Hustler Casino Live (6 Viewers)

[RainmanTrail]

For those that are convinced she cheated, have you studied all the other hands she played that night? Surely, there's evidence of other hands that are offside.

With all of your billions of hands of experience, which lead you to conclude she is cheating; you have more than one hand of evidence right?

I'm not convinced that she has some sort of device on her, though it's certainly plausible. I think collusion with cowboy hat sugar daddy or her getting a peek at his hole cards on the pitch are probably more likely.

I'm also considering changing my opinion though based on my experiences having dealt numerous women's only tournaments in the past. I don't think I gave enough weight to her stereotype until someone started firing out accusations of "mysogyny". Recalling some of the hands I saw in those tournaments have me leaving more toward the "all bets are off" viewpoint.

 

[RainmanTrail]

With all of your billions of hands of experience, which lead you to conclude she is cheating; you have more than one hand of evidence right?

This is not necessary. The one hand is sufficient. You shouldn't need billions of hands of experience to see that.

 

[HaRDHouSeiNC]

If you think her call here was the worst play ever you need to go back and see the Ollie 100k punt that lasted about 6 minutes
Calling with trips on the board and no pair
Folded a winning hand

But he lost so no one cared

 

[umbkcshah]

Thing I would never do under pressure: Give away $100,000+ that I earned fair and square.

Oh and as for “pressure”: She was having a discussion with the producer present, in a public space, where there are tons of security guards and cameras on the off chance anything goes south. Plus her hothead male partner/defender just steps away. The idea that she felt threatened seems manufactured.

I don't see how she wouldn't feel threatened or pressure. That doesn't necessarily mean an old school Vegas beatdown. She understood that she's not anything compared to Garrett for the stream's success. So having a producer there while a key player accuses you of cheating.... Ryan, I don't think, has told his version of the story other than co-signing that Garrett first brought up the idea of being given money back.

 

[RainmanTrail]

Thing I would never do under pressure: Give away $100,000+ that I earned fair and square.

Oh and as for “pressure”: She was having a discussion with the producer present, in a public space, where there are tons of security guards and cameras on the off chance anything goes south. Plus her hothead male partner/defender just steps away. The idea that she felt threatened seems manufactured.

I disagree. I definitely believe her when she says she felt threatened. She didn't mean that she felt like her life was at stake or that she was in danger of violence. She just felt intimidated. Just put yourself in her shoes. She's on a live stream poker show that is watched by millions of people, and she just pissed off the star of the show so badly that he is quitting the game and accuser her of cheating. She now finds herself in an uncomfortable at best conversation in a hallway with people she doesn't know very well and is being told that the entire poker world is going to plaster her face next to Mike Postle. Fairly or unfairly, she definitely wants this problem to go away. This is also partly why I don't necessarily see her returning the money as an admission of guilt.

 

[JScott]

I disagree. I definitely believe her when she says she felt threatened. She didn't mean that she felt like her life was at stake or that she was in danger of violence. She just felt intimidated. Just put yourself in her shoes. She's on a live stream poker show that is watched by millions of people, and she just pissed off the star of the show so badly that he is quitting the game and accuser her of cheating. She now finds herself in an uncomfortable at best conversation in a hallway with people she doesn't know very well and is being told that the entire poker world is going to plaster her face next to Mike Postle. Fairly or unfairly, she definitely wants this problem to go away. This is also partly why I don't necessarily see her returning the money as an admission of guilt.

If there's one thing that we can all agree on.. it's that Gman destroyed his reputation over $130K.

Unless it is somehow proven that she cheated, which is unlikely... he's pretty much done imo.

 

[bergs]

Not necessarily. She wants to project that image, but admitted on Joey Ingrams channel that Rip had 50% of her action and "other backers" had the remaining 50%

Then what the fuck does she care about making a horrible play with J4? Worst case she loses and makes a splash, best case she wins and either way she’ll get all the action she can handle.

