Ordering Links (17 Viewers)

[TeamNapoli]

so the poker size cards are currently out of stock, correct? Can we put a reserve on a set?

 

[ReallyGoodUsername]

I hope someone with some actual experience with 'em in a Shuffletech will chime in. I'm thinking about getting one, so I'd love to hear it.

If you're only getting one jam in about 8 hrs, I'd call that pretty d*mn decent. I've seen the hi-dollar Shuffle Master Deckmates have about the same in casino sessions.

All that being said, I can give you a description of what I feel are the major differences & you can try to make a judgement call on what you may think will work best if no one else chimes in... if that'll help any.

(Note - weights listed below are for poker size cards)

Copag are what I consider "better than typical" for a PVC card. Probably the most flexible of the PVC lot. But, still have that smooth-ish almost semi-gloss PVC finish that I don't generally care for. WEIGHT: 2.50 gr. / THICK: .0115"

When it comes to Desjgn.... umm.... well, we now (unfortunately IMO) have 2 versions. The reason is well documented here: Bridge/Jumbo Index Issue

The "older" version (printed on Modiano stock) are one of my two favorite decks of all time. If I had the cash, I'd buy-up whatever remaining stock of jumbo index poker size is out there for the taking. Yes,... seriously. They hand shuffle like warm butter, & dealing is a no-brainer process. I can count the number of times I've accidentally dealt 2 cards on a single pitch on the fingers of one hand. & I may not even need all 5 fingers to do it either. (& in case you didn't notice my post above, that goes all the way back to 2006)

Compared to Copags, they're cellulose acetate, not PVC. Which means they're lighter & more flexible even while being ever-so-slightly thicker. They also have a gorgeous matte linen finish putting the feel & looks right up there with Kem (which are my other favorite - I just wish they'd get their Joker to stop picking his nose). WEIGHT: 2.43 gr / THICK: .0120"

The "new" Desjgn (& I hope Jason doesn't hate me for this) have slid back to be the bronze medal spot on my podium. In all fairness, it's not Jason's fault. Modiano couldn't put on their big-boy pants long enough to own up to the fact that they screwed the QC pooch. This sent Jason to that other Italian mob Dal Negro for replacements. Being that I'm in the USofA, I've never actually had any prior experience with DN's acetate stock cards. If you've ever tried to find a deck of 'em in these parts you'd know why. Assuming that the new Desjgns are on that card stock, & if I'm being honest, I don't get the hype.

As stated, they are cellulose acetate, but compared to Copag, they are thicker & slightly stiffer. Also, the finish is much more "textured" than the Modiano stock. I've only dealt one final table with 'em, but I did have to catch myself a couple times before I accidentally pitched two cards, something that I rarely do with Kems or the older Modiano stock decks. So, while the older decks were slightly thicker, yet lighter & more flexible, the new Dal Negro stock is thicker, heavier, and somewhat stiffer than Copag. And, while neither are as smooth finished as Copag's PVC, the new stock is "rougher" or "more textured" than the linen finish of old. WEIGHT: 2.66 gr / THICK: .0130"

If you think you may want to try both old & new, Jason still has (I believe the count is now 28 not 29 - I bought a set) some of the old Classic Victorian (poker size - jumbo index) old stock left in the Wyvern/Phoenix (brown/orange) color combo.

Having said all that, let me add this.... if customer service means anything, nobody on the planet beats Jason. As anyone that ended up with a pooched deck of the last Modiano run will attest to.

@sheikh617

 

[Dix]

so the poker size cards are currently out of stock, correct? Can we put a reserve on a set?

Not out of stock as far as I know, I just ordered 3 sets a couple weeks ago.

Just go to page one of this topic & use the links.

Classic Flourish (poker size, regular index)
Classic Victorian (poker size, jumbo index)

 

[sheikh617]

I hope someone with some actual experience with 'em in a Shuffletech will chime in. I'm thinking about getting one, so I'd love to hear it.

If you're only getting one jam in about 8 hrs, I'd call that pretty d*mn decent. I've seen the hi-dollar Shuffle Master Deckmates have about the same in casino sessions.

All that being said, I can give you a description of what I feel are the major differences & you can try to make a judgement call on what you may think will work best if no one else chimes in... if that'll help any.

