Cash Game How I Bank at a Home Game in an Increasingly Cashless Society (1 Viewer)

[30YEARFIX]

I am awakening an old thread but I think we have found a great way to do banking at our home games.

First a disclaimer - we all know each other and everyone is good for their funds. We always settle up end of the night but 95% do cashless payments so we extend credit at the table.

Initially everyone comes in tells banker how much they are buying in for. It gets written down and chips are handed to them.

As people need to top up same, announce to banker. Banker issues chips and amount is written in ledger on his phone.

End of the night when it’s time to settle up, everyone is responsible for giving back their credit. Say someone lost took $300 credit from the bank and has only $100 in chip stack end of the night, they will find a winner and pay them for their $200 in chips. That person settles with them, then they give their cresit back to the banker.

This becomes real good because everyone is responsible for settling up and it’s easy to know who owes what.

only potential issues - when someone leaves early they need to cash out and settle what they owe with the bank or it gets written their profit and someone will settle for chips end of the night.

Second is if you don’t write all transactions or don’t hand out correct stacks things get messed up but usually that doesn’t happen.

Let me know what you guys think!

 

[toothpic]

I am awakening an old thread but I think we have found a great way to do banking at our home games.

First a disclaimer - we all know each other and everyone is good for their funds. We always settle up end of the night but 95% do cashless payments so we extend credit at the table.

Initially everyone comes in tells banker how much they are buying in for. It gets written down and chips are handed to them.

As people need to top up same, announce to banker. Banker issues chips and amount is written in ledger on his phone.

End of the night when it’s time to settle up, everyone is responsible for giving back their credit. Say someone lost took $300 credit from the bank and has only $100 in chip stack end of the night, they will find a winner and pay them for their $200 in chips. That person settles with them, then they give their cresit back to the banker.

This becomes real good because everyone is responsible for settling up and it’s easy to know who owes what.

only potential issues - when someone leaves early they need to cash out and settle what they owe with the bank or it gets written their profit and someone will settle for chips end of the night.

Second is if you don’t write all transactions or don’t hand out correct stacks things get messed up but usually that doesn’t happen.

Let me know what you guys think!

I did this for a while as well. Biggest problem for us was we all drink during the game as it's a very social game. There were times I ended up short because I forgot to write some down. We have self dealt game as well so sometimes I'm dealing the next hand or still in a hand. Some one else is always willing to deal for me, but the more you drink the more you're bound to forget something

 

[QuailValley]

We do 100% cashless at the game I host semi-regularly. Everyone has Venmo so its a bit easier just tracking it there.

We have a standard buy-in of $25 (0.25/0.25 blinds all night). Anyone felted can re-buy up to $25. They send me the cash via Venmo, once received I write it down in a field notes notebook that lives in my chip case, then they get the chips. Its easy, straight forward, and drunk proof (which we have been a few times). Also when we do re buys and stuff we just pause the game and handle business.

Honestly if you are running a friendly home game for cash K.I.S.S. is the rule, especially if you as the host are playing and drinking as well.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

I am awakening an old thread but I think we have found a great way to do banking at our home games.

First a disclaimer - we all know each other and everyone is good for their funds. We always settle up end of the night but 95% do cashless payments so we extend credit at the table.

Initially everyone comes in tells banker how much they are buying in for. It gets written down and chips are handed to them.

As people need to top up same, announce to banker. Banker issues chips and amount is written in ledger on his phone.

End of the night when it’s time to settle up, everyone is responsible for giving back their credit. Say someone lost took $300 credit from the bank and has only $100 in chip stack end of the night, they will find a winner and pay them for their $200 in chips. That person settles with them, then they give their cresit back to the banker.

This becomes real good because everyone is responsible for settling up and it’s easy to know who owes what.

only potential issues - when someone leaves early they need to cash out and settle what they owe with the bank or it gets written their profit and someone will settle for chips end of the night.

Second is if you don’t write all transactions or don’t hand out correct stacks things get messed up but usually that doesn’t happen.

Let me know what you guys think!

Okay, I'm glad it works for you guys but I'm going to be critical because we'eve heard this story before, it works well until it doesn't. I don't like the idea of one of my players being responsible and keeping track of debts.

"And its easy to know who owes what" I don't get this part, its much easier to know who owes what when its just the person that owes it, no finding a winner and requesting credit, they just send the money.

