It was ludicrous pineapple not PLO (2 Viewers)

[DrStrange]

I am fixing a huge goof in my last thread. We are playing Ludicrous Pineapple (start with four cards, pitch on after the flop and a second after the turn playing only two cards on the river)

We are playing the first night of the Rumble in the Rockies meat-up. This is a dealer's choice game, $0.25/$0.50 blinds with an $80 max buy-in. We don't know much about each other yet.

This is villain on villain action. I am safely sitting on the side munching on a slab of pizza. If one of you sees yourself and thinks I got some of the details wrong, speak up about it.

The table is eight handed

Cast of characters:

Hero is UTG playing $50. My table read on Hero is he plays a lot more hold'em than other games and sometimes applies hold'em hand values to other hands.

There are two Villains, CO and BB, who will play a big role in this hand

CO is playing $100. My first impression - semi loose, limited aggression which means business, tends to play ABC.

BB is playing $75. My first impression - loose-aggressive wide ranging. Too early to know if he is skilled or not, but this villain can put you to the test at any point in the hand.

The hand:

Hero is first to act holding Fold, limp or raise? If raising, how much? (And lets say I have no good reason why I know the is part of hero's hand. My scrawling notes kind of look like 9s but there is no way Hero tabled that card.)

Sorry for the confusion, but thanks to Hero for remembering better than my notes.

DrStrange

PS and no, there was no Colorado "tobacco" involved.

 

[trever]

PLO, pineapple, whatever. As long as this isn't a Hi-Lo game, pot it.

 

[atomiktoaster]

Definitely pot it. I still don't know anything about playing with more than two cards, but my assumption is that drawing to the nuts is a little less likely here vs. PLO, so the hand seems a little stronger, relatively.

Sidenote: Do you take your notes at the table? I always sort of assumed you had some kind of poker photographic memory...

 

[abby99]

LOL!

The number one rule in poker, as in life, is to know what game you're playing.

 

[jbutler]

LOL!

The number one rule in poker, as in life, is to know what game you're playing.

I was trying to explain to a guy that one of the benefits of playing both badacey and badeucey is that the less aware players will sometimes screw up and believe they're playing a different game. He thought it was impossible that this could possibly occur other than in the case of a drunk.

I promised him that even the best of us have played at least one or two streets believing we were playing a different game from the rest of the table.

 

[DrStrange]

I have no need for notes in my regular games.

At a meat-up, I need notes. Roughly twenty villains to learn and match to their forum name and real name. Thirty+ hours of poker where we play a wide variety of games not all of which are no limit. And as we see, even with notes I don't get it right.

 

[joker80]

In this game, are you required to use your last two cards, like in Omaha, or does the best 5 card hand win, like in NLHE?

 

[DrStrange]

It plays like hold'em, use all, some or none of your hole cards.

 

[Adam Crowley]

It plays like hold'em, use all, some or none of your hole cards.

But you pitch two cards by showdown, so you only have two left?

My first instinct is this hand is a lot stronger than in PLO would pot.

 

[Chicken Rob]

Do not fold.

First to act in micro-stakes? Pot.

 

[DrStrange]

you will have two cards in your hands at showdown.

 

[12thMan]

I was trying to explain to a guy that one of the benefits of playing both badacey and badeucey is that the less aware players will sometimes screw up and believe they're playing a different game. He thought it was impossible that this could possibly occur other than in the case of a drunk.

I promised him that even the best of us have played at least one or two streets believing we were playing a different game from the rest of the table.

When I play 8 game on line it's almost guaranteed that once a session I miss when razz turns into stud and I'm always confused for a few seconds with the bets or the chips going the opposite direction I thought they would be going. I need the screen to flash at me when that change happens like the KO graphics do. "Haha, this guy is betting open kings in razz, loooolz, he must not know how to play. Raise!" *snap call* *bye bye chips* "waitwhatthefuckjusthapp---- ohhhhhh...... "

 

[DrStrange]

So we know Hero bets $2 and both villains call. $6.25 in the pot.

Flop is:

BB checks. Action on Hero, bet or check? If betting how much?

Hero holds Which card to pitch?

 

[12thMan]

From the mind of a donkey that has never played this game: pitch the 9 and pot it, or at the very least make it $5?

 

[atomiktoaster]

Yeah 9s and pot.

 

[Adam Crowley]

Pitch the 9. I like $5 here. Our hand is pretty strong and I am assuming a repot if someone flopped the joint or has some sort of 789T combo.

I would call and see turn if it was reported. Our hand here is probably the best hand. Our range is somewhere concealed where as our opponents range is fairly easy to assume. Which makes turn play pretty easy.

I have also never played this game. I am assuming it's fairly new to all players involved in the pot as well.

 

[Chicken Rob]

Pot and toss 9s. I agree with consensus here.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Agree with ditching the 9. Disagree about potting, all we have is an overpair and a non-nut backdoor flush draw. Check here.