(Note - weights listed below are for poker size cards)

Copag are what I consider "better than typical" for a PVC card. Probably the most flexible of the PVC lot. But, still have that smooth-ish almost semi-gloss PVC finish that I don't generally care for. WEIGHT: 2.50 gr. / THICK: .0115"

When it comes to Desjgn.... umm.... well, we now (unfortunately IMO) have 2 versions. The reason is well documented here: Bridge/Jumbo Index Issue

The "older" version (printed on Modiano stock) are one of my two favorite decks of all time. If I had the cash, I'd buy-up whatever remaining stock of jumbo index poker size is out there for the taking. Yes,... seriously. They hand shuffle like warm butter, & dealing is a no-brainer process. I can count the number of times I've accidentally dealt 2 cards on a single pitch on the fingers of one hand. & I may not even need all 5 fingers to do it either. (& in case you didn't notice my post above, that goes all the way back to 2006)

Compared to Copags, they're cellulose acetate, not PVC. Which means they're lighter & more flexible even while being ever-so-slightly thicker. They also have a gorgeous matte linen finish putting the feel & looks right up there with Kem (which are my other favorite - I just wish they'd get their Joker to stop picking his nose). WEIGHT: 2.43 gr / THICK: .0120"

The "new" Desjgn (& I hope Jason doesn't hate me for this) have slid back to be the bronze medal spot on my podium. In all fairness, it's not Jason's fault. Modiano couldn't put on their big-boy pants long enough to own up to the fact that they screwed the QC pooch. This sent Jason to that other Italian mob Dal Negro for replacements. Being that I'm in the USofA, I've never actually had any prior experience with DN's acetate stock cards. If you've ever tried to find a deck of 'em in these parts you'd know why. Assuming that the new Desjgns are on that card stock, & if I'm being honest, I don't get the hype.

As stated, they are cellulose acetate, but compared to Copag, they are thicker & slightly stiffer. Also, the finish is much more "textured" than the Modiano stock. I've only dealt one final table with 'em, but I did have to catch myself a couple times before I accidentally pitched two cards, something that I rarely do with Kems or the older Modiano stock decks. So, while the older decks were slightly thicker, yet lighter & more flexible, the new Dal Negro stock is thicker, heavier, and somewhat stiffer than Copag. And, while neither are as smooth finished as Copag's PVC, the new stock is "rougher" or "more textured" than the linen finish of old. WEIGHT: 2.66 gr / THICK: .0130"

If you think you may want to try both old & new, Jason still has (I believe the count is now 28 not 29 - I bought a set) some of the old Classic Victorian (poker size - jumbo index) old stock left in the Wyvern/Phoenix (brown/orange) color combo.

Having said all that, let me add this.... if customer service means anything, nobody on the planet beats Jason. As anyone that ended up with a pooched deck of the last Modiano run will attest to.

I pretty much exclusively use poker sized card in my Shuffletech as I have had mixed results with bridge sized cards. Last night I had a session from 7pm up until about 3am. Not a single jam that required manual attention, the shuffler worked itself each time if there was a small snag. I'd say most sessions go by smooth and I usually only host games from 3-5 hours so the sample size is a bit smaller then if your game is running for hours on end. With Bridge cards I had a slightly higher percentage of jams since the cards don't fill the slot as well as poker sized cards do. For me the Shuffletech has been a home run purchase thus far. It'll be sad when it needs maintenance lol. I also make sure to keep the rollers clean with alcohol wipes and I use an air duster to keep the innards clean.

 

[Klobberer]

Just got mine and they are nice. They are much rougher textured than all of my other setups. They take longer to shuffle because I use the "riffle the corner and push them together" method. Do they get smoother with age? They are great for magic tricks where you don't want the cards sliding around.

 

[desjgn]

so the poker size cards are currently out of stock, correct? Can we put a reserve on a set?

You are able to purchase any of the decks listed in the first post. If quantities are low for a specific card style, it is also noted.

 

[Dix]

For me the Shuffletech has been a home run purchase thus far. It'll be sad when it needs maintenance lol.

OK, OK, stop twisting my arm, I give up!!! LOL

Seriously, thanks for that. I'm convinced... well... I was leaning that way anyway, so it didn't really take much to push me over the edge.

