How to raise the stakes? (2 Viewers)

[mummel]

So I've been hosting a $25 buy-in game with 25c/25c blinds. Its been a huge success. However, I've been trying to up the stakes to $50 buy-ins with 25c/50c blinds, but can't find enough takers.

Now I know these guys will do at least 1 rebuy each, some even 2. But for some reason, the perception of a $50 buy-in is that the stakes are too high. Go figure....., because they drop that or more in the $25 game!

So Im not sure if they are pricing in at least one bust out and think $100 is above their limit? Either way, the interest isnt there.

I would really like to play 25c/50c blinds. If I want to keep starting stack sizes identical, any ideas to get more folks interested? I guess I could always use 50BB starting stacks, but I really like being able to play on 100BB the whole night, no matter what the stakes. Ideas?

 

[tigon]

Make it 200bb max at 25/25 and try to introduce a straddle?

 

[ssanel54]

Well, if you are intent on keeping the starting stacks equal, why not try $40 buy ins.

 

[mummel]

Well, if you are intent on keeping the starting stacks equal, why not try $40 buy ins.

What do you think the bare minimum BB level should be to allow for a good evening of poker? I played in a 50BB game this past weekend and it was ok. You just have to play super tight and folding a lot isnt too much fun. But I really like 100BBs and I know 50 BBs work, so there must be some level inbetween.

 

[Rhodeman77]

Make it 200bb max at 25/25 and try to introduce a straddle?

This, the blinds really don't mean much, what is important is how deep the stacks are.

Keep the blinds at .25/.25 but up the max buy-in to $50. Peer pressure of seeing other people starting with $50 should get others to do it too.

The other option is try to recruit new players that play the stakes you want.

 

[mummel]

This, the blinds really don't mean much, what is important is how deep the stacks are.

Keep the blinds at .25/.25 but up the max buy-in to $50. Peer pressure of seeing other people starting with $50 should get others to do it too.

The other option is try to recruit new players that play the stakes you want.

Yeah thats what I want to avoid. I want to keep everyone's stacks the same size so all players start off on an equal playing field and that pressure isnt there. Casual/more friendly game = more fun, I just want to get more cash at work and get my redbirds on the table FFS!!

 

[manamongkids]

This, the blinds really don't mean much, what is important is how deep the stacks are.

Keep the blinds at .25/.25 but up the max buy-in to $50. Peer pressure of seeing other people starting with $50 should get others to do it too.

The other option is try to recruit new players that play the stakes you want.

this approach, put max buyin up to $50 and start creating more action yourself, start straddling every hand, every week

 

[detroitdad]

Yeah thats what I want to avoid. I want to keep everyone's stacks the same size so all players start off on an equal playing field and that pressure isnt there. Casual/more friendly game = more fun, I just want to get more cash at work and get my redbirds on the table FFS!!

Its a cash game though. Players should be able to buy in from x to x imo. I run a .25/.50 cash game. The buy in is 40-100. Rebuys are 50%, sometimes 75% of the deep stack. Most guys buy in for the 100. I do have a couple of players that will buy in at 60-80's. Shouldn't matter imo.

 

[upNdown]

Seems like you've tried to raise the stakes and you got your answer. You're dealing with adults; they know what they're comfortable with - listen to them.
If you want to play higher stakes, find some new higher stakes people.
If you just want to get your $5's on the table, put them on the table. There's no reason why a $25 buy-in can't include a $5 or two.

 

[jbutler]

Yeah thats what I want to avoid. I want to keep everyone's stacks the same size so all players start off on an equal playing field and that pressure isnt there. Casual/more friendly game = more fun, I just want to get more cash at work and get my redbirds on the table FFS!!

You want to move up in stakes. Some (all?) of your players don't. There's no way to get them to move up without applying pressure in some manner.

@tigon and @Rhodeman77 have the best suggestions so far. Permit buy-ins within a certain range and keep the blinds as they are.

If someone complains that someone else is starting with more money, explain that in a lot of games, particularly loose home games, the shorter stack can often have an advantage over the deeper stacks if the shorter player knows what he's doing.