 

[Chicken Rob]

Agree with ditching the 9. Disagree about potting, all we have is an overpair and a non-nut backdoor flush draw. Check here.

I'm not sure I can check here in a meetup game. What is the plan for the turn? Check fold any non-K or non-Ac? I think a pot sized bet is cheap here, and failing to c-bet is practically giving up the hand. If we get re-potted here we can maybe fold depending on which villain pops it.

I think maintaining our role of aggressor is warranted, especially since we're seeing no signs of strength elsewhere.

 

[DrStrange]

*** now what? ***

Hero bets $6. CO villain raises to $12 <min raise>. BB folds.

Action on Hero. Call $6, fold or raise? If raising, how much? Hero started with $50, now he has $42 left facing a $6 bet.

Hero pitches the .

 

[trever]

Betting out was fine, but you can fold now.

 

[12thMan]

I think I want to see the turn for 4:1. I fully admit it's very easy to be beat bad here and drawing very thin but if we are at a small stakes home game or a meatemup I'm calling all day here, maybe reraising if I want to see what kind of player I'm playing against. You're description of the villain, as limited as it is due to lack of information, makes it even more likely we are crushed. Like I say, calling $6 to hit a card on the turn and still have decisions isn't optimal and folding might be, but I'm in there all day for one more, maybe with a reraise.

 

[Adam Crowley]

Yeah really need more information on villain. Some people min raise nuts here. Some people min raise like A6, some people min raise TT.

It's really hard not to make a mistake in this spot. The information I would use in making this decision, we have seen CO raise before to mean business. What was that raise size and what hand did he show down.

From the out side looking in, I would read this as some sort of weak hand like TTA6 or something.

Calling 6 makes the pot perfect for a turn shove. The thing is 66 and 34 would probably raise more as there is still a bigger stack in the pot at the time of the raise that villain should take into consideration when choosing his raise size.

If there is any indication that villain overplays overpairs or top pair top kicker 3b shove. Otherwise I would call the $6 and see what the turn brings.

I hate putting in $6 and folding to most turn cards as well, this is why you really need to look into how and what he played aggressively in the past. If you can't peice together any parts of the puzzle your better off folding now. You probably look uncomfortable calling the $6, villain detects weakness, realises he can shove pot on turn and just makes you fold with his bare 78.

Sorry for the long post, I find this spot particularly difficult.

 

[DrStrange]

We don't have much villain data yet, something less than 30 hands in the meat-up.

And yes, this spot is hard for Hero. Villain has him in a RIO bind.

 

[Adam Crowley]

We don't have much villain data yet

And yes, this spot is hard for Hero. Villain has him in a RIO bind.

At the start of the thread there was an indication of "when he raises, he means business" can anyone recall the details of this hand/s

What is RIO?

 

[DrStrange]

RIO = Reverse Implied Odds. In longer words, it means Hero will tend to play bigger pots when he loses and smaller pots when he wins because the min-raising villain knows if he has a good hand or not but Hero only finds out when he gets called by a good hand and folds out the bad hands.

My assessment of CO was based on a tiny sample and just his general manner. No doubt he bluffs and bets thin sometimes.

 

[Adam Crowley]

Ahh yes thanks for that. Am aware of RIO just never seen the abbreviation before.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

*** now what? ***

Hero bets $6. CO villain raises to $12 <min raise>. BB folds.

Action on Hero. Call $6, fold or raise? If raising, how much? Hero started with $50, now he has $42 left facing a $6 bet.

Hero pitches the .

Fold, you have a 1 pair hand. You are behind often here, with little hope of improving. The times you are ahead, you are probably only slightly ahead of a draw.

 

[DrStrange]

*** the turn ***

Hero calls. $30.25 in the pot and it is heads up. Effective stacks are $36. Hero holds but he will pitch one card after the turn.

Turn is: < >

Action on Hero, bet or check? If betting how much?

Which card should Hero pitch? The rules on when Hero has to pitch are not clear, aside from he has to be down to two card before the river is dealt. It appears that Hero can wait till betting is closed before pitching. Can Hero make that decision now or must he wait to see what the villain does?

 

[atomiktoaster]

*** the turn ***

Hero calls. $30.25 in the pot and it is heads up. Effective stacks are $36. Hero holds but he will pitch one card after the turn.

Turn is: < >

Action on Hero, bet or check? If betting how much?

Which card should Hero pitch? The rules on when Hero has to pitch are not clear, aside from he has to be down to two card before the river is dealt. It appears that Hero can wait till betting is closed before pitching. Can Hero make that decision now or must he wait to see what the villain does?

Man, tough spot here. I think hero's only chance at showdown in the flush, but even that isn't 100% given the paired board. Check-fold to anything over $5, I think, and keep the clubs.