Your 1 and 2 are very open ended issues that just happen sometimes, but can be avoided by just sending the money, cash or venmo, before playing. I run a super friendly game too, cash and venmo whatever works, but the money changes hands before I give the chips out. Makes everything simpler and removes the two issues you note.

 

[grantc54]

I am awakening an old thread but I think we have found a great way to do banking at our home games.

First a disclaimer - we all know each other and everyone is good for their funds. We always settle up end of the night but 95% do cashless payments so we extend credit at the table.

Initially everyone comes in tells banker how much they are buying in for. It gets written down and chips are handed to them.

As people need to top up same, announce to banker. Banker issues chips and amount is written in ledger on his phone.

End of the night when it’s time to settle up, everyone is responsible for giving back their credit. Say someone lost took $300 credit from the bank and has only $100 in chip stack end of the night, they will find a winner and pay them for their $200 in chips. That person settles with them, then they give their cresit back to the banker.

This becomes real good because everyone is responsible for settling up and it’s easy to know who owes what.

only potential issues - when someone leaves early they need to cash out and settle what they owe with the bank or it gets written their profit and someone will settle for chips end of the night.

Second is if you don’t write all transactions or don’t hand out correct stacks things get messed up but usually that doesn’t happen.

Let me know what you guys think!

What happens when someone has overextended themselves and can't pay their credit? Who is on the hook for that money?

You never know who is a deadbeat or has gambling issues until you find out the hard way.

I prefer not to give anyone the opportunity to exhibit this behavior to me. The same reason I lock up the prize money even though I "trust" everyone at my games. There are a few people I will extend credit personally to, but it is only a small handful of people.

 

[30YEARFIX]

Okay, I'm glad it works for you guys but I'm going to be critical because we'eve heard this story before, it works well until it doesn't. I don't like the idea of one of my players being responsible and keeping track of debts.

"And its easy to know who owes what" I don't get this part, its much easier to know who owes what when its just the person that owes it, no finding a winner and requesting credit, they just send the money.

Your 1 and 2 are very open ended issues that just happen sometimes, but can be avoided by just sending the money, cash or venmo, before playing. I run a super friendly game too, cash and venmo whatever works, but the money changes hands before I give the chips out. Makes everything simpler and removes the two issues you note.

I hear you. The biggest issue with our game is it can get kind of large. $5/$5 it’s not uncommon for people to be up or down $1-$2k at the end of the night.

Everyone bringing large amounts of cash is not feasible (or safe) and Venmo in advance just has unneeded transactions in the cloud

 

[davesilver88]

I've hosted 8 games this year. I require cash. I won't turn people away if they don't have cash, but I give them grief. And the only person who hasn't brought cash is my brother, who now knows to stop at the bank before hand.

People know I take time to go to the bank and get small bills for the end of the night so everyone can get their exact change (rounding down to the nearest dollar if playing with quarters). So this helps put the pressure on people to go the bank and get cash. Quite frankly, I find it odd that people would show up to a home poker game without cash. Then again, I am 36 years old - not too old, but not too young.

 

[30YEARFIX]

What happens when someone has overextended themselves and can't pay their credit? Who is on the hook for that money?

You never know who is a deadbeat or has gambling issues until you find out the hard way.

I prefer not to give anyone the opportunity to exhibit this behavior to me. The same reason I lock up the prize money even though I "trust" everyone at my games. There are a few people I will extend credit personally to, but it is only a small handful of people.

It’s not really the banker or one specific person extending credit. It is the whole table. If someone comes who is a friend of a friend or not comfortable of course paying prior to adding on is okay - this is just how we do it. Mostly regulars who play weekly. But yes obv if people can’t pay that’s an issue. This just what’s been working for a few yrs for us.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

I hear you. The biggest issue with our game is it can get kind of large. $5/$5 it’s not uncommon for people to be up or down $1-$2k at the end of the night.

Everyone bringing large amounts of cash is not feasible (or safe) and Venmo in advance just has unneeded transactions in the cloud

Fair, much bigger than I expected. With that kind of money I'd be stricter but I don't know y'all. Best of luck, just scary when there's lots of stories like yours about how it works on trust until one night it doesn't and gets real awkward. Sounds like a blast though, great job keeping it going!

 

[Poker Zombie]

I am awakening an old thread but I think we have found a great way to do banking at our home games.

First a disclaimer - we all know each other and everyone is good for their funds. We always settle up end of the night but 95% do cashless payments so we extend credit at the table.

Initially everyone comes in tells banker how much they are buying in for. It gets written down and chips are handed to them.

