Is it normal for Kem Cards to cup like this? (6 Viewers)

[davefr]

100%!!! The Kem jokers are the worst! Magicians reviewing Kem cards on YouTube always mention the jokers.

I found a 1979 deck of KEMs at a garage sale yesterday for $1. Guess which Joker is from this 1979 deck and which one is from a new 2022 deck? Not that a joker is all that important, but this is an embarrassment for the "premium" plastic playing card company. The joker should showcase it's attention to detail and artwork. I guess he's really pointing to his open eye vs picking his nose.

 

[blueshells50]

KEM cards suffer from warping issues, more so than any other cards. Pre-USPC, post-USPC, casino-supplied or consumer cards, sealed in original packaging or used -- they all warp.

Proponents will tell you this rarely happens, and can be prevented by very specific storage conditions, and that they are the greatest cards on earth.

Others will tell you that the cards play great until they warp, at which point they suck and are overpriced.

Acetate plastic warps...modianos do the same thing

 

[RagahRagah]

Acetate plastic warps...modianos do the same thing

At the same rate? Highly doubtful.

 

[blueshells50]

Ordered bridge size modiano acetates and had to return them 3 times for coming in warped on the long axis

 

[JMC9389]

Ordered bridge size modiano acetates and had to return them 3 times for coming in warped on the long axis

No such animal unless I missed something. The only Modiano acetate cards I know of are poker size.

I've gotten warped DaVinci bridge jumbo set ups that I couldn't fix, did you mean those?

 

[blueshells50]

No such animal unless I missed something. The only Modiano acetate cards I know of are poker size.

I've gotten warped DaVinci bridge jumbo set ups that I couldn't fix, did you mean those?

Yes. Davinci are a modiano brand, sorry I should have been more specific. The jokers are the modiano jokers and I believe it's confirmed they are made by modiano.

 

[davefr]

No such animal unless I missed something. The only Modiano acetate cards I know of are poker size.

I've gotten warped DaVinci bridge jumbo set ups that I couldn't fix, did you mean those?

I thought all DaVincis were PVC vs Cellulose Acetate.

I think the only remaining Cellulose Acetate cards still in production are Kem and Angel. Guild claims they're Acetate but not Cellulose Acetate and reviews suggest they perform more like PVC.

 

[blueshells50]

I thought all DaVincis were PVC vs Cellulose Acetate.

I think the only remaining Cellulose Acetate cards still in production are Kem and Angel. Guild claims they're Acetate but not Cellulose Acetate and reviews suggest they perform more like PVC.

I have a poker sized set of davinci they used to advertise as acetate not anymore so they might be PVC now...but the set I have which is close to a decade old has never had a PVC smell and feels very different from all other PVC I have used

 

[TheRealTeddyKGB]

So in an attempt to diversify my card setups one of my latest purchases has been a set of KEM. I opened them when I got them last week to take the jokers out & everything seemed fine. Today I opened them to see if the colors would work well with the chips I planned on using tomorrow night only to find this:

Never shuffled or played with & still in sequence. Room never got over 70°

#*@% me gently with a chainsaw...are you #*@%ing serious?!?

 

[RagahRagah]

So in an attempt to diversify my card setups one of my latest purchases has been a set of KEM. I opened them when I got them last week to take the jokers out & everything seemed fine. Today I opened them to see if the colors would work well with the chips I planned on using tomorrow night only to find this:
View attachment 1188439
Never shuffled or played with & still in sequence. Room never got over 70°

#*@% me gently with a chainsaw...are you #*@%ing serious?!?

Serious as a heart attack. Kems are just a waste of money.

 

[TheRealTeddyKGB]

Serious as a heart attack. Kems are just a waste of money.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

View attachment 1188445

I'm selling a setup of those as part of an auction; thats the one setup that hasnt bowed on me. Blue/red arrow standard/poker size.

Sorry dude! Common

 

[Grimalkin]

COPAG cards also warp like this. I switched to bicycle prestige and will see how they do over time.

 

[RagahRagah]

COPAG cards also warp like this. I switched to bicycle prestige and will see how they do over time.

I think that's a new one for me. I can't recall a single time anyone ever complained that Copags warped, let alone quickly.

 

[upNdown]

I think that's a new one for me. I can't recall a single time anyone ever complained that Copags warped, let alone quickly.

