Have Chinese cards mold replica sets gone too far? (5 Viewers)

[gopherblue]

Im gona dig up the prior owner of the New China club and make sure hes ok with us
copying his old chips. This thread I cant even.

I asked Bill Fong via a ouija board. He’s fine with it. I am too, I suppose, because at least I understand it when it comes to rare vintage sets. But NAGB sets? That’s lol to me.

 

[cpac54]

Is this really a thing?

God help me if my players ever found out the value of the rack of (real) BTP $0.25 Chips they play with…

 

[trigs]

View attachment 1028186

What's gonna happen is people are going to start selling the THC card molds on eBay, this is gonna cause a security uproar, as casinos have really held onto chips arnt THAT easy to copy. Add in the faux mold, and we now enter an age were chips stop being used and they make you use your players card like a debit, as it's more standard security then chips can now hold. They could care less if it's the real thing, they just don't want some careless worker to let a few slip and it start eating away on casino profits. And people will do anything for a buck. Add a few hundos to a stack, shrug and say "how was I suppose to know, it's chips. What am I? And expert?!?".

The downfall of our civilization....

Or I could just need to eat lunch. One of the two will happen...

Let's just say that all casinos stop using chips because of security reasons, knock-offs, whatever. Does that mean that all the chip manufacturers lose their primary customers and then have to turn to the general public to continue selling chips? Seems like there would be quite a few people on this forum that would fine with that

 

[ekricket]

Sounds like cpc is precisely what you should be looking for. Money can’t buy taste.

I prefer hunting order out of chaos. There’s always a pattern there, you just have to have the right viewpoint. It’s finding the viewpoint that’s the challenge.

 

[Bluegrass Poker]

Let's just say that all casinos stop using chips because of security reasons, knock-offs, whatever. Does that mean that all the chip manufacturers lose their primary customers and then have to turn to the general public to continue selling chips? Seems like there would be quite a few people on this forum that would fine with that

Yeah but not enough to keep them in business for long.

 

[Bill_Man618]

Let's be honest, is poker chip collecting all about status? Because to me, that is what it has become.

I don’t agree with this take. The hobby doesn’t represent status to me it represents a love for poker chips. Like many others have said in this thread, there are great people on here and if you work to build relationships you’d be surprised at how people will help you out. But you do have valid point since alot of new money has entered the hobby we have seen an astronomical rise in chip costs. This isn’t ideal and makes the hobby cost prohibitive for a lot of people, but I know I’ve sold chips to friends on here at cost before and others have done the same for me. It just takes more leg work to get good prices nowadays.

 

[allforcharity]

I don't care a whit if someone tries to defraud a casino with a half-baked faux-THC ceramic. That's all on the fraudster, and casinos have levels of security they don't advertise about on order to prevent it.

I'm worried about an individual or a company that may defraud a lot of new and budding chippers with a fake product being misrepresented for a real one because of a knowledge gap. If we are to call ourselves a community, then we have a collective responsibility to police these things, not encourage them.

 

[Okku]

The hobby represents a love for poker chips

^ this is what the hobby is all about. Whether that is playing with them, designing them, collecting, researching, loving the history or whatever it may be.

 

[LeLe]

kind of enjoy the moddest approach of allowing folks to play with a chip set that cost $10k for a $20 poker game. It’s not really an investment to me, it is a passion I get to enjoy withs friends, family and peirs!

On the other side of the world.

I been in a lot of $10k home games that used $200 poker chips instead

Been offering to use my Paulson / Casino Grade Plastic chips but no, they are paranoid about that

Also CM are pretty much going to stay and be a part due to the combination

- affordable pricing
- fully customised possibilities
- raising Clay pricing
- raising TCR pricing
- Flippers

 

[bergs]

I don't care a whit if someone tries to defraud a casino with a half-baked faux-THC ceramic. That's all on the fraudster, and casinos have levels of security they don't advertise about on order to prevent it.

I'm worried about an individual or a company that may defraud a lot of new and budding chippers with a fake product being misrepresented for a real one because of a knowledge gap. If we are to call ourselves a community, then we have a collective responsibility to police these things, not encourage them.

If you’re actually still worried about this being a community, this is easy to fix via an educational sticky on the main page of the site that walks people through the different types of chips out there. We tried to get Ten to do something similar on Chiptalk but lolpharaohs.

There are other much larger systemic problems plaguing “the community” but there is too much dissension to fix them. Example: flipping contributing to arbitrarily driving up chip prices beyond what 80% of the community can afford Vs 8 years ago.

 

[upNdown]

I'm worried about an individual or a company that may defraud a lot of new and budding chippers with a fake product being misrepresented for a real one because of a knowledge gap. If we are to call ourselves a community, then we have a collective responsibility to police these things, not encourage them.