As people need to top up same, announce to banker. Banker issues chips and amount is written in ledger on his phone.

End of the night when it’s time to settle up, everyone is responsible for giving back their credit. Say someone lost took $300 credit from the bank and has only $100 in chip stack end of the night, they will find a winner and pay them for their $200 in chips. That person settles with them, then they give their cresit back to the banker.

This becomes real good because everyone is responsible for settling up and it’s easy to know who owes what.

only potential issues - when someone leaves early they need to cash out and settle what they owe with the bank or it gets written their profit and someone will settle for chips end of the night.

Second is if you don’t write all transactions or don’t hand out correct stacks things get messed up but usually that doesn’t happen.

Let me know what you guys think!

I'm glad this works for you, but I smell potential issues...

• It is hard to grow a game where wins and losses are on the honor system. Adding a new player involves a certain risk as they are new, and thus their credit is being taken as a leap of faith.
• Figuring out who owes who can be a little challenging. Not exactly advanced math, but not exactly easy when tired and/or drunk. Player A loses $125, player B loses $15, Player C wins $20, Player D wins $20, and player E wins $100. So A pays E $100 ,D $20 and C $5 with C waiting to find out who A paid so he can make up the difference. Again, not hard, but cash is way easier.
• How do you handle players that leave early? Do they just wait to figure out who they owe, via text the next day?

 

[Machine]

I hear you. The biggest issue with our game is it can get kind of large. $5/$5 it’s not uncommon for people to be up or down $1-$2k at the end of the night.

Everyone bringing large amounts of cash is not feasible (or safe) and Venmo in advance just has unneeded transactions in the cloud

Yeah, that’s a bit too much trust imo. I’ve seen wives shut games down for less and you’re adding evidence via electronic payments

I’ve seen and heard shit that you wouldn’t believe. One of my favorites is “God told me not to pay you”.. as he weltched on a 3k debt.

There is a less common saying amongst riders (motorcycle)

There are two types of riders, those who have been down and those who are going down, hope your game can fade it.

Also maybe you’re not aware, the host is responsible for every one getting paid out. Maybe you don’t think so, but a lot of people would aggressively disagree

 

[30YEARFIX]

I'm glad this works for you, but I smell potential issues...

• It is hard to grow a game where wins and losses are on the honor system. Adding a new player involves a certain risk as they are new, and thus their credit is being taken as a leap of faith.
• Figuring out who owes who can be a little challenging. Not exactly advanced math, but not exactly easy when tired and/or drunk. Player A loses $125, player B loses $15, Player C wins $20, Player D wins $20, and player E wins $100. So A pays E $100 ,D $20 and C $5 with C waiting to find out who A paid so he can make up the difference. Again, not hard, but cash is way easier.
• How do you handle players that leave early? Do they just wait to figure out who they owe, via text the next day?

Growing the game is luckily not an issue right now. Last couple sessions were ten man and we had to cap it.

So it works like this, we all know each other so say you are down $300 and owe that towards you credit. And another player who’s up a lot, you will settle with him to buy the $300 in chips and give it back to the bank. The player that settled with you is collecting his profit. At the end of the game everyone is figuring out who they will settle with. it’s not complicated because everyone knows they need to buy chips from a winner and give back to the bank.

Players who leave early will pay the bank usually what they owe or if they are cashing out a win, table will owe them end of the night.

I know it sounds crazy but we’ve always been exact at the end of the night. Since the game is $5/$5 the numbers are also pretty straightforward.

 

[exodus]

I have tried so many different types of methods to keep track of buyins and the best way I have found is pen and paper with Poker Tools App. Our group definitely lands in the getting drunk late at night and no one remembers anything. I've already gotten burned by trusting people to send money and not waiting for the transfer to clear, lesson learned.

I always write down the buyin amount and what method of payment. This helps to understand where the money is coming from incase I need to back track the money trail. Cash is easier since it's chips in and chips out, but I still write down the amount noting it's cash.

The Poker Tools App is great since it can calculate if the buyins match the cashout. It also has a history of when people bought in and how much they have cashed out for. I wish all the guys could either bring cash or go fully electronic, but it is what it is. Obviously if I forget to write down a buyin then I’m screwed but fool me once shame on me. Fool me - you can’t get fooled again.

 

[allforcharity]

I like to go by the adage, "if you didn't write it down, it didn't happen". I would use a paper ledger despite how the money is actually exchanged.

 

[TheRealTeddyKGB]

I've still never had 1 issue with cash in 25 years. It's still easily the most streamline way.

