Is it normal for Kem Cards to cup like this? (13 Viewers)

[RagahRagah]

Umm yeah, that means they aren’t perfect forever. You really should work on your reading comprehension or even get your attendant to explain it to you.

Wow, I can't even. I normally don't engage in the (IMO) juvenile use of reaction emojis but for this one I had to make an exception.

So you're saying people expecting cards to not arrive bowed or not to bow after one use are expecting their cards to be perfect forever.

So, to be clear, by your words:

Short time = forever.

You criticizing my reading comprehension is literally the biggest case of projection I have ever seen. Absolutely staggering. LOL.

 

[ekricket]

I'll repeat it one more time and after that I won't bother because if you don't acknowledge it I'll just assume you are ignoring it purposely.

You admitted there is an issue. Yet you characterized people's argument as people being upset that the cards "aren't perfect forever." This is a strawman; the issue is that the cards tend to have the issue after a very short amount of time or even WHEN THEY ARRIVE. Your assertion was obviously 100% false.

I'm not sure why you keep deflecting this, and what's weirder is your defense is a deflection that actually contradicts the mischaracterization you made.

Bizarre.

Omg sorry I’m slow in the uptake here.

YOU bought some of these cards without checking out the reviews and info didn’t you!! And you got burned by the known cupping issue!!!!!

Really it’s ok, nobody’s judging you.

Ok, well I am judging you but that’s ok.

 

[RagahRagah]

Omg sorry I’m slow in the uptake here.

YOU bought some of these cards without checking out the reviews and info didn’t you!! And you got burned by the known cupping issue!!!!!

Really it’s ok, nobody’s judging you.

Ok, well I am judging you but that’s ok.

You keep deflecting. Over and over again. You are literally telling people who have their cards ARRIVE WARPED that you can't expect cards to be "perfect forever." This is just obtuse and I can't find a nicer way to put it.

Forever = A few games, a few orbits or sometimes before you even open them. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

I didn't buy any Kems recently. I bought a setup years ago after hearing how good they were. And let's be honest, for every person complaining they bow there is someone who swears by them, so your argument doesn't entirely hold up anyway. I think plenty of people could easily buy them without knowing of this issue.

Me? I've known this for quite a while. But I like how you keep mischaracterizing arguments, then deflecting, then making assumptions, all while lecturing someone else about "reading comprehension." The cognitive dissonance and lack of self-awareness is truly astounding here.

Outside of the politics section, this is literally the stupidest chain of responses I have ever seen on this forum. I'm done responding at this point.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Alright this isnt fun anymore, I got tagged in OP because my dislike of these is pretty clear but you guys are sailing past eachother.

 

[ekricket]

You keep deflecting. Over and over again. You are literally telling people who have their cards ARRIVE WARPED that you can't expect cards to be "perfect forever." This is just obtuse and I can't find a nicer way to put it.

I didn't buy any Kems recently. I bought a setup years ago after hearing how good they were. And let's be honest, for every person complaining they bow there is someone who swears by them, so your argument doesn't entirely hold up anyway. I think plenty of people could easily buy them without knowing of this issue.

Me? I've known this for quite a while. But I like how you keep mischaracterizing arguments, then deflecting, then making assumptions, all while lecturing someone else about "reading comprehension."

Outside of the politics section, this is literally the stupidest chain of responses I have ever seen on this forum.

I reject your pathetic strawman argument. You seem inordinately fixated on the semantics of a couple of words. I bet you are a hoot in the politics section. “Depends on the definition of “is””.

You are continuing to mischaracterize my posts by hiding behind semantics. If that’s all you have to defend this then I guess your misdirection will have to do.

But anybody who buys these without doing research on them deserves what they get -whether it is from the moment they are packed for shipment until the theoretical end of time - by not taking precautions.

 

[Bacon Dad]

Alright this isnt fun anymore, I got tagged in OP because my dislike of these is pretty clear but you guys are sailing past eachother.

Actually, I tagged @NotRealNameNoSir because noticed in the classifieds that you really seem to like and buy card setups. I didn’t tag anyone specifically that either likes or dislikes Kem to make any kind of point. The people I tagged come across to me as people that buy and sell cards a lot more than I have.

