KEM significant price increase coming July (1 Viewer)

Thomacetti said:
Angel also has an acetate version....
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Are the Angel club poker the acetate version? I’ve never handled those.
I’ll agree that in terms of flexibility the Angel aristo clubs are similar to Kem. But the different finishes on the face and back of the aristos make them feel and handle differently from KEMs.
 
upNdown said:
Are the Angel club poker the acetate version? I’ve never handled those.
I’ll agree that in terms of flexibility the Angel aristo clubs are similar to Kem. But the different finishes on the face and back of the aristos make them feel and handle differently from KEMs.
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I have no idea. I have three decks of Angel's and they feel, smell and look like acetate but Angel doesn't specify what they're made of.

Another great card that I'm pretty sure were acetate are Fournier "Made For Congress". They are the thinnest deck of cards I own and are buttery smooth and soft. (even more so than KEM)
 
davefr said:
I have no idea. I have three decks of Angel's and they feel, smell and look like acetate but Angel doesn't specify what they're made of.

Another great card that I'm pretty sure were acetate are Fournier "Made For Congress". They are the thinnest deck of cards I own and are buttery smooth and soft. (even more so than KEM)
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I’m not sure which is which (as Angel doesn’t do a great job of marking them). But I do know they offer acetate and PVC products.
 
churlbut18 said:
Yah these are the only ones I was aware of and too your point, not even sure they’re produced anymore. And I think they make PVC versions so you’d have to find the ones that actually say acetate.

Modiano Platinum Acetate
Dal Negro Acetate
Cartamundi Acetate
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As far as I recall.. these other " acetate" brands are Not Cellulose acetate, but PVC acetate or other acetate....
 
Copag = 700+ sold $14,000
Kem = 100+ sold $5,200
Polish_20240412_011315377.jpg
 
MeridianFC said:
It's a shame there are no other producers of quality plastic playing cards.

Wait, what's that?
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Well I’ll tell you one thing. With Copag and Kem, you always knew exactly what you were getting from them. Because all their decks are made with the same stock, same finish. (Well until Copag had to ruin it and come out with Copag elite, but I’m not even sure if that’s a different stock and I don’t think I’ve ever seen it discussed)
Most other manufacturers have different stocks with different finishes throughout their lines. So it cracks me up when somebody names a brand as their favorite. Like, desjgns is very much loved around here. I’ve always loved them. But they’ve used at least 3 different manufacturers and maybe 5 or more different stocks. My favorite non-Kem cards are the catamundi neders. Are they the same stock as the Belgium cartamundis? I don’t think so. Are they botth different from other cartamundi stocks? Most likely.

I could go on with this rant, but long story short, you know exactly what you’re getting with Copag and Kem and that’s worth something to me.
 
churlbut18 said:
Yah these are the only ones I was aware of and too your point, not even sure they’re produced anymore. And I think they make PVC versions so you’d have to find the ones that actually say acetate.

Modiano Platinum Acetate
Dal Negro Acetate
Cartamundi Acetate
Click to expand...
Guild makes a cellulose acetate card that is pretty good as well.
 
upNdown said:
Are the Angel club poker the acetate version? I’ve never handled those.
I’ll agree that in terms of flexibility the Angel aristo clubs are similar to Kem. But the different finishes on the face and back of the aristos make them feel and handle differently from KEMs.
Click to expand...
The Angel club poker bridge JI set up I have is pvc and feels somewhat similar (although a little nicer imo) to the Angel cards available on Amazon.jp. The bridge set ups I have that are marketed as "Angel Poker" are narrow index and clearly cellulose acetate. They also feel the closest to Kems. If only they were JI or even a blackjack index, they'd be perfect imo.
 
davefr said:
I wonder how many of those 700 are replacements because they fade so bad. The answer to Kem and Copag is "none of the above". They are the two most problematic cards and there are plenty of better options.
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what are you better options ?just wondering ?
 
BigSlick4523 said:
what are you better options ?just wondering ?
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Fournier (or Bicycle Prestige), Desjgn, Broken Arrow, Angel, Marion Pro and one of my new favorites is Lot Fancy. Lot Fancy handles closer to Kem than most PVC cards and is a mere $10/setup. I haven't seen any Kem like warping from any of these nor have I seen rapid fading like Copig.

I wonder if eBay still has the surplus 2012/2011 WSOP setups. They were really good value for a Fournier/KEM combo and those KEMs didn't seem to warp.
 
upNdown said:
Well I’ll tell you one thing. With Copag and Kem, you always knew exactly what you were getting from them. Because all their decks are made with the same stock, same finish. (Well until Copag had to ruin it and come out with Copag elite, but I’m not even sure if that’s a different stock and I don’t think I’ve ever seen it discussed)
Most other manufacturers have different stocks with different finishes throughout their lines. So it cracks me up when somebody names a brand as their favorite. Like, desjgns is very much loved around here. I’ve always loved them. But they’ve used at least 3 different manufacturers and maybe 5 or more different stocks. My favorite non-Kem cards are the catamundi neders. Are they the same stock as the Belgium cartamundis? I don’t think so. Are they botth different from other cartamundi stocks? Most likely.

I could go on with this rant, but long story short, you know exactly what you’re getting with Copag and Kem and that’s worth something to me.
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Baaaa, some KEMs are perfect for decades while others are tacos before you even open them, get outta here with consistancy.
 
surfik said:
They lost their minds....
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I am officialy hipocrite....