I had a deck of copags that I got used from somebody here that were very warped. Since I got them used, I can’t add much more useful.
But I can say that I used to play at a cardroom in NH that used copags and they were often/always warped/bowed. They likely got a lot more use than a home setup, so again, results may vary. But I’ll say with certainty that yes, copags bow. And I don’t know why we never hear about it.

 

[Colquhoun]

My first setup of Copags (mid 2000s) was warped right out of the package. Their customer service made it right, however.

 

[allforcharity]

My 6 setups of Copags have not warped in the 11 years I've owned them.

 

[drdr]

So in an attempt to diversify my card setups one of my latest purchases has been a set of KEM. I opened them when I got them last week to take the jokers out & everything seemed fine. Today I opened them to see if the colors would work well with the chips I planned on using tomorrow night only to find this:
View attachment 1188439
Never shuffled or played with & still in sequence. Room never got over 70°

#*@% me gently with a chainsaw...are you #*@%ing serious?!?

Yup.
I've since followed all the voodoo instructions to keep them flat...
They still bowed.
If they didn't bow I'd happily pay double the price.

 

[Grimalkin]

I should clarify a bit, It took over 5 years for my copags to warp, but in the end they did warp.

 

[drdr]

I'm selling a setup of those as part of an auction; thats the one setup that hasnt bowed on me. Blue/red arrow standard/poker size.

Sorry dude! Common

Three setups of red/blue (poker jumbo) and all bowed on me. Wouldn't think the size or index would make much different. Seems logical it is the material.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Three setups of red/blue (poker jumbo) and all bowed on me. Wouldn't think the size or index would make much different. Seems logical it is the material.

Yup, didnt mean it as a mandate. Im one of these cards biggest detractors.

 

[Bacon Dad]

I wonder if these “Kems” bow too?
They’re washable!!!

 

[maxim_666666]

https://playingcarddecks.com/products/crystal-card-press

This nonsense doesn't work.

 

[surfik]

This nonsense doesn't work.

you tried?

 

[drdr]

you tried?

Am curious. I've tried incredibly heavy stack of books... no change.

 

[surfik]

Am curious. I've tried incredibly heavy stack of books... no change.

I tried the same....same results

 

[maxim_666666]

you tried?

Yes, I tried that thing...
And it didn't have any effect at all. The thing is, the screws were stronger than the glass, and they bent it quite significantly in the opposite direction. That is, they pressed on the edges, creating a dome in the center of the plate. I bought several metal plates for reinforcement, and everything became level. But it didn’t show any effect on the paper cards, even after a month!
With plastic, it didn’t even make sense to try.
In fact, I know for sure that humidity greatly affects the bending of cards, and I will demonstrate this experimentally in the evening. It’s useless to fight it and impossible to fix. And to be honest, it doesn’t bother me at all. Acetate cards are simply better and resemble paper ones. All my friends whom I asked to compare two decks of cards – acetate and polyvinyl chloride – all confidently pointed to the acetate ones. They couldn’t even explain why; they were just better and more pleasant.

By the way, the Polish company Trefl makes amazingly high-quality cards.

 

[davefr]

I tried the same....same results

I've flattened warped KEMs but after a couple weeks they just returned back to their previous warped state. Once warped, always warped. I guess you could keep them in that card flattener jig, use them and put them right back in until the next game.

 

[Sammer]

Sold KEMS for years and indeed very common for them to warp. Much more than other brands like Copag or Modiano in my experience.

At the price versus these other brands, KEM's were not really worth the price.

 

[maxim_666666]

I have experimented with acetate and PVC cards, and I have come to the conclusion that they are manufactured this way at the factory. My guess is that there are only three possible reasons why this happens:
1) the paint on the card back or
2) the fast-drying method used for the paint somehow affects the acetate cards and causes them to bend. However, the thickness of the paint is too minimal to have such an effect, and this is unlikely since the bending would occur lengthwise, not crosswise.
3) This leaves the most obvious third option: sheets of cellulose acetate arrive at the factory in this state. The material is rolled into huge rolls, which affects the final cards. I just spoke with my wife’s sister, who works at the Polish Trefl factory, which produces high-quality cards and games. She mentioned that the material for paper cards often comes in rolls (this is cheaper, and not all suppliers can cut it into sheets), and cards made from such rolls often turn out to be slightly curved along the long side due to the layout of the print on the sheet. Cellulose acetate is produced in the same factories as regular paper, unlike PVC.