I’m with you here. There are plenty of people who don’t know anything about chips except that hat and cane chips are the good ones.
But you might be preaching to the choir. Off the top of my head, it feels like the majority of PCFers who have given an opinion are opposed to a Chinese ceramic hat and cane mold. Which seems odd to me. We want to protect GPI/Paulson’s interest in its designs, but we don’t care to protect casino’s interest in their designs.

 

[JMC9389]

I’m with you here. There are plenty of people who don’t know anything about chips except that hat and cane chips are the good ones.
But you might be preaching to the choir. Off the top of my head, it feels like the majority of PCFers who have given an opinion are opposed to a Chinese ceramic hat and cane mold. Which seems odd to me. We want to protect GPI/Paulson’s interest in its designs, but we don’t care to protect casino’s interest in their designs.

Totally agree.

The minute that someone tries to pass off these supposed faux THC molded chips as the real thing is the day that thread crapping should be allowed again (IMO).

Why not just make a new mold if you're going to go that route? It invites nothing but trouble to rip off the Hat and Cane molds, IMO.

 

[TheDuke]

I don't care a whit if someone tries to defraud a casino with a half-baked faux-THC ceramic. That's all on the fraudster, and casinos have levels of security they don't advertise about on order to prevent it.

I'm worried about an individual or a company that may defraud a lot of new and budding chippers with a fake product being misrepresented for a real one because of a knowledge gap. If we are to call ourselves a community, then we have a collective responsibility to police these things, not encourage them.

Lol. Back in Chiptalk days, the owner of the site tried pawning off china clay chips as 'true compression molded clay' on the home page.

Quite a bit of outrage, but he refused to take it down. It contributed to the end of that site. See below.

 

[allforcharity]

Lol. Back in Chiptalk days, the owner of the site tried pawning off china clay chips as 'true compression molded clay' on the home page.

Quite a bit of outrage, but he refused to take it down. It contributed to the end of that site. See below.

View attachment 1028937

That is one of the most f'd up things I have ever seen.

 

[bergs]

Ten was a prick, fuck that guy.

If anyone tries to pass off Cards mold as Paulson, lemme at em. Until then, I wouldn’t worry about it much (and even if that happened, I wouldn’t worry about it much - someone just start a thread about China Cards Molds with pros and cons and ask Tommy to stick it permanently somewhere).

 

[louBdub]

I made it to page three…

Read the Ben book… @Ben8257

I concur.

I bought Amazon, because I was ignorant.

I bought Tina’s because I didn’t know a thing, and thought they looked cool.

Then I found out what real chips were………..

And paid out the ass for them, because I don’t give a fuck, I want what I want.

A Honda civic will get ya there…. But a Z06 is more fun…….. That’s all I gotta say about that. Oh, and play your fucking chips you weirdos…….

 

[davislane]

Cards Mold are the equivalent of cheap wine or cheap whiskey.

If you love the cheap stuff then that's great for you. There is plenty of it, so knock yourself out.

If you dont care about the difference between the cheap stuff and the expensive stuff thats great for you and me. Less people vying for the limited expensive choices. winning!

If you cant tell the difference between the cheap stuff and the expensive stuff and you want to learn, well you've come to the right place. If you dont want to learn you have also come to the right place.

Everyone is getting their knickers in a knot over nothing in my opinion. To take a different perspective, I see the cards mold as a psuedo filtering process. An entry exam of sorts. Don't fear the cards mold embrace it. Ultimately the cheap stuff will filter one way or another, who is here for a quick fix and who is here for the long haul. Did you pass the test?

If you want a quick fix and bug out no problemo. Get what you need and be on your way.

Now if you want to get deep in the weeds and attain scrub donkey status*, well that's going to take some time, but it's totally worth it (so I've heard). Becoming a chip nerd / chip aficionado / scrub donkey is a journey. It requires a level of commitment to reading, learning, interacting with the community etc. Anything worth obtaining in life requires effort so why should learning the nuances of this hobby be any different?

I know how many hours I've spent reading threads and posts and communicating with fellow members and the satisfaction its brought me. The juice has been worth the squeeze. So I thank you all for your contributions.

*P.S. I'm not quite at scrub donkey level yet but definitely have reached chip nerd status.

Ok cue all the smart-ass comments. I'm ready for you c**ts!

 

[upNdown]

Now if you want to get deep in the weeds and become a scrub donkey. Well thats a process, but totally worth it* (so ive heard). Becoming a chip nerd is a process. It requires a level of commitment to reading, learning, interacting with the community etc. Anything worth obtaining in life requires effort so why should learning the nuances of this hobby be any different?

I know how many hours Ive spent reading threads and posts and communicating with fellow members and the satisfaction its brought me. The juice has been worth the squeeze. So I thank you all for your contributions.

This should be required reading before opening an account.

 

[HaRDHouSeiNC]

Ten was a prick, fuck that guy.

Ten? Greg?

Lol. Back in Chiptalk days, the owner of the site tried pawning off china clay chips as 'true compression molded clay' on the home page.