If I happen to not make the FT, I've always volunteered to deal the FT with either my wife or the TD sitting at a small table behind me as the "shuffler" of a second deck. Since I'm taking over as TD I'll always be dealing the FT now, & having one on a small cart kind of makes sense.

I hear you on the service deal... I've heard their customer service kind of blows. But, unless you want to spend 10x that on a used Shufflemaster it's kind of the only game in town.

At any rate, thanks again.... & I guess we can stop hijacking Jason's turf & return everyone to their regularly scheduled card sales infomercials.

 

[Lipnbass]

Just ordered a set of the Classic Baroque Bridge sized Jumbo. Looking forward to playing with these. Normaly use poker size but it sounds like a lot of people prefer the bridge size.

 

[200 Motels]

Finally got a deck of 4 color Desjgn in play last night. They feel a lot different than the Desjgn poker size (not just because the 4 color are bridge size) but they felt smoother/less textured and a little stiffer. I tried to make a crimp in the joker just to test the durability and it was very durable only bending with very forceful use and it bent back into shape easily.

 

[Undream]

Inaugural night with the shuffletech report:

I purchase two sets of Desjn cards. A set of the older Modiano poker size, and a set of the newer dal negro. I ripped open one deck of each.

Before my game I ran each set through the shuffletech 3-4 times without troubles... So figured I was in good shape.

Night started. A few people immediately noticed new cards at the table.

In the first hour of play, the Modiano deck jammed two times. I was able to recover both with a quick nudge of a few cards in the shuffletech with my hand. The Dal Negro deck also jammed twice in the first hour. One was a quick fix. The other time, several cards managed to turn 90 degrees in the shuffler, I had to take out all the cards manually and do a hard reset on it. I was convinced I would be switching back to copags.. but I decided to given them another half an hour.

To my pleasant surprise, the next 5 hours were flawless. No jams. No issues.

So, on to the report from my players, and me.

Personally, I liked the Modiano cards. I think I am in agreement with @Dix in that if I was hand shuffling these things would absolutely be preferred.

That said, the vote from my players ( we had a full table of 10!!) Was for the Dal Negro. They thought they felt sturdier and really liked the texture.

Honestly, they are both awesome in their own way.

I am hoping that the shuffletech continues to play nice with them as we use them for a few more sessions.

Thanks @desjgn !!

 

[Dix]

To my pleasant surprise, the next 5 hours were flawless. No jams. No issues.

Maybe just a little "break-in" of a fresh deck is in order?

Personally, I liked the Modiano cards. I think I am in agreement with @Dix in that if I was hand shuffling these things would absolutely be preferred.

That said, the vote from my players ( we had a full table of 10!!) Was for the Dal Negro. They thought they felt sturdier and really liked the texture.

Dealer likes one, players like the other.... Probably not the 1st time in history for that.

 

[CantSpellPoker]

@desjgn Apologies if this has been addressed, I haven’t read through the whole thread.

Is there a reason why the Gorgon/Sphinx and Dragon/Kraken setups for the Classic Victorian poker/jumbo cards are so much more textured than the Wyvern/Phoenix setup?

I already had the Wyvern/Phoenix poker/jumbo setup and it’s my favorite. I ordered the other two setups and was surprised to see such a texture difference, considering they’re all advertised as “Classic Victorians.”

Perhaps there was a switch to a new card stock at some point that I wasn’t aware of? Just curious.

 

[JMC9389]

@desjgn Apologies if this has been addressed, I haven’t read through the whole thread.

Is there a reason why the Gorgon/Sphinx and Dragon/Kraken setups for the Classic Victorian poker/jumbo cards are so much more textured than the Wyvern/Phoenix setup?

I already had the Wyvern/Phoenix poker/jumbo setup and it’s my favorite. I ordered the other two setups and was surprised to see such a texture difference, considering they’re all advertised as “Classic Victorians.”

Perhaps there was a switch to a new card stock at some point that I wasn’t aware of? Just curious.

Precisely. It's THE reason why Modiano are persona non grata around these parts.

 

[CantSpellPoker]

Precisely. It's THE reason why Modiano are persona non grata around these parts.

