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Have Chinese cards mold replica sets gone too far? (1 Viewer)

BonScot said:
The difference in quality between ABC / BRPro compared to the CM chips was really obvious to me.

Everyone will have different opinions but I think that the ABC / BRPro chips are worth it.
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In the past year or so, I've ordered one set from BRPro and one set from Tina.

I bought from BRPro because I know that I get high quality chips from a vendor who will stand behind their product, and a guarantee that they won't sell the same chips on Alibaba the next week.

I bought from Tina because I could get a big cash set of a long-closed casino design (New China Club), and I will never in this lifetime own a playable set of the originals. So far I've had no issues with quality, but at the price I paid, I'm willing to take the risk that they might wear out and hit the trash can much sooner than a set from elsewhere.
 
BarrieJ3 said:
So the point was an affordable chip option.

One real question, why are these .50 a piece. We're ordering well into tens and hundreds of thousands of chips. That means we're ordering tens of thousands of dollars (6 figures) of chips from an alibaba producer.

So if we weren't worried about replicas and copying molds (which again I personally don't care about), why aren't we going to someone other than Tina to drive the price down? Or has all the work we’ve done with her and what they created just not transferable?

The China Clays were pretty much not worth it for most people at .10 a chip. I can't imagine that long term these have staying power at .50. If they do, feels like someone would come in and undercut.
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A couple of points.
  1. When could you buy decent china clays for 10 cents, and in your choice of breakdown? Not as long as I've been here - 3.5 years. China clays from Apache are are in the same 50 cent range. Lower cost china clays need to be sourced used, and when they go on sale, you get what you get. And the better ones like PGI 8Vs are about 25 cents. Even sluggos when bought new at retail are 20 cents and up.
  2. These latest 50 cent chips are not cards mold. Cards mold are still available for around 40 cents. The new hybrids are a step up from cards mold. The scrowns are really nice. I have a small sample set and they are good enough that I'm considering getting a large set of them in place of a custom CPC order that I've been planning.
  3. Also, the 50 cent cost is more than just the chip. Tina's ask is quite a bit less, but you are also baking in shipping from China and art design fees at that price.
Edit: Almost forgot. Yeah, the scrowns are nice. But the new Greek Key mold? KILLER!

1695581764650.png
 
TX_Golf_N_Poker said:
A couple of points.
  1. When could you buy decent china clays for 10 cents, and in your choice of breakdown? Not as long as I've been here - 3.5 years. China clays from Apache are are in the same 50 cent range. Lower cost china clays need to be sourced used, and when they go on sale, you get what you get. And the better ones like PGI 8Vs are about 25 cents. Even sluggos when bought new at retail are 20 cents and up.
  2. These latest 50 cent chips are not cards mold. Cards mold are still available for around 40 cents. The new hybrids are a step up from cards mold. The scrowns are really nice. I have a small sample set and they are good enough that I'm considering getting a large set of them in place of a custom CPC order that I've been planning.
  3. Also, the 50 cent cost is more than just the chip. Tina's ask is quite a bit less, but you are also baking in shipping from China and art design fees at that price.
Edit: Almost forgot. Yeah, the scrowns are nice. But the new Greek Key mold? KILLER!
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Blank China clays available at .10 by abc a couple years back. By the thousands. I had 20,000 of em I think.

That’s besides the point. Everyone’s “points” are great and appreciated - they also have nothing to do with what I posted/am asking :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:

Is this where the price point will lie, .50 a chip, $400-$1k+ per set, for nice entry level chips? Are we locked into Tina because of the work and collaboration thus far, or will price be driven down by the unlimited amount of providers overseas?

Kinda rhetorical. It’s a great option for people doing customs. But I’ll wait for the answers to come about on pricing and quality to place a future order.
 
BarrieJ3 said:
Blank China clays available at .10 by abc a couple years back. By the thousands. I had 20,000 of em I think.

That’s besides the point. Everyone’s “points” are great and appreciated - they also have nothing to do with what I posted/am asking :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:

Is this where the price point will lie, .50 a chip, $400-$1k+ per set, for nice entry level chips? Are we locked into Tina because of the work and collaboration thus far, or will price be driven down by the unlimited amount of providers overseas?