Unless she gets accused of cheating and gets flustered and gives the money back and causing a huge controversy.

It was obvious Rip backed her tho. He exploded in the room after she gave Garrett the money back.

 

[RainmanTrail]

If there's one thing that we can all agree on.. it's that Gman destroyed his reputation over $130K.

Unless it is somehow proven that she cheated, which is unlikely... he's pretty much done imo.

I guess we can agree to disagree then on what we all agree on

 

[RainmanTrail]

Maybe I missed it (this topic is spread over 4-5 threads now), but I don't think any of the people in the "probably not cheating" camp have said this.

It's been expressly stated here multiple times. I'm also playing in a tourney right now and the table has been talking about it for hours. Some of the players at my table think they've seen "far worse calls" "countless times" as well. The most vocal of which further claims that Garrett's shove there with 8c7c was "much worse than her call". A few hands later, this genius called with a Qh in the door in Razz against an Ace raiser from early position and 3 wheel cards left to act behind him. After he lost the hand to a made 65 low on 5th street (while drawing to an 8 himself), I consoled him with, "oof, ya tough beat. Nothing you can really do there. You're just running bad. It'll turn around."

 

[nitzilla]

Watching Bart’s analysis now.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

It's been expressly stated here multiple times. I'm also playing in a tourney right now and the table has been talking about it for hours. Some of the players at my table think they've seen "far worse calls" "countless times" as well. The most vocal of which further claims that Garrett's shove there with 8c7c was "much worse than her call". A few hands later, this genius called with a Qh in the door in Razz against an Ace raiser from early position and 3 wheel cards left to act behind him. After he lost the hand to a made 65 low on 5th street (while drawing to an 8 himself), I consoled him with, "oof, ya tough beat. Nothing you can really do there. You're just running bad. It'll turn around."

I think that Razz anecdote supports the "far worse calls countless times" argument, actually.

 

[Anthony Martino]

What's surprising to me is in the PLO streets at least the vast majority of people I've spoken to seem to believe she cheated, it's been a hotly discussed topic this past weekend for multiple days (dealers and players chiming in)

However the internet seems to lean much more heavily towards believing she's either a complete idiot or she misread her hand, somewhere in the neighborhood of 60-70% seem to think she did NOT cheat across multiple sites I've seen (here, Reddit, 2+2, etc) with the rest either thinking she did cheat or they're unsure.

I imagine if they find nothing AND can convince Garret that there was no foul play involved he'll return the money and issue a mea culpa. I still believe there was some sort of cheating involved, but I have my doubts they'll be able to prove it (or would want to prove it since they're continuing to run streamed games and then months down the road they openly admit they found how the game was cheated and now EVERYONE who lost on stream comes out of the woodwork with lawsuits)

It's in their best interest not to discover cheating, as that would be more damaging than losing their golden boy Garret who's already been trashed by the majority of people online.

 

[Anthony Martino]

Watching Bart’s analysis now.
View attachment 998806

 

[RainmanTrail]

I think that Razz anecdote supports the "far worse calls countless times" argument, actually.

Did I mention he's currently the chip leader?

 

[upNdown]

Garret who's already been trashed by the majority of people online.

I think thats what's surprised me the most. I've been surprised by how many people have been so quick to throw garrett out with the bathwater. I've watched garrett for years. If he's completely wrong here, in my opinion he's still not a bad guy. He'd be a guy who screwed up in an isolated incident, and even if you can't trust his judgement, you can still mostly trust him.

 

[Anthony Martino]

I think thats what's surprised me the most. I've been surprised by how many people have been so quick to throw garrett out with the bathwater. I've watched garrett for years. If he's completely wrong here, in my opinion he's still not a bad guy. He'd be a guy who screwed up in an isolated incident, and even if you can't trust his judgement, you can still mostly trust him.