Right, I know the Modiano story, but I guess I’m not well versed in the actual specifics. Are the Wyvern/Phoenix setups Modiano stock and the others are something else?

 

[JMC9389]

Right, I know the Modiano story, but I guess I’m not well versed in the actual specifics. Are the Wyvern/Phoenix setups Modiano stock and the others are something else?

I'm pretty sure, and Jason can chime in on this, that the older Victorians are Modiano stock, and the newer Victorians are Dal Negro stock.

 

[Dix]

Yup, exactly.... The Wyvern/Phoenix sets are leftover Modiano stock. Which is why I bought up a few sets.

I have a post a page back with specifics on the difference.

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/ordering-links.16572/post-958536

Coincidentally, I've actually been working on a little project which expands on that post. Watch the Poker Playing Cards forum, I'm working on it as I type this.

 

[CantSpellPoker]

Yup, exactly.... The Wyvern/Phoenix sets are leftover Modiano stock. Which is why I bought up a few sets.

I have a post a page back with specifics on the difference.

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/ordering-links.16572/post-958536

Coincidentally, I've actually been working on a little project which expands on that post. Watch the Poker Playing Cards forum, I'm working on it as I type this.

Great post that describes exactly what I was asking about. Thanks. Unfortunately, the Dal Negro cards feel more like sandpaper when comparing them side by side to the original Classic Victorians or Classic Flourish, which are my absolute two favorite decks.

The only reason I even brought it up is because I would have loved to see the original Classic Victorian in more/different colors, but obviously that ship has sailed at this point.

I just ordered another couple of setups of the Wyvern/Phoenix to ensure that I have enough to last me for the foreseeable future.

 

[BearMetal]

Great post that describes exactly what I was asking about. Thanks. Unfortunately, the Dal Negro cards feel more like sandpaper when comparing them side by side to the original Classic Victorians or Classic Flourish, which are my absolute two favorite decks.

The only reason I even brought it up is because I would have loved to see the original Classic Victorian in more/different colors, but obviously that ship has sailed at this point.

I just ordered another couple of setups of the Wyvern/Phoenix to ensure that I have enough to last me for the foreseeable future.

So I got my set of Gorgon/Sphynx/Dragon/Kraken for last week's game. Everyone absolutely loved them - biggest comment by far was that they had the durability of plastic, but the slightly extra texture on the cards prevented the zero-friction-fly-off-the-table problem. They slid around nicely, but it wasn't air hockey.

Are you saying that the Wyvern/Phoenix are actually slicker? Also - if those are old stock Modiano, aren't you taking a chance on buying up the old stock that they'll have the same QC issues?

 

[desjgn]

Great post that describes exactly what I was asking about. Thanks. Unfortunately, the Dal Negro cards feel more like sandpaper when comparing them side by side to the original Classic Victorians or Classic Flourish, which are my absolute two favorite decks.

The only reason I even brought it up is because I would have loved to see the original Classic Victorian in more/different colors, but obviously that ship has sailed at this point.

I just ordered another couple of setups of the Wyvern/Phoenix to ensure that I have enough to last me for the foreseeable future.

Thank you @CantSpellPoker and my apologies for a tardy reply. Thank you the responses @Dix and @JMC9389. I do have extra Wyvern (18) and Chimaera (16) that could make sets, but it isn’t the best of contrast. I am curious to hear opinions on Dal Negro stock and if I should continue with it. I like the texture on both production runs.

 

[desjgn]

So I got my set of Gorgon/Sphynx/Dragon/Kraken for last week's game. Everyone absolutely loved them - biggest comment by far was that they had the durability of plastic, but the slightly extra texture on the cards prevented the zero-friction-fly-off-the-table problem. They slid around nicely, but it wasn't air hockey.

Are you saying that the Wyvern/Phoenix are actually slicker? Also - if those are old stock Modiano, aren't you taking a chance on buying up the old stock that they'll have the same QC issues?

Thank you @BearMetal for the compliments. The Wyvern/Phoenix didn’t have the QC issues. They are just a little thinner and have a different texture. I could send you a couple of sample cards so that you can compare.

 

[JMC9389]

Thank you @CantSpellPoker and my apologies for a tardy reply. Thank you the responses @Dix and @JMC9389. I do have extra Wyvern and Chimaera that could make sets, but it isn’t the best of contrast. I am curious to hear opinions on Dal Negro stock and if I should continue with it. I like the texture on both production runs.