 

[churlbut18]

Like you said, lower stakes and deeper stacks can produce/promote loser games. People won't mind shoving as much if it's only going to cost them $25 vs. $50. If you increase the blinds unwillingly, you may be doing yourself an injustice because your game might tighten up and you'll have less money on the table than you had with your lower stakes... I like what the others have said... loosen up your own play a bit and allow people to buy in for a range...

 

[Rhodeman77]

Yeah thats what I want to avoid. I want to keep everyone's stacks the same size so all players start off on an equal playing field and that pressure isnt there. Casual/more friendly game = more fun, I just want to get more cash at work and get my redbirds on the table FFS!!

It's a cash game though! That is why they offer a range of buy-in amounts. Tournaments require equal starting stacks, not cash games.

Can players chip up or rebuy for less later in the night? Do you require them to go bust before they can rebuy?

 

[mummel]

Seems like you've tried to raise the stakes and you got your answer. You're dealing with adults; they know what they're comfortable with - listen to them.
If you want to play higher stakes, find some new higher stakes people.
If you just want to get your $5's on the table, put them on the table. There's no reason why a $25 buy-in can't include a $5 or two.

I know, but you know, MOAR

 

[ssanel54]

What do you think the bare minimum BB level should be to allow for a good evening of poker? I played in a 50BB game this past weekend and it was ok. You just have to play super tight and folding a lot isnt too much fun. But I really like 100BBs and I know 50 BBs work, so there must be some level inbetween.

Every game will vary, but in your case the number of BB sounds irrelevant, as people seem more fixated on a dollar amount. I suggested $40 because its easy to peel off two twenties, yet psychologically it may be less of a barrier than $50.

If you lower the blinds will do you think it will change the way people play on a $25 buy in?

I would suggest allowing people to buy in at different amounts.

 

[mummel]

It's a cash game though! That is why they offer a range of buy-in amounts. Tournaments require equal starting stacks, not cash games.

Can players chip up or rebuy for less later in the night? Do you require them to go bust before they can rebuy?

They can rebuy as many times as they want at the original buy-in.

 

[justsomedude]

Keep the blinds at .25/.25 but up the max buy-in to $50. Peer pressure of seeing other people starting with $50 should get others to do it too.

^^^ This!

I started my games with a $25 table minimum and 200BB max for our .25/.50 game, but no one ever bought in for more than $50-$60. I kept trying to promote bigger buyins, but no one went along with it.

Finally, I invited a couple of new players who always bought in for the table max of $100. As soon as the other players realized how powerful the larger stacks were, they played along.

Just don't make it too hard of a push, or you'll lose your regulars.

 

[mummel]

Every game will vary, but in your case the number of BB sounds irrelevant, as people seem more fixated on a dollar amount. I suggested $40 because its easy to peel off two twenties, yet psychologically it may be less of a barrier than $50.

If you lower the blinds will do you think it will change the way people play on a $25 buy in?

I would suggest allowing people to buy in at different amounts.

I think a 25c/50c game with a $30 buy-in may be the way to start off, and keep everyone's starting stack the same size. Perhaps I can move it up from there to see how folks enjoy this type of game. Do you think 60 BBs will allow for decent poker?

 

[tigon]

I think a 25c/50c game with a $30 buy-in may be the way to start off, and keep everyone's starting stack the same size. Perhaps I can move it up from there to see how folks enjoy this type of game. Do you think 60 BBs will allow for decent poker?

nope

 

[manamongkids]

my weekly game is a $1/$1 40 min/300 max game. Some people used to buyin for 60-80, but we now have regulars who buyin for 200+. the short stacks get decimated on most nights, they just fold away their blinds until they get down to $20 and double up

 

[mummel]

my weekly game is a $1/$1 40 min/300 max game. Some people used to buyin for 60-80, but we now have regulars who buyin for 200+. the short stacks get decimated on most nights, they just fold away their blinds until they get down to $20 and double up

Yeah I dont want the guys that are capped at lower buy-ins to stop coming because they feel disadvantaged vs guys who have deeper pockets.

 

[DrStrange]

Don't do it. This is an idea your players reject, likely for good reason. It is very rational for weaker players to seek lower stakes and shallow stacks just as the better players are often seeking the opposite

If you want to test the waters, hold a special game on a different night with higher stakes / deeper stacks. You risk breaking your game if you use it as the experiment.

