It was ludicrous pineapple not PLO (1 Viewer)

[DrStrange]

What are Villain's range that makes the club draw attractive? Made straight seems plausible but trips would be a stretch I think.

 

[Ben]

This game is not so different from PLO - especially preflop and on the flop. Even so, the difference is enough that I think we should lean to playing this type of hand more aggressively than we might in PLO.

-raise preflop
-bet flop
-fold to minraise on flop
-as played, check-fold turn. If villain checks behind, keep KK and check-call most rivers.

I give villain a flop-minraise range of straight, sets, 2 pair, and some wraps - possibly some overpairs lower than KK if he is approaching this more like holdem. The deuce pairing on the turn made his top 2 and wraps appear much less attractive, and I expect him to check those behind. So, if he comes out betting, I expect to be beat 100% of the time (sometimes by the straight, more often by a boat.) I'm certainly not calling a bet in the hopes that he has specifically the straight AND I can hit my flush draw OOP with no implied odds. Some villains might check behind the made straight here, but that's a small enough portion of his range that it doesn't warrant pitching our made hand for a flush draw - the straight is the only villain holding that the flush would actually help us against. I'd much rather always keep KK to make sure I'm beating 65 and whatever random pairs he might have or hit on the river.

 

[trever]

I agree with Ben's analysis, but you do have an opportunity to take an aggressive approach instead, and bet. Bet 2/3 of the pot and villain will have a really hard time calling with anything that isn't a boat.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

I agree with Ben's analysis, but you do have an opportunity to take an aggressive approach instead, and bet. Bet 2/3 of the pot and villain will have a really hard time calling with anything that isn't a boat.

I disagree, hero raised pre-flop, so how is he supposed to rep a boat? His hand screams AA or KK, not 66, 55, 22, 62, or 52. I mean maybe a lagtard raises pre with those hands, but not a perceived nit. If I'm the villain, and Dr Strange leads out here, I'm potpotpotpotpotting, even if I only have 65, because I know he can't continue.

 

[DrStrange]

Hero could have started with a hand like QQ66 or AA55 or even a hand like 7s76s6. Double paired hands have a lot of potential. I wouldn't limit my preflop raising range to just AAxx, KKxx and QQxx.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Ok, but even if you do have AA55 or 7766 are you bet calling the flop?

 

[DrStrange]

That flop looks safe for top set or middle set. I might take a trapping line and check call with a set. A three bet could polarize Hero's hand depending on his table image.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Call me a skeptic, but if I'm the villain I'm never putting you on a boat based on how you played this hand.

 

[DrStrange]

That would be the point of taking the bet/call line. They might never see it coming.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

That would be the point of taking the bet/call line. They might never see it coming.

Yeah but if I have 65 I have blockers to both your possible sets, I'm supposed to believe you magically raised with 66 or 55 in your hand and the flop came out that way? Unlikely. I pot, and if you have it nh gg. The vast majority of the time you're folding the better hand.

 

[Ben]

If I'm the villain, and Dr Strange leads out here, I'm potpotpotpotpotting, even if I only have 65, because I know he can't continue.

If we're $400 deep then sure, but bluff-repotting is going to be pretty tough to accomplish when we have a $30 pot and only $36 behind.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

If we're $400 deep then sure, but bluff-repotting is going to be pretty tough to accomplish when we have a $30 pot and only $36 behind.

True, didn't realize villain was so short. That means its even worse for hero to lead out here, villain is never ever folding the straight this short.

 

[Adam Crowley]

And more to the point even if AA55 and KK66 type hands are "in" your range, there as much less combos which makes weighting them heavy a mistake. After the stupid min raise line I fully expect villain to shutdown here with his made hands like 90% of the time. The only hands that would logically bet here are boats and straights.

I have to think about villains competency here. Is he aware of pot sizes and stack sizes. Did he stop and think about his raise size on the flop.

1) If we think he is unaware of stack sizes and pot sizes and he bet fast on the flop. I think he is heavily weighted to over pairs and is just lacking experience playing poker.

2) If we feel our opponent is really aware of stack sizes, pot sizes, player image etc. He can never have anything but a made hand relative to the strength of the board. He would probably still value bet his straight and defiantly value bet boats bust I'm guessing he puts in a $12 bet here to make river odds ohh so good.

Option 1) Pitch the Qc check/call. If if villain checks lead river for 1/2 pot unless it's a 2 and then tank for about 10 secs and shove all in and make it seem as though you figured out he can't call.

Option 2) Pitch Qc check/fold.

 

[DrStrange]

I think villain is a competent player but has no experience playing ludicrous pineapple.

 

[Adam Crowley]

I think villain is a competent player but has no experience playing ludicrous pineapple.

I have no experience either. I am just basing my judgement on PLO/HE experience. I also try (though I sometimes do) to say that a player is terrible based on certain plays or not. Skill is relative in the same way that hand strength is.

The above is how I would think through the hand, and the information I would use to make my decision.

I should one day put my signature as a disclaimer that I don't consider myself a good player at any variant of poker . I just like discussing the strategic side of hands.

 

[DrStrange]

*** Results ***

Hero jams all in and is snap called by Villain who is over full, fives full of twos.

Hero needs to catch a two outer king to take the pot. Alas, catching the river king was not to be this night and Hero needs to rebuy.

DrStrange

PS Hero doesn't know that villain's full house renders the flush draw worthless. The decision to keep the kings and pitch the queen looks to be the best option. There aren't many hands in villain's range where Hero is better off drawing to the flush vs praying for a two outer.