The pitchforks came out quick and I was surprised too as all I ever heard before this was praise for him

 

[bergs]

I liked the guy too but accusing someone of cheating is a bell you can’t unring. You’re either right or you’re not worth trusting or playing with any longer. It’s the most serious accusation you can make within poker, if you think about it. It’s the reason why a lot of people have been reluctant at first to out people playing online with multi-accounts and the like.

 

[upNdown]

I liked the guy too but accusing someone of cheating is a bell you can’t unring. You’re either right or you’re not worth trusting or playing with any longer. It’s the most serious accusation you can make within poker, if you think about it. It’s the reason why a lot of people have been reluctant at first to out people playing online with multi-accounts and the like.

Well I don’t want people falsely accusing people of cheating.
But cheating does happen. And I’d hate to tell people that if you’re certain you’ve been cheated and you speak up and you’re wrong, then your decades of good behavior disappear and you’re shit. Because then you’d be discouraging people from calling out cheaters.

 

[JScott]

The pitchforks came out quick and I was surprised too as all I ever heard before this was praise for him

Hence why I think he ruined his reputation. I still like him, and even if she didn’t cheat, the way Robbie is handling this on Twitter makes her look like an unhinged maniac to me. But most people are still siding with her.

But yet… if you don’t, you’re a misogynist.

 

[RainmanTrail]

If you were to ask me to guess, with no prior knowledge of this hand, what the person who made the worst call in poker history might look like, and how they might respond to the controversy though?... I'd be batting a thousand.

 

[RainmanTrail]

How many of you have been following the chess cheating scandal from last week with Magnus Carlsen doing effectively the exact same thing as GMan? If you don't know about it yet, you should definitely look it up. Cliff Notes are that Magnus Carlsen (the best chess player in the world and the highest-rated player of all time) just withdrew from a chess tournament about a week ago after losing to another grandmaster named Hans Niemann. The chess world completely erupted trying to figure out what the hell happened, and afterward Magnus took to Twitter to accuse him of cheating and says he will not play with Niemann again. The evidence? Nothing, nada, zilch. No proof. He just said he knows it because it's not possible for Niemann to have played that well without cheating. Other grandmasters have chimed in as well, many of them saying they were also suspicious of his play.

I'm curious about your thoughts on Magnus calling him out here, particularly for those of you who think GMan is way out of line for accusing Robbi of cheating in a very similar manner.

 

[ekricket]

I'm curious about your thoughts on Magnus calling him out here, particularly for those of you who think GMan is way out of line for accusing Robbi of cheating in a very similar manner.

Here’s mine, I only have one

Whiny bitches

Both of them are saying that if you don’t “play as expected” then you must be cheating. And that’s their whole argument.

I’d also add that their trustworthiness is also suspect from this point on

 

[Marius L]

8

How many of you have been following the chess cheating scandal from last week with Magnus Carlsen doing effectively the exact same thing as GMan? If you don't know about it yet, you should definitely look it up. Cliff Notes are that Magnus Carlsen (the best chess player in the world and the highest-rated player of all time) just withdrew from a chess tournament about a week ago after losing to another grandmaster named Hans Niemann. The chess world completely erupted trying to figure out what the hell happened, and afterward Magnus took to Twitter to accuse him of cheating and says he will not play with Niemann again. The evidence? Nothing, nada, zilch. No proof. He just said he knows it because it's not possible for Niemann to have played that well without cheating. Other grandmasters have chimed in as well, many of them saying they were also suspicious of his play.

I'm curious about your thoughts on Magnus calling him out here, particularly for those of you who think GMan is way out of line for accusing Robbi of cheating in a very similar manner.

IMO not all that similar because:

1) Hans Niemann had a known history of previously cheating when playing on chess.com.

2) poker is a game that amateurs and professionals can play together and the amateurs can win with some luck. That is pretty much never the case in chess.

3) having the percentage of computer moves in a row that Niemann had in some of the games that has been analysed is insane. He's either the best in the world or a cheater. I'm sure Magnus had knowledge of this before doing what he did, and that it was not done based on one single lost game. Comparably Gman is basing the cheating accusations on one hand, while the rest of Robbis play on stream do not suggest she's cheating.