Initially outraged now i am thinking how to secure few sets of Arrows,, just to be able to recreate my favourite scenes from Rounders....
They propobly will be stuck in my drawer for a next ten years...
 
Azanulbizar said:
Guild makes a cellulose acetate card that is pretty good as well.
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I recently got a couple of setups, because I was interested. Seems they might be made by Modiano? I can’t compare, because it’s been many years since I had a Modiano acetate setup.
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As you can see, they came in a Modiano plastic box. The last two images are from a Modiano Alpha setup. As you can see, the logos are very similar.
 
pokerplayingpisces said:
I recently got a couple of setups, because I was interested. Seems they might be made by Modiano? I can’t compare, because it’s been many years since I had a Modiano acetate setup.
View attachment 1311056View attachment 1311057View attachment 1311058View attachment 1311059View attachment 1311060View attachment 1311061View attachment 1311062View attachment 1311063
As you can see, they came in a Modiano plastic box. The last two images are from a Modiano Alpha setup. As you can see, the logos are very similar.
Click to expand...
JMC9389 said:
They're made by Liberty Card Playing Co. in Texas in the USA. Incidentally, they're the same company that made Dennis' Key West Playing Cards. The major difference between Dennis' and these Guild cards, however, is that the Guilds are apparently made from cellulose acetate. When I felt and shuffled them, it could have fooled me though! They're probably actually my favorite cellulose acetate decks that I own because they don't flex as much as other cellulose acetate cards, like Kem's do, for example.

@Dix
Modiano branded plastic box. Same box you get your Modiano Platinum set in.... Check.
Italian "Fat Spade".... Check
Cellulose Acetate.... Check
Same Numbering/Lettering Font... Check
Same Face Card Artwork.... Check

Also the finish is very, very, Modiano-ish.

Put a numbered black card face up in front of you, and you literally can't tell the difference, save for one minor detail that you'd have to be looking for to notice. (I'll get to that in a minute)

So yea, I can see where one would think they are actually made by Modiano. Sure as h*ll looks like it on the surface. That's a lot of incriminating evidence. And, it's entirely possible they may still be at least partly guilty of the creation of this deck. However, here's the differences....

Most obvious is the red ink. Modiano (and the old Modiano-stock Desjgn) uses the dark "security red", these don't. This is also apparent in the black suited face cards. The face card design is identical, but the red in the images is lighter & brighter.

Ok, so they used regular red, they were still made by Modiano, right?

Maybe.... couple more niggles....

If they were, it's the heaviest, thickest, & stiffest card stock I've ever seen in a Modiano deck.

Da Vinci are 2.56gr, .0125", & rate a 16 on our flex scale. These are 2.64gr, .0130", & a mere 14 for flex. I resorted to actually sniffing 'em to make sure they weren't PVC & the packaging wasn't lying. In fact, that now makes 'em the stiffest Acetate cards on the list.

And finally, no way these were cut by Modiano, even if they did print 'em. These have the sharpest corner radius of any deck I believe I've ever seen in a "premium" plastic card. Even the lowly Marion Pro has a slightly larger corner radius.

So, at minimum the boxes came from Modiano. At most, they were printed in Italy, cut & packaged in Texas. I'm leaning toward the latter.

Pending further evidence coming to light, that's my story & I'm stickin' to it.
 
surfik said:
I am officialy hipocrite....

Initially outraged now i am thinking how to secure few sets of Arrows,, just to be able to recreate my favourite scenes from Rounders....
They propobly will be stuck in my drawer for a next ten years...
Click to expand...
Based on the wording, the arrows aren't going away forever. Only the arrow narrow/jumbo will be.
 
pokerplayingpisces said:
I recently got a couple of setups, because I was interested. Seems they might be made by Modiano? I can’t compare, because it’s been many years since I had a Modiano acetate setup.
View attachment 1311056View attachment 1311057View attachment 1311058View attachment 1311059View attachment 1311060View attachment 1311061View attachment 1311062View attachment 1311063
As you can see, they came in a Modiano plastic box. The last two images are from a Modiano Alpha setup. As you can see, the logos are very similar.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I have the same set up. I guess the Liberty Co. may have sourced this particular plastic stock from Modiano(as well as used storage boxes from them), but as pointed out, they are a bit different. In any case, I wanted to mention them because they are not as flimsy as Kem's for those who might prefer that. I also believe they are the only other cellulose acetate option for fans of bridge size with a larger index.
 
Azanulbizar said:
Yeah, I have the same set up. I guess the Liberty Co. may have sourced this particular plastic stock from Modiano(as well as used storage boxes from them), but as pointed out, they are a bit different. In any case, I wanted to mention them because they are not as flimsy as Kem's for those who might prefer that. I also believe they are the only other cellulose acetate option for fans of bridge size with a larger index.
Click to expand...
Acetate can be made with different materials. They may be cellulose acetate, but they do not specify that they use CA.
 
I will buy a setup before they run out. You know the quality will go down just like everything else now adays.
 
surfik said:
Initially outraged now i am thinking how to secure few sets of Arrows,, just to be able to recreate my favourite scenes from Rounders....
Click to expand...
If you just want to recreate movie scenes, have Tina make you some cheap Kem clone look-alike cards for under $5 per set-up.

Unless you want the authentic Kem warping feature, gotta pay extra for that.
 

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