Hot Take: Small Blinds are Unnecessary in Cash Games (4 Viewers)

[BGinGA]

Just wanted to add that IF playing 1st/2nd blinds (vs sb/bb), in an unentered pot where the 1st blind player (incorrectly) checks, the only acceptable actions by the 2nd blind player are "chop" or "all-in". None of this boring weenie time-wasting check-check bs.

 

[Highli99]

Do I have to join a gang now? Goddamnit, I just got here.


Alright, whats the colors of each gang? Edge spots?

The TRK Crew has the worst initiation.

 

[dinosaur]

You can change the blinds?? What?!!

 

[MrCatPants]

How is small blind winning the vote and not f#^÷ @Josh Kifer ?

 

[MrCatPants]

As much as I enjoy Josh Kifer's posts (especially ones with dog pictures and angry emojis), I really have no desire to f*^% him.

As far as the Small Blind issue, I can happily play .25/.50 , 25/.25 or .50/.50. Doesn't really rise to the level of a burning issue for me. Although from your title I thought that you were lobbying to eliminate the first blind altogether and only have a single (Big) Blind. That would just seem weird...

Some people here seem to support the single blind strategy though. Just seems like it would kill post flop action to have only one person thinking about defending.

 

[Josh Kifer]

How is small blind winning the vote and not f#^÷ @Josh Kifer ?

Because it's a way to setup the vote for the F the blinds to win, and people noticed it.

Duh.

 

[MrCatPants]

Because it's a way to setup the vote for the F the blinds to win, and people noticed it.

Duh.

This disrespect is going in your permanent file.

 

[Josh Kifer]

This disrespect is going in your permanent file.

YOURE NOT MY FATHER! *slams bathroom door*

 

[timinater]

We switched to an equal two blinds a while ago and haven't looked back. Simple is good.

 

[Marius L]

We often forego the blinds and mandate straddle on the button, 5 to 15, dealer's discretion. As I don't assume there is only one game people are playing, I'll be explicit, this is typically omaha.

It wouldn't work for holdem too many nits, they'd lose 1.50 - 2 an orbit!

That sounds pretty horrible to be honest. Both for holdem and omaha. Zero incentive to play out off position. I really dislike button straddling in general, but would do it even more so without any blinds in the pot as well.

 

[Machine]

That sounds pretty horrible to be honest. Both for holdem and omaha. Zero incentive to play out off position. I really dislike button straddling in general, but would do it even more so without any blinds in the pot as well.

it's a 1 / 2 with a Mississippi straddle (straddle from anywhere, priority is button then worse position), you can straddle up to 15, and you can bring it in for 15 from anywhere. One night the host straddled for 4 hours straight, I was to his immediate left.

Oh yeah, you can also 'over bet' the pot, and its on the players to 'call back' the bet. If there is 20 bucks in the pot and someone wants to bet 460, you can, but if one of players wants to only call 20, then the bet is 20, otherwise all parties can call the 460.

Action isn't a problem in that VPIP is low, we even have re-straddles, last time I played about 2 weeks ago, we had a single limp pot for $2 in 8 hours of play

 

[Mojo1312]

IMO, the small blind/big blind structure is outdated, and has been for some time. Players understand today the value in defending their SB. Very rarely do you see a player fold their SB in a limped pot. Having two different blinds is completely unnecessary in flop games that don't require a mandatory straddle.

If someone is folding their .25 or .50 SB in a limped pot, then they are likely not a profitable player.

 

[Marius L]

I guess it works for your game then. And if everyone enjoys it, why not! And maybe I'm a huge nit, lol. I just find button straddling super annoying (missisippi straddle in general), and wont allow it in my game.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

I thought the same thing initially, and began girding my loins for battle. Then I realized he still want to 2 blinds. 2 blinds is okay. 3 blinds is preferable. 1 blind is terrible.

I respect your opinion, but I'm also curious to hear your reasoning. Why is one blind terrible?

 

[Schmendr1ck]

How is small blind winning the vote and not f#^÷ @Josh Kifer ?

As of now, 18 of 28 votes say F*#$ @Josh Kifer. I think that's a bit low but trending in the right direction.