Kinda rhetorical. It’s a great option for people doing customs. But I’ll wait for the answers to come about on pricing and quality to place a future order.
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Sorry if I missed something. I tried to address the points you made. That 10 cent sale was an anomaly. By the time I got here, a lot of the colors were gone. And that was one specific design. Customization meant custom labels which added at least double what that original 10 cent cost was.

I'm sure you recall that I eventually did buy a bunch of them from you, which I still have and use. And still like very much. At that same time, I think Milanos were about 32-35 cents and were the cheapest china clays available at retail. And again, with no customization at that price. So if you consider cards mold at 40 cents to be the current entry level, I think that's right in the same ballpark, given the current economy and inflation we've experienced since 2020. And if you add that there's no material additional customization cost, I could argue that they are still just as cheap as those 10 cent 8Vs.

To me, 40-50 cents still seems about right for entry level, especially when it includes going full custom. And I think you may have a small issue with your math. 400 chips ($200) will get you a good STT breakdown, and 600-800 ($300-400) will make a nice "entry level" cash set. So you could get one of each for less than $600. Anyone spending north of that is going well beyond entry level.

Is it possible that we could negotiate a lower price? Maybe someone like @justincarothers could answer that question. I've only placed one order directly with Tina myself, and any negotiating had already been done by others at that time. Given that a big chunk of the cost is shipping, I doubt even if we could that it would be more than a few pennies. Hardly enough to make any real difference.
 
Just a data point for those that care, the Tina set I ordered just about a year ago (link below) came at to .45/chip which included shipping (via air).

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/the-pines-tournament-cm-tina.96396/

I just ordered an add on to this through the Justin GB. Price on that is .44/chip including shipping (to Justin then from him to me). That however is not Air obviously.

Initial art fees not included though. With that added in it will still be under .50/chip.
 
I will respond to the original post. Tina and the new card molds have not crossed any boundaries in my opinion. Considering the current market where tigers are priced at $6 to $10 or more, Tina's molds are exceptional and have arrived at the perfect moment. Hash tag blessed.

The only issue I have encountered after purchasing multiple sets of card molds is that Reno's New Chinas do not yet offer a mock-up cash design for a $500. It would be amazing to have one of those! Keep up the great work, Tina, as I will continue to purchase your products for years to come.
 
Lol I should have posted in unpopular opinion thread! I think I'm just a cheap bas**rd.

I 100% see the value in this for customs. With what all you can do and the price, makes total sense.

It's just hard for me probably because I don't have a lot of creativity, and when great RHC sets are available for around $1 a chip, I'm just not looking to put blood, sweat, tears, and .50+ a chip into a copiable entry level custom.

I did however hear that others can't order from Tina directly for the new mold. If I can purchase a personal mold, I'm in!
 
BarrieJ3 said:
Lol I should have posted in unpopular opinion thread! I think I'm just a cheap bas**rd.

I 100% see the value in this for customs. With what all you can do and the price, makes total sense.

It's just hard for me probably because I don't have a lot of creativity, and when great RHC sets are available for around $1 a chip, I'm just not looking to put blood, sweat, tears, and .50+ a chip into a copiable entry level custom.

I did however hear that others can't order from Tina directly for the new mold. If I can purchase a personal mold, I'm in!
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And for so many people to dump on Tigers publicly, claiming it was a socially engineered whirlwind of FOMO - well, I don't think anyone can deny that as at least not partially true, there's always a psychological component.

But, and I'm trying to frame this in nice, non-conflicty words, let's be honest here and say that people aren't being honest here. Similar whirlwind happening around Tina with a new option. There are a ton of dumpster fire sets being created through Tina that most people would just drop off at goodwill. So while there is a space for Tina (in my head it's for an awesome custom limit set!), it's also created a ton of meaningful, custom, beauty is in the eye of the beholder garbage sludge.

I'm not arguing with anyone, and no reader I'm not talking about *your* set, maybe I'm just selfishly sighing because every Tom Dick and Larry aren't being forced into the tank to perfect their customs before dropping in their thousands of dollars order. Instead, I'm left with collecting customs that pale in comparison to the great productions of old. Quick, someone, revive me with a beautiful custom CPC new release thread! :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:
 
BarrieJ3 said:
And for so many people to dump on Tigers publicly, claiming it was a socially engineered whirlwind of FOMO - well, I don't think anyone can deny that as at least not partially true, there's always a psychological component.