Oddly, the second and more concerning part of my post was largely missed. I was concerned that my shuffling is what was causing the cards to bow. I wondered if I should expect to see that bowing on my Fourniers, Copags, or my cheapo-ThePokerStore poker cards (which I love dearly-check them out guys) or is it just a Kem thing.

According to some members who will remain nameless (COUGHekricketCOUGH), I was supposed to do an exhaustive search to find out if shuffling was also a problem on all my other card setups before posting my question. @ekricket thanks for the pearls of wisdom. But serious. All I can say is -NO SHIT DAD!

Otherwise, I really appreciated everyone’s contribution here and taking time to provide answers and opinions on such a controversial topic. I think this forum is great for allowing members to express their thoughts, within reason. So is there a way to kill this fucking thread now?

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Actually, I tagged @NotRealNameNoSir because noticed in the classifieds that you really seem to like and buy card setups. I didn’t tag anyone specifically that either likes or dislikes Kem to make any kind of point. The people I tagged come across to me as people that buy and sell cards a lot more than I have.

Ah! My fault, thought you were winding me up lol. I don't like them, I've purchased used and new and don't. Just got some from @Pippa (in fantastic condition) and I'm debating whether or not to keep them cause its too risky. I play with apes, we can't be trusted to keep nice things. I don't believe its your shuffling, though I guess without a video we can't prove that.

 

[RagahRagah]

Actually, I tagged @NotRealNameNoSir because noticed in the classifieds that you really seem to like and buy card setups. I didn’t tag anyone specifically that either likes or dislikes Kem to make any kind of point. The people I tagged come across to me as people that buy and sell cards a lot more than I have.

Oddly, the second and more concerning part of my post was largely missed. I was concerned that my shuffling is what was causing the cards to bow. I wondered if I should expect to see that bowing on my Fourniers, Copags, or my cheapo-ThePokerStore poker cards (which I love dearly-check them out guys) or is it just a Kem thing.

According to some members who will remain nameless (COUGHekricketCOUGH), I was supposed to do an exhaustive search to find out if shuffling was also a problem on all my other card setups before posting my question. @ekricket thanks for the pearls of wisdom. But serious. All I can say is -NO SHIT DAD!

Otherwise, I really appreciated everyone’s contribution here and taking time to provide answers and opinions on such a controversial topic. I think this forum is great for allowing members to express their thoughts, within reason. So is there a way to kill this fucking thread now?

Yeah, like I said... it's easy to still end up with these as people are very divided and plenty of people do love them.

I've used Copag more than anything and in my personal experience they don't have those bowing issues, at least not after several sessions I have used them. I'm sure more members have much more time logged than I do but that is my personal experience.

However, they do have long term issues with ink fading so be aware of that. But I shouldn't have had to tell you that, you shoulda researched it first, right?

Fourniers are probably the best quality of the ones you mentioned overall but they are much thicker so not what you want if you really want a smooth shuffle.

 

[Bacon Dad]

And before any wiseass tells me to use the SEARCH menu and look it up, IT WAS A RHETORICAL QUESTION!

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

I've got a meeeaann mailday to document when I get back home, it will be a reckoning of card decks.

 

[Bacon Dad]

Fourniers are probably the best quality of the ones you mentioned overall but they are much thicker so not what you want if you really want a smooth shuffle.

I opened a box of Fournier WPT cards yesterday and there was a slight bow right out of the cellophane. That one has me perplexed, but I bought the deck from someone in Florida, supposedly brand new. eBay. Oh well. I'll still play with them and my Kems.

EDIT/ADD
I'm trying the voodoo methods recommended for the Kems. Hope it works. Love the Fourniers.

 

[Mongoose]

You forgot the a.
But yes, KEMs are pissa. Wicked pissa!

Haha. Yeah, Boston thru and thru

 

[upNdown]

I've used Copag more than anything and in my personal experience they don't have those bowing issues, at least not after several sessions I have used them. I'm sure more members have much more time logged than I do but that is my personal experience.

It's funny because here on PCF, Copags do seem have a reputation for NOT bowing. But they absolutely do. I had a deck of Copags that were bowed - I got them used from another member and they came to me that way, so I don't know what led up to it. But I will tell you with 100% certainty that my old favorite poker room - Hampton Falls in NH (which was bought out and closed shortly before the covid) used only copags and they were often very noticeably bowed. I assume they just used the eff out of these setups and should have replaced them sooner. But their copags were often bowed.

