... you host a meet up years later, someone says "ohh my buddy has those, we play them all the time, actually they suck! They are slippery as hell!" Is it that guys fault for not knowing about the originals?

Anyone taking count of the old school collectors who have all but vanished with the "real" original chips. The OG chippers who have all but faded out? How is anyone going to Even know about the originals and what it took to find them if you guys just keep creating fakes and pissing those people off and driving them away from the hobby.

Believe me, I speak with many of the veterans regularly, almost all of them say the exact same thing "I am done woth chipping but stick around for meet ups and friends"

Sure water it down, water it down... it's good for everyone, everyone wins here. Soon you have nothing hut a hobby of JUNK! Foakleys, frolexes, furberry ... yes this crap happens all the time, but that doesn't mean we have to accept it. If you can't afford a real Rolex, change your life and find a way if it's that important to you!

Can't afford $15 Paulsons but put others down for paying the going rate, calling them idiots for not only wanting but making other sacrifices in life to make that happen. Again we are NOT all doctors and lawyers in this hobby. I'm a construction worker making $105k a year... how could I possibly have more than a years salary (pre taxed) invested in poker chips in just 3.5 years... that's insane! Well again SACRIFICES

I was honestly ok with it at first, a few of the design were ehh... OK. But then BTP, I understand a designer here made that, but other people paid for that design, tons of those chips were made and are even available now on the forum... cheap... no... but real!

What about the folks that paid $12 - $15 a chip because that was their dream set, made those really hard sacrifices and then people come along and make knock offs for $.40... this is awesome for the community! Everyone can have them now! Really?

Don't even get me started on copying IOC chips, seriously a recent chip room release? RHCs... there is nothing rare about those chips, they can still be found. Quicker, easier, cheaper... I mean sh*t why not get Amazon to carry them so you can just click them into your basket and use prime for free shipping.. get em tomorrow by a drone.

There was pride in this hobby, pride and dreams for "Grail Quest" building the impossible... now you can just sit back and wait for your dream set to come to you, just fill in your quantities and wait!

But you will NEVER know what it is like to add the 100th chip to a rack you spent 3 years looking everywhere and busting your ass to find! You will NEVER understand or grasp that level of satisfaction.

This crap is absolutely ruining what used to be a fun and exciting hobby!

You guys saying a couple hours on here you will know the difference... what happens when we run off all the people that love the originals and post about them and keep the info relavant.. what happens when that fades to the back pages and gets difficult to locate.

Original designs on Card Molds because of your budget! Bad ass Bro, congratulations,I hope they serve you well!

Direct copies made for people that can't pay a designer $5 to put a toilet and thumbs up poop emoji, or home town symbol on a chip and a denomination... you folks are ruining what used to be awesome... but what's new in this world.
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Yeah, all great points here and I honestly couldn't have put it better myself. I have a lot of respect for you in this hobby and you've always been a stand up dude and I will 100% corroborate what you've said about cards molds being slippy. I own over 1,000 of them across 2 sets and am selling all of them. They were great for a while and then they got worn and now they stack like ice. You're also right about this hobby changing as cheaper chips have made their way in. I will say that those of use that are older collectors know the value of the Paulson chips. I just think that some people just want a quick set of chips and they're the people that are always chasing the new sets. Building grail sets and completing projects is how I've built relationships on here and those relationships will last longer than the sets I have and are the more valuable than the chips themselves. New and old members that just go for the quick new sets and don't take the time to build those relationships aren't getting as much from this place and hobby as they could. But, for some people thats not what they want and thats totally okay.
 
bergs said:
Not implying that Ekricket is any of these people
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Haha I can guarantee I’m not any of those people you are describing. Quite the opposite for the most part.

I don’t even order CPC chips because it’s just too damn easy. Anybody can do that.

Not that I’m a snob, but I’m here for hunting stuff that’s real to me, not ordering crap from Amazon that any fool with $ can get.
 
Colquhoun said:
I have a framed poster of a famous painting in my home office. Its not a fake or a counterfeit, rather a photographic copy of the original.
It’s a great way for me enjoy and appreciate the piece in my own home for an item that is unattainable.
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This is so spot on it hurts.
 
bergs said:
Also some of the same people who would happily mislead Paulson to get Paulson chips for their home game or to sell have a problem with cards mold because it “rips off the artist or company”.

So they’re terrified of somehow defrauding a casino with a 1000 chip home game set but yeah let’s tell Paulson that we’re an international leisure travel company with a casino and get Paulsons, it’s all fair game.

This is one of the weirder threads I’ve seen recently.
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Also this x 100.
 
ekricket said:
I don’t even order CPC chips because it’s just too damn easy. Anybody can do that.

Not that I’m a snob, but I’m here for hunting stuff that’s real to me, not ordering crap from Amazon that any fool with $ can get.
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Sounds like cpc is precisely what you should be looking for. Money can’t buy taste.
 
opengun said:
Why buy them if not keeping them?
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Lol. It's how this place/hobby has evolved/devolved.

Anything of perceived value is snapped up in nanoseconds. (read any of the posts in a chip room sales thread after the sale has opened).

Given the high cost, people sometimes decide that the chips may not be exactly what they want and release them. If they're going to pay +$10/chip, it understandly needs to be perfect.

Although lots of folks snap up chips even if they are not collecting that particular chip or set.

They buy them in case someone they knows may want it, buy it to ransom/trade, or just to flip for profit.

It is what it is.
 
Better question is likely whether a PCF’er has gone too far? I doubt “Tina” sat around coming up with a new TinaHC mold with no indication whether there would be demand for same. Much more likely one of our own specifically requested it and guaranteed a large buy if it was created. Things like this don’t just “happen” in my experience.
 

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