 

[toothpic]

We really did try to do the cashless approach for about a year and it's great for everyone but the person who is the bank. I'm primarily the bank and there were nights I was off 1 or 2 buyins. We play poker at the end of the week as a way to relax and just have fun (like previously said, lots of drinking) so I eventually ditched the cashless approach as I didn't want to spend my time tracking buyins and then later figuring out cash outs and who pays who.

Cash is easiest and honestly if you might have a new person come play here and there it's the best method too. I request everyone bring enough for a few buyins unless they arrange with someone else to have enough cash for them. If you burn through your buyins, cash needs to still come on the table for a buyin most of the time by you sending a payment to someone there who can cover the buyin with cash. For everyone that is able to run a game seemlessly without cash, that's awesome and I wish I could too. It just doesn't flow as well for me and my group.

 

[Rieguy]

Live footage of me telling my friends to bring cash instead of using Zelle/Venmo:

So yeah, I begrudgingly keep a ledger. Cash is king optimal and will always be the most reliable since you are physically exchanging currency.

 

[30YEARFIX]

Fool me - you can’t get fooled again.

Haha the bush years.

 

[edwardstarcraft]

I have tried so many different types of methods to keep track of buyins and the best way I have found is pen and paper with Poker Tools App. Our group definitely lands in the getting drunk late at night and no one remembers anything. I've already gotten burned by trusting people to send money and not waiting for the transfer to clear, lesson learned.

I always write down the buyin amount and what method of payment. This helps to understand where the money is coming from incase I need to back track the money trail. Cash is easier since it's chips in and chips out, but I still write down the amount noting it's cash.

The Poker Tools App is great since it can calculate if the buyins match the cashout. It also has a history of when people bought in and how much they have cashed out for. I wish all the guys could either bring cash or go fully electronic, but it is what it is. Obviously if I forget to write down a buyin then I’m screwed but fool me once shame on me. Fool me - you can’t get fooled again.

Thanks for the mention! I’m the guy who built Regroup Poker Tools. Our friends were using it successfully, and others were asking for access so I decided to publish it to the App Store.

Other ways to reduce the errors are to (1) count your bank on a regular basis (as shown in this video), (2) add players via the app so they get notified on each buy-in, or (3) add additional admins that get notified on each buy-in.

The app can track early payments / etc so you can have new players pay the host upfront or before they leave.

It works really well!

 

[Machine]

So it works like this, we all know each other so say you are down $300 and owe that towards you credit. And another player who’s up a lot, you will settle with him to buy the $300 in chips and give it back to the bank. The player that settled with you is collecting his profit. At the end of the game everyone is figuring out who they will settle with. it’s not complicated because everyone knows they need to buy chips from a winner and give back to the bank.

This sounds like a bad idea, are you saying that the guy that lost the 300 pays the winner and the winner takes the chips off the table? aka going south? Maybe its my reading comprehension but this sounds like a shit show..

I mean you no disrespect here, and very grateful you're sharing, also if its working for you great, but I wouldn't do it, and I wouldn't want to be party to it.

I think most of us who disagree want the best for you and hope we highlight the pitfalls so you can steer clear

 

[upNdown]

At the end of the game everyone is figuring out who they will settle with. it’s not complicated because everyone knows they need to buy chips from a winner and give back to the bank.

I couldn't hate that more.
Here's my chips, give me my money. Whether is cash (which it should always be) or electronic, I want it all, right now, in one transaction, without having to do anything else.

 

[detroitdad]

I couldn't hate that more.
Here's my chips, give me my money. Whether is cash (which it should always be) or electronic, I want it all, right now, in one transaction, without having to do anything else.

I couldn't agree more. I must likely wouldn't play in a game that handle payouts like that.

 

[Coyote]

Cash is simplest and optimal, especially for the banker.
It may attract robbers, though, at 1/2 stakes or higher, so just don't play at those stakes at home

Other than that, the host's / banker's job is getting difficult anyway due to the onslaught of cashlessness.
Banks in Greece will probably refuse to give you 100E in 20x5E bills, so I systematically collect 5E bills and 1E coins on every occasion imaginable.
Sometimes I go begging for them to shops around the neighbourhood, armed with 50E or 20E bills, only to be told to f*ck off, if I don't actually buy something, since they are facing exactly the same issue.

Edit: Forgot to mention that all players proudly arrive with just 50E bills in their pockets.

 

[upNdown]

Edit: Forgot to mention that all players proudly arrive with just 50E bills in their pockets.