These types of plans so often have an unhappy ending -=- DrStrange

PS By the way, the smaller stacks have the mathematical advantage over bigger stacks in a cash game. I know the common belief is otherwise, but it isn't true. Perhaps what people are really trying to say is the weaker players go broke faster when buying in once for a deeper stack rather than spreading out their money in several buy-ins over the session.

 

[ssanel54]

I think a 25c/50c game with a $30 buy-in may be the way to start off, and keep everyone's starting stack the same size. Perhaps I can move it up from there to see how folks enjoy this type of game. Do you think 60 BBs will allow for decent poker?

$30 is a tough amount unless the bank keeps lots of 10's.

Ill ask you this - If you buy in for 100BB and lose 40% of your stack on the first hand, can you play decent poker for the rest of the night?

 

[Mr. Cheese]

We used to do .10/.20 with a 20 dollar buyin and then eventually we went to .25/.50 with a 40 dollar minimum buyin. With the exception of a couple players a majority of them only bring a single buyin so when they get knocked out in 20 minutes they are done for the evening unless we have a tourney. I always bring at least 2 buyins and the same for a tourney as well.

If you have as much trouble as I do it's not going to be easy to raise the stakes without having people only enough to buy in once.

 

[Rhodeman77]

Yeah I dont want the guys that are capped at lower buy-ins to stop coming because they feel disadvantaged vs guys who have deeper pockets.

You can't please everyone. What is more important to you keeping the regulars happy or playing higher stakes?

I realized years ago that playing higher stakes and more competitive poker was more important than playing poker with my friends. So I adjusted the game and found more like minded people. A few of my old regulars still play but most faded away. I still am friends with them, but we do other things together now.

 

[mummel]

All good points guys . It tried the experimental $50 buy in night but it failed DrStrange, so I hear what you're saying. I think these guys are way less concerned about 50BB starting stacks than a $50 buy-in.

Soooo:

1) $30 buy-ins with 25c/25c blinds and at least I get 1 redbird per stack! Deep stacks and no real rebuys, maybe 1. OR,
2) $30 buy-ins with 25c/50c blinds = bigger pots, 1 redbird / stack on the table at the start, and more bust outs and rebuys with even more redbirds on the table. Negative here is 60BB starting stacks.

Decisions.

 

[inca911]

I'd start with an tweak to the buy in range, making it "up to half the big stack". Change nothing else unless you don't mind losing these players. Once that settles down, the next step would be suggesting an increase to a $30-$40 max. They might be ready for that in the future, but I suspect not. I read this post as you would prefer a bigger game. Not everyone wants that for their poker night out, and hosting two different games with two different groups and stakes is likely the only true solution. Mr Cheese's game that I play in is a perfect match to this situation. 80% are casual players who expect to lose it all. They just want to have fun doing it! We did an affordable deep stack tourney last time, and it was a huge hit for them.

 

[mummel]

80% are casual players who expect to lose it all. They just want to have fun doing it!

Yeah, exactly this. I think these guys expect to lose $50 and want to have fun doing it. If I make the buy-in $50, they probably expect to lose that or maybe another re-buy so $100, and that's too much.

I think I'm going with #1. I cant get my higher stakes overnight, but at least I will see a few redbirds . TY guys.

 

[Mr. Cheese]

I'd start with an tweak to the buy in range, making it "up to half the big stack". Change nothing else unless you don't mind losing these players. Once that settles down, the next step would be suggesting an increase to a $30-$40 max. They might be ready for that in the future, but I suspect not. I read this post as you would prefer a bigger game. Not everyone wants that for their poker night out, and hosting two different games with two different groups and stakes is likely the only true solution. Mr Cheese's game that I play in is a perfect match to this situation. 80% are casual players who expect to lose it all. They just want to have fun doing it! We did an affordable deep stack tourney last time, and it was a huge hit for them.

Yeah they all loved the 50 dollar tourney because it was a 300BB deepstack with a slow progression. Instead of blowing their 40 dollar buyin in 30 minutes of a cash game they all played for several hours at a minimum with the tourney.

 

[72o]

Solution is simple:

Keep stakes as is. Spend saved money on moar/better chips.

 

[dew4au]

I agree with @DrStrange, don't push it too far and risk breaking your game. If they don't want it, they don't want it.