Quite a bit of outrage, but he refused to take it down. It contributed to the end of that site. See below.

View attachment 1028937

I don’t really remember that but that was Greg pushing those ???
Really??

 

[Marius L]

Ten? Greg?

Greg aka TenPercenter

 

[mipevi]

I don’t really remember that but that was Greg pushing those ???
Really??

Yes he was, it was ridiculous. I think he owns/owned the rights to Pharaoh’s, so money talks and bs walks.

 

[bergs]

Ten? Greg?


I don’t really remember that but that was Greg pushing those ???
Really??

Well, they were on the front page of his site and he refused to take them down when multiple members pointed out that the Ad was misleading and not a good first look for new members.

So yeah, basically.

 

[HaRDHouSeiNC]

Well, they were on the front page of his site and he refused to take them down when multiple members pointed out that the Ad was misleading and not a good first look for new members.

So yeah, basically.

Ok now TenPercenter sounds familiar again.

I Think the last year or two there I was never on either site so I missed some stuffz

 

[HaRDHouSeiNC]

Yes he was, it was ridiculous. I think he owns/owned the rights to Pharaoh’s, so money talks and bs walks.

I didn’t know he did.
I thought that would have been HoldemPokerChips owner was the owner.

 

[TheDuke]

Yes he was, it was ridiculous. I think he owns/owned the rights to Pharaoh’s, so money talks and bs walks.

Ten? Greg?


I don’t really remember that but that was Greg pushing those ???
Really??

Yeah, I think Greg owned the rights to the Pharaoh design so he had incentive for the china clay version to sell well.

And if you recall, he also went full bore trying to monetize almost every aspect of forum access. Classified access required buying tokens, paid membership for basic things like PM's, etc, etc.

 

[glynn]

For me, it‘s akin to selling (and showcasing!) Fauxlexes on The Rolex Forum. Like, I do get it, but should we be promoting it?

This is an interesting observation that has received little attention up until the recent comments about Pharaoh's.

The analogy is a little off though, as I also wouldn't expect the The Rolex Forum to feature discussions about non-Rolex or non-mechanical watches any more than I would expect The Paulson Forum to feature discussions about non-Paulson or non-clay chips. (I don't hang out on any Rolex forums, so forgive me if my expectations are wrong.)

This is not The Paulson Forum though, and if it were, the debate about what does and does not belong in it would be shifted to the clay space. You know that there would be threads about whether CPC clay has a seat there. The line can be challenged up to and including the name and stated mission of the forum.

Still, as a relative newbie to this hobby, I do find it weird that discussions about knockoffs (and honestly even about ceramics) appear alongside discussions of real compression clay chips. However, I also find it weird that $15/chip collections appear alongside $0.30/chip sets. The scope of this forum makes as much of a distinction between Rolexes and Faulexes as it does between Rolexes and Timexes.

My refined understanding is that this forum covers all betting tokens and related topics, as the interest is too niche to practically separate it out further.

 

[Samuel]

Counterfeit money is usually not printed on the same paper nor does it use the same ink as the original. That’s what makes it counterfeit, it’s not the same but it resembles it enough to pass as the same.

It’s literally part of the definition of counterfeit to use different materials than the original to simulate the original.

Just to add a couple of (real) pesos: I've seen quite a few counterfeit bills (USD) - ranging from "I can't believe you accepted that!" (blurry printing, on regular paper, not even the correct size, etc) to "that might have fooled me too, if I was in a hurry and/or didn't know what to look for..." (printed on actual US paper currency paper (bills were washed/bleached clean), excellent quality printing, etc)

 

[satisfyingbutton]

Without completely reading the thread again, has anyone yet asked if these chips have gone FAR ENOUGH?!

Joking aside, I see the concerns about copyright as a real thing. No one wants their intellectual property farmed out from underneath them. That said, some sets clearly use designs that are never going to see the light of day again. These tributes seem fine, even if they exist in a morally gray area.

To add some insight from another collectors' community, this does have some overlap with bootleg Magic: The Gathering cards. Once prices get crazy, people who want to play the cards want SOMETHING to play with that approximates the real thing. The difference here being that these chips seem more akin to cards that you'd print off of your computer at home rather than counterfeits that went through the trouble of replicating paper stock, print finishes, holographic details, etc. I think there is room for a difference between "I want to play these with my buddies at home who know what's going on" vs. "I have these nearly identical replicas that could easily be passed off for the real thing".

 

[ekricket]

You know, a cigar and snifter mold would be easier for a lot of people to accept

 

[SeanGecko]

You know, a cigar and snifter mold would be easier for a lot of people to accept

Top hat and cane always seemed to bourgeoisie to me. When I first saw those I was so happy then incredibly bummed since they were price prohibited.

I'd prefer an original mold but would be good to see the cigar and snifter mold.

We need more options in this hobby.