Poker players in America are superstitious about $50 bills - nobody wants anything to do with them.

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

Cash is simplest and optimal, especially for the banker.
It may attract robbers, though, at 1/2 stakes or higher, so just don't play at those stakes at home

Other than that, the host's / banker's job is getting difficult anyway due to the onslaught of cashlessness.
Banks in Greece will probably refuse to give you 100E in 20x5E bills, so I systematically collect 5E bills and 1E coins on every occasion imaginable.
Sometimes I go begging for them to shops around the neighbourhood, armed with 50E or 20E bills, only to be told to f*ck off, if I don't actually buy something, since they are facing exactly the same issue.

Edit: Forgot to mention that all players proudly arrive with just 50E bills in their pockets.

This right here has got me thoroughly stumped! The bold print above. So if I may ask, exactly what is the purpose of a bank in Greece? Because what you just described is exactly one of the functions of any bank in the US. If someone walked into a bank and asked to have several large bills broken into smaller ones, and the bank refused, I can't even imagine what might happen next. It's unthinkable!

 

[upNdown]

This right here has got me thoroughly stumped! The bold print above. So if I may ask, exactly what is the purpose of a bank in Greece? Because what you just described is exactly one of the functions of any bank in the US. If someone walked into a bank and asked to have several large bills broken into smaller ones, and the bank refused, I can't even imagine what might happen next. It's unthinkable!

 

[30YEARFIX]

This sounds like a bad idea, are you saying that the guy that lost the 300 pays the winner and the winner takes the chips off the table? aka going south? Maybe its my reading comprehension but this sounds like a shit show..

No one going south. Basically when the game ends and it’s time to cash out. Anyone who owns the bank will collect it from one of the winners on the table and settle up with them - collect the chips and give back to the bank to complete their credit.

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

I couldn't hate that more.
Here's my chips, give me my money. Whether is cash (which it should always be) or electronic, I want it all, right now, in one transaction, without having to do anything else.

I couldn't agree more. I must likely wouldn't play in a game that handle payouts like that.

I understand what you guys are saying, and I personally agree that a cash game with actual cash is the preferred way (for me) to host a poker game. But you have to take his posts into the context of this thread, which is specifically discussing how to run a cashless game. It's great to personally want to play cash only, but it makes no sense to come into this thread and disregard the issues that make cashless desirable to those who do play this way.

What you are missing is that once they've made the decision to do cashless, they feel like they need to reduce the total numbers of transactions, and make the ones they do have not look like they are hosting a poker game. If, as you guys would prefer (I assume) all buy-ins and rebuys go to one person (host or predetermined banker) and then later that same person distributes those payments in a relatively similar total, but in different individual amounts, back to the same group of people, it would be pretty easy for anyone on the platform reviewing these transactions to guess the these individuals are gambling. Which is against their policies, I believe. So the purpose of the losers paying the winners after the fact is to make the transactions look like more traditional "friends sending friends money" transactions.

 

[30YEARFIX]

I couldn't hate that more.
Here's my chips, give me my money. Whether is cash (which it should always be) or electronic, I want it all, right now, in one transaction, without having to do anything else.

That would be optimal. What happens in our game is if there is one big winner multiple people who lost would settle up with him.

 

[30YEARFIX]

I understand what you guys are saying, and I personally agree that a cash game with actual cash is the preferred way (for me) to host a poker game. But you have to take his posts into the context of this thread, which is specifically discussing how to run a cashless game. It's great to personally want to play cash only, but it makes no sense to come into this thread and disregard the issues that make cashless desirable to those who do play this way.

What you are missing is that once they've made the decision to do cashless, they feel like they need to reduce the total numbers of transactions, and make the ones they do have not look like they are hosting a poker game. If, as you guys would prefer (I assume) all buy-ins and rebuys go to one person (host or predetermined banker) and then later that same person distributes those payments in a relatively similar total, but in different individual amounts, back to the same group of people, it would be pretty easy for anyone on the platform reviewing these transactions to guess the these individuals are gambling. Which is against their policies, I believe. So the purpose of the losers paying the winners after the fact is to make the transactions look like more traditional "friends sending friends money" transactions.

That and it’s just a bit wild to buy in say $2k and end up winning $200 by end of the night. If we did transaction to transaction lot of money going back and forth.

I am in NY and supposedly it’s legal to play poker at home with no rake, but I can see a Chase or Citibank closing or locking your account with all the nonsense if you know what I mean.