 

[Josh Kifer]

As of now, 18 of 28 votes say F*#$ @Josh Kifer. I think that's a bit low but trending in the right direction.

We can do better and make PCF Great and Glorious again.

 

[JMC9389]

IMO, the small blind/big blind structure is outdated, and has been for some time. Players understand today the value in defending their SB. Very rarely do you see a player fold their SB in a limped pot. Having two different blinds is completely unnecessary in flop games that don't require a mandatory straddle.

If someone is folding their .25 or .50 SB in a limped pot, then they are likely not a profitable player.

Yep. When folded to, SB should literally be raising 100% of the time in a cash game.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

Some people here seem to support the single blind strategy though. Just seems like it would kill post flop action to have only one person thinking about defending.

I think it's definitely dependent on your group, but I've played (and hosted) single blind games with plenty of action.

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

... often making an additional denomination or additional chips necessary, ....

Debate closed. You just made the case for why you need a small blind.

 

[MeridianFC]

SB/BB/Straddle. Fuck everything else. Y'all go eat quinoa and listen to your Dan Fogelburg. Your pac man video games..... Ruining the world.

I dunno, reminding me of Dan Fogelberg definitely makes a strong case for the "Fuck You" choice.

 

[Josh Kifer]

Debate closed. You just made the case for why you need a small blind.

I think we need to vote @MrCatPants off the PCF Island....

 

[Josh Kifer]

I dunno, reminding me of Dan Fogelberg definitely makes a strong case for the "Fuck You" choice.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

Yep. When limped to, SB should literally be raising 100% of the time in a cash game.

Respectfully disagree.

Many games are super loose-passive pre, and always raising limpers from SB is dramatically increasing variance at best, and lighting money on fire at worst.

Do you really want to see a flop five ways from worst possible position with 84o? If so, please DM me an invite to your game.

 

[Josh Kifer]

Respectfully disagree.

Many games are super loose-passive pre, and always raising limpers from SB is dramatically increasing variance at best, and lighting money on fire at worst.

Do you really want to see a flop five ways from worst possible position with 84o? If so, please DM me an invite to your game.

At our table, these people either do great (20% of the time) or get destroyed (80%).

Raise every time on your small blind on limpers? Plz.

 

[Machine]

IMO, the small blind/big blind structure is outdated, and has been for some time. Players understand today the value in defending their SB. Very rarely do you see a player fold their SB in a limped pot. Having two different blinds is completely unnecessary in flop games that don't require a mandatory straddle.

If someone is folding their .25 or .50 SB in a limped pot, then they are likely not a profitable player.

Go on...

What then, is the purpose of the small blind and big blind? AND why is it outdated?

(we'll assume NLH or Pot Limit Omaha, aka communal flop games)

 

[Mojo1312]

Go on...

What then, is the purpose of the small blind and big blind? AND why is it outdated?

(we'll assume NLH or Omaha, aka communal flop games)

What I am in favor of is posting two blinds of equal value.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

If someone is folding their .25 or .50 SB in a limped pot, then they are likely not a profitable player.

Also think this is highly game dependent. In some games, limping every trash hand from the SB all night long is just burning money.

 

[Josh Kifer]

Also think this is highly game dependent. In some games, limping every trash hand from the SB all night long is just burning money.

Depends on the table and each players play. Our game you gain by limping, some games it's a easy way to kill your stack. Every games gonna be different and unique.

 

[Mojo1312]

Also think this is highly game dependent. In some games, limping every trash hand from the SB all night long is just burning money.

Games that passive still exist?

 

[Schmendr1ck]

What then, is the purpose of the small blind and big blind? AND why is it outdated?

What I am in favor of is posting two blinds of equal value.

I think both SB/BB and BB/BB structures accomplish the same purpose, which is to drive action by forcing players in bad positions to put money in the pot.

An argument might be made that a BB/BB structure drives more action than SB/BB. Players are forced to post more money each orbit and should defend their blinds a bit more aggressively to make up for it.

Is this a big deal for most recreational players who don't care about eking out an extra 0.5BB/100 from the .25/.50 home game? Nah. But if you're a pro or playing at stakes where the money really matters to you, then it can be important.