TL; dr - Copags do bow

 

[Bacon Dad]

Ah! My fault, thought you were winding me up lol. I don't like them, I've purchased used and new and don't. Just got some from @Pippa (in fantastic condition) and I'm debating whether or not to keep them cause its too risky. I play with apes, we can't be trusted to keep nice things. I don't believe its your shuffling, though I guess without a video we can't prove that.

I an looking into buying a small airtight acrylic case to store my Kems in with a desiccant bag. I store the deck in a clear, plastic card case with a dealer button inside the case on top. I need a small weight to add to the top of the case to apply pressure downward. -voodoo

 

[Colquhoun]

TL; dr - Copags do bow

Agreed. My first setup of Copags back in 2005-2006 arrived with one deck having a very noticeable bow. I contacted Copag USA and they sent me a new setup via DHL from Brazil.

The second setup I bought was about a year ago…not bowed, but a burned plastic smell that persists today.

 

[Bacon Dad]

That smell does not seem like it will disappear either. I keep a Copag deck out of the box on my desk and deal myself a couple of 6-handed games to myself about every night. I'm hoping the smell dissipates the more I use them. It's an experiment.

 

[JMC9389]

Actually, I tagged @NotRealNameNoSir because noticed in the classifieds that you really seem to like and buy card setups. I didn’t tag anyone specifically that either likes or dislikes Kem to make any kind of point. The people I tagged come across to me as people that buy and sell cards a lot more than I have.

Oddly, the second and more concerning part of my post was largely missed. I was concerned that my shuffling is what was causing the cards to bow. I wondered if I should expect to see that bowing on my Fourniers, Copags, or my cheapo-ThePokerStore poker cards (which I love dearly-check them out guys) or is it just a Kem thing.

According to some members who will remain nameless (COUGHekricketCOUGH), I was supposed to do an exhaustive search to find out if shuffling was also a problem on all my other card setups before posting my question. @ekricket thanks for the pearls of wisdom. But serious. All I can say is -NO SHIT DAD!

Otherwise, I really appreciated everyone’s contribution here and taking time to provide answers and opinions on such a controversial topic. I think this forum is great for allowing members to express their thoughts, within reason. So is there a way to kill this fucking thread now?

The bolded is something everyone should take from this thread.

Underrated cards, IMO, but the cream colored box on the ace and no other cards is just so god damn tilting for me to use them regularly.

 

[JMC9389]

I opened a box of Fournier WPT cards yesterday and there was a slight bow right out of the cellophane. That one has me perplexed, but I bought the deck from someone in Florida, supposedly brand new. eBay. Oh well. I'll still play with them and my Kems.

EDIT/ADD
I'm trying the voodoo methods recommended for the Kems. Hope it works. Love the Fourniers.

Humidity can made any kind of plastic cards bow, not just Kems.

Bought some old school Modiano Elements from a nice guy here a couple years back. Insta sold them because they were bowed, brand new in the cellophane. I brought this up, and the guy said the cards were stored in the main level of his home, and that the humidity likely made the cards bow.

Since then, I've stopped storing my cards in the basement where humidity levels can vary, even though I have a dehumidifier running down there around the clock anytime the temperature is over 70 degrees. I store my cards in the climate controlled main level of my home and have had no issues with cards bowing or warping, unopened or opened.

 

[Bacon Dad]

Underrated cards, IMO, but the cream colored box on the ace and no other cards is just so god damn tilting for me to use them regularly.

These ARE underrated. But the cream colored box is on more than just the ace. It is on all cards except the face cards. When I get home I can post a couple of pics if you like.

I think I bought the package with bulk rate - 10 decks (5 different colors x 2) for $40 plus shipping. They are a little heavier than Copags and have a little texture to them, but not as stiff and textured as Desjgn.

 

[JMC9389]

These ARE underrated. But the cream colored box is on more than just the ace. It is on all cards except the face cards. When I get home I can post a couple of pics if you like.

I think I bought the package with bulk rate - 10 decks (5 different colors x 2) for $40 plus shipping. They are a little heavier than Copags and have a little texture to them, but not as stiff and textured as Desjgn.