 

[LeLe]

How many of you have been following the chess cheating scandal from last week with Magnus Carlsen doing effectively the exact same thing as GMan? If you don't know about it yet, you should definitely look it up. Cliff Notes are that Magnus Carlsen (the best chess player in the world and the highest-rated player of all time) just withdrew from a chess tournament about a week ago after losing to another grandmaster named Hans Niemann. The chess world completely erupted trying to figure out what the hell happened, and afterward Magnus took to Twitter to accuse him of cheating and says he will not play with Niemann again. The evidence? Nothing, nada, zilch. No proof. He just said he knows it because it's not possible for Niemann to have played that well without cheating. Other grandmasters have chimed in as well, many of them saying they were also suspicious of his play.

I'm curious about your thoughts on Magnus calling him out here, particularly for those of you who think GMan is way out of line for accusing Robbi of cheating in a very similar manner.

Your example is not comparing apple to apple.

It Will make sense if it Gman vs another known pro like Andy or Ivey instead

 

[CrazyEddie]

I'm curious about your thoughts on Magnus calling him out here, particularly for those of you who think GMan is way out of line for accusing Robbi of cheating in a very similar manner.

The evidence that Niemann is cheating can be evaluated by examining dozens of moves per game across thousands of games; the degree to which his moves are improbably good can be compared to players of similar skill and playstyle across hundreds of players making dozens of moves across thousands of games. The analysis is tricky (and I've seen some naive attempts which, while well intentioned, are still invalid) but it nevertheless can be done.

The evidence that Robbi is cheating is that Garrett thinks (and you and Anthony think) this one call is something that literally no one would ever make unless they knew what Garrett's hand was.

The two situations are not the same.

 

[Taghkanic]

For those that are convinced she cheated, have you studied all the other hands she played that night? Surely, there's evidence of other hands that are offside.

A few podcasters have pointed out that Robbi and Rip very blatantly slowplayed each other in an earlier hand.

Both had AQ, and both flopped trip aces. Yet they put basically put little or no more money in.

That is possibly the clearest evidence so far of them colluding, and furthers suspicions of what else they may have been up to. Combined with them not disclosing their backing arrangements, it at minimum suggests they are unethical players.

If two people came separately to your home game, and you found out they were partners afterward, and could recall even one hand where they clearly colluded, would you invite them back?

 

[krafticus]

A few podcasters have pointed out that Robbi and Rip very blatantly slowplayed each other in an earlier hand.

Both had AQ, and both flopped trip aces. Yet they put basically put little or no more money in.

That is possibly the clearest evidence so far of them colluding, and furthers suspicions of what else they may have been up to. Combined with them not disclosing their backing arrangements, it at minimum suggests they are unethical players.

If two people came separately to your home game, and you found out they were partners afterward, and could recall even one hand where they clearly colluded, would you invite them back?

Unethical does not equal cheat though.

 

[Anthony Martino]

Unethical does not equal cheat though.

But it certainly increases the liklihood that they'd be the types of players who had no qualms about cheating, it's very relevant

 

[bergs]

Well I don’t want people falsely accusing people of cheating.
But cheating does happen. And I’d hate to tell people that if you’re certain you’ve been cheated and you speak up and you’re wrong, then your decades of good behavior disappear and you’re shit. Because then you’d be discouraging people from calling out cheaters.

Agreed.

How is Garrett certain? Where is his irrefutable proof? He handled this really badly start to finish.

 

[umbkcshah]

If two people came separately to your home game, and you found out they were partners afterward, and could recall even one hand where they clearly colluded, would you invite them back?

Based on that hand, no. I would just suspect they are soft playing each other. Now if there's regular bet and raising with multiple players involved in the hand... Different story.

I look at it similar to friends playing at the same table. Some soft play, others go for blood