But, and I'm trying to frame this in nice, non-conflicty words, let's be honest here and say that people aren't being honest here. Similar whirlwind happening around Tina with a new option. There are a ton of dumpster fire sets being created through Tina that most people would just drop off at goodwill. So while there is a space for Tina (in my head it's for an awesome custom limit set!), it's also created a ton of meaningful, custom, beauty is in the eye of the beholder garbage sludge.

I'm not arguing with anyone, and no reader I'm not talking about *your* set, maybe I'm just selfishly sighing because every Tom Dick and Larry aren't being forced into the tank to perfect their customs before dropping in their thousands of dollars order. Instead, I'm left with collecting customs that pale in comparison to the great productions of old. Quick, someone, revive me with a beautiful custom CPC new release thread! :ROFL: :ROFLMAO:
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I am just looking forward to the first TINA set winning that design of the year competition. :D
 
ngmcs8203 said:
I am just looking forward to the first TINA set winning that design of the year competition. :D
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Oh god please no. I can be accepting of changing times and see the value in Tina, but please not this. I'll get banned for a 3rd (4th?) time because of a TINA centric design of the year thread.

As a customs sample collector, I fear this is the future we're hurtling towards:

1695659951664.png
 
BarrieJ3 said:
Oh god please no. I can be accepting of changing times and see the value in Tina, but please not this. I'll get banned for a 3rd (4th?) time because of a TINA centric design of the year thread.

As a customs sample collector, I fear this is the future we're hurtling towards:

View attachment 1200809
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I’ll be sure to tag you in it if I end up with a submission. :P
 
BarrieJ3 said:
Oh god please no. I can be accepting of changing times and see the value in Tina, but please not this. I'll get banned for a 3rd (4th?) time because of a TINA centric design of the year thread.

As a customs sample collector, I fear this is the future we're hurtling towards:

View attachment 1200809
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Also there are quite a few crappy looking CPC designs floating around out there. I don’t think the medium dictates the awful design decisions.
 
ngmcs8203 said:
I’ll be sure to tag you in it if I end up with a submission. :p
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Come bask in the glow of the beauty that is the great custom sample wall of The Continental. Until then we can forgive your misgivings.
ngmcs8203 said:
Also there are quite a few crappy looking CPC designs floating around out there. I don’t think the medium dictates the awful design decisions.
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Actually, 100%. You'll find those on my wall as well. The big difference? Oohs and Aahs when you hit or miss with a high-end custom order.

Unfortunately, it *is* the heightened cost that creates both a greater risk but also greater delivery. When a hatchet job Tina custom is released, no one is around to hear it. Spend good money and poop the bed on something like a CPC custom?! Guaranteed there are chipper text groups commenting on "damn did you see that thread? they fucked up that progression on higher denoms". No one will post replies in bad taste (you hope).

Long story short, definitely a huge difference in % of successful projects.

Then again, we just may be old men gnashing our teeth and wailing into the prevailing eastern winds of China.
 
JMC9389 said:
Probably lighting a match near a tinder box in saying this, but as long as I'm running the set of the year voting, ceramics/Tina/Anita is going to be it's own subcategory from custom clays.
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it’s gonna be like Hollywood and streaming services. At first all of the streaming services were getting snubbed, then silo’d, then winning all the awards.
 
BarrieJ3 said:
Lol I should have posted in unpopular opinion thread! I think I'm just a cheap bas**rd.

I 100% see the value in this for customs. With what all you can do and the price, makes total sense.

It's just hard for me probably because I don't have a lot of creativity, and when great RHC sets are available for around $1 a chip, I'm just not looking to put blood, sweat, tears, and .50+ a chip into a copiable entry level custom.

I did however hear that others can't order from Tina directly for the new mold. If I can purchase a personal mold, I'm in!
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Pretty sure you can. Just check with Justin or Danny. It's my understanding, at least for the moment, that Tina is honoring their commitment to not sell the new molds except through the owner of the mold. No promises how long that might last, but for now that is where we are.
 
JeepologyOffroad said:
I’m a fan of Tina customs and the value they can provide. There are a lot of cool sets out there… but there’s no reason to sugar coat it. It is playing in the sandbox for most.
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Absolutely. I'm all for putting the original customs up to a vote. Tributes/copies of existing chips need not apply.
 

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