These right?

Tilting as hell.

 

[Zmasterben]

TL; dr - Copags do bow

I have 8 decks of Copag 1546s in 8 different colors. All are 5-10 years old. All have minimal use as I don't host often (a few times a year). All stored in the same conditions.

Six of my decks are perfect and two are bowed to shit.

My shtick when I host is I pick one person and ask them to pick one of the four light colored decks and one of the four dark colored decks and those are the two we use for our games so they all have pretty similar usage.

 

[RagahRagah]

It's funny because here on PCF, Copags do seem have a reputation for NOT bowing. But they absolutely do. I had a deck of Copags that were bowed - I got them used from another member and they came to me that way, so I don't know what led up to it. But I will tell you with 100% certainty that my old favorite poker room - Hampton Falls in NH (which was bought out and closed shortly before the covid) used only copags and they were often very noticeably bowed. I assume they just used the eff out of these setups and should have replaced them sooner. But their copags were often bowed.

TL; dr - Copags do bow

But at the rate that Kems do? I can't imagine. Definitely never saw that consensus said so.

 

[surfik]

https://playingcarddecks.com/products/crystal-card-press

 

[upNdown]

But at the rate that Kems do? I can't imagine. Definitely never saw that consensus said so.

I don’t have enough personal experience with copags to answer that. But I can say that Copags feature non-pixilated jokers! Because that seems to be important to people.

 

[Bacon Dad]

These right?

View attachment 1153561View attachment 1153562
Tilting as hell.

@JMC9389
Here’s the cards I’m talking about. They are poker size with jumbo index. Not sure what they offer in bridge size. The colors are blue, green, red, orange, and brown. The design on the back are all the same - full bleed in a diamond pattern. I got the 10-pack because I wanted two of each color. Read the descriptions carefully to ensure you are getting the colors you want. Individually, the decks are $9 I believe. In a 10-pack, they are $4 each.

I believe the ones you posted were called their Classics. I know the owner is really responsive when you send an email with questions.

I received a free deck of the Classics, and they had the stores logo on the back. Not sure if that’s on all of there Classics.

 

[Bacon Dad]

I don’t have enough personal experience with copags to answer that. But I can say that Copags feature non-pixilated jokers! Because that seems to be important to people.

100%!!! The Kem jokers are the worst! Magicians reviewing Kem cards on YouTube always mention the jokers.

 

[upNdown]

100%!!! The Kem jokers are the worst! Magicians reviewing Kem cards on YouTube always mention the jokers.

See we need a sarcasm font, because in my head those words were dripping with contempt. As far as I’m concerned, there are 52 cards in a deck. Anything else in that box is trash.

 

[Bacon Dad]

See we need a sarcasm font, because in my head those words were dripping with contempt.

I was wondering if that was laced with sahcasm.
But with your sunny disposition that normally shines through on these threads, I thought HECK NO!
This ain’t some angry Bill Buckner fan!! This guy’s a doer and makes the play.

And it’s a swing and a miss….


Maybe italics could work for sarcasm.

As far as I’m concerned, there are 52 cards in a deck. Anything else in that box is trash.

I cannot recall any game where I actually used the jokers out of a deck of cards. But if you are going to include them in a deck of cards, the least they could do is make them look like they weren't printed in 1980. Dot matrix printers had their place in history, 40+ years ago.

 

[Castle00]

KEMs have always been hit or miss for me. The 40+ year old ones don't warp at all, while the 2008 WSOP ones I once had definitely warped.

 

[lolfdgb]

Out of all the different kinds of cards I play with, Kem Cards are the only brand of cards I see with this cupping. These decks are only a month old. Is this normal for Kem or am I shuffling to hard?

I normally do three riffles, box, one final riffle, and then a cut. I always thought that was a normal shuffle. I read a study by UNLV that said a rule-of-thumb is that it takes seven riffles to get a 52-card deck random. What do you guys do?

View attachment 1151713

@VMR911 @surfik @Pippa @NotRealNameNoSir @KHarp1

Late, but my KEMs bow like this as well– even after storing a set between two heavy books when not in use! It's a shame because they're otherwise great to play with. Glad I'm not the only one getting frusturated.