I vote yes on the current Dal Negro textured stock. Even out of the shrink wrap, they weren't at all slick and are a dream to shuffle in a rotating dealer game. I can see how a dedicated dealer may get tired with a long session, as the stock is a bit on the thicker and stiffer side, which is what I like personally. I can also see how someone who may prefer a thinner, smoother stock may not like these, as well.

If you're asking me though, keep them coming!

 

[Dix]

(damn, I type too slow )

@BearMetal : Yea, The QC issue was with the Red (& a few Blue) decks only. Orange & Brown are fine. (as was Green & Purple)

Are the Modiano stock cards slicker?... Yea, somewhat. Same as any other linen finish card. I can see if you play on a hard tabletop where the more textured decks might be preferable.

My preference has to do with being a dealer. The softer Modiano stock shuffles much easier, and being slightly slicker they deal out perfectly without even paying attention. But they're not so slick they can be occasionally unmanageable.

IMO there's a reason the "Linen" finish has become something of a classic pseudo-standard amongst the majority of higher-end cards.

With Dal Negro's texture sometimes two cards try to come off the deck at once if you have a light touch.

So I guess I'll have to be a "no" on Dal Negro to balance out @JMC9389 above. At least on the textured stock. Whatever stock they use for the "Texas Poker" line is better feeling IMO. (and probably cheaper) Although, that is also rather stiff.

 

[CantSpellPoker]

Thank you @CantSpellPoker and my apologies for a tardy reply. Thank you the responses @Dix and @JMC9389. I do have extra Wyvern and Chimaera that could make sets, but it isn’t the best of contrast. I am curious to hear opinions on Dal Negro stock and if I should continue with it. I like the texture on both production runs.

Make no mistake that I believe it is still a good product on its own. If that was the first product line I tried, I'd still like it. I just happen to prefer the original Modiano stock. I can't find any fault with them, other than my previously stated desire for more colors.

If you're constantly shuffling, the original Classic Victorians are just so easy, especially if you're riffling and pushing them together. They glide together like a dream, whereas lots of other stocks require some effort to get the cards to come together. If you're doing an in-hand shuffle with a "bridge" finish, I don't care nearly as much.

 

[BearMetal]

@desjgn - No need - I just bought some ... Can't wait to compare them.

Something that I should mention is that my current table has a leather playing surface. This does make slick cards get up to 88MPH really easily. Perhaps this is why I hesitated moving to plastic cards for so long. Could also be why I love the texture and slide of the Dal Negro.

I just ordered my first big-boy table from Chanman and it's going to have the custom speed felt. So, that might change how I feel. Perhaps the Dal Negro cards will slow down too much on the felt. Luckily, I have some Wyvern/Phoenix coming my way so I can do a comparison...

 

[jcooper911]

Thank you @CantSpellPoker and my apologies for a tardy reply. Thank you the responses @Dix and @JMC9389. I do have extra Wyvern (18) and Chimaera (16) that could make sets, but it isn’t the best of contrast. I am curious to hear opinions on Dal Negro stock and if I should continue with it. I like the texture on both production runs.

I’m a fan of the Dal Negro, the textured tactile feel is preferable to me and the crew! Desjgn cards only all my games!

 

[JMC9389]

Make no mistake that I believe it is still a good product on its own. If that was the first product line I tried, I'd still like it. I just happen to prefer the original Modiano stock. I can't find any fault with them, other than my previously stated desire for more colors.

If you're constantly shuffling, the original Classic Victorians are just so easy, especially if you're riffling and pushing them together. They glide together like a dream, whereas lots of other stocks require some effort to get the cards to come together. If you're doing an in-hand shuffle with a "bridge" finish, I don't care nearly as much.

You are so right. Besides having a smoother stock, the cards are similar to the current Victorian's and shuffle just as well. The OG Grand Victorian's feel very similar to the ModiaNO Acetates that go for $30 a set up.

(damn, I type too slow )

@BearMetal : Yea, The QC issue was with the Red (& a few Blue) decks only. Orange & Brown are fine. (as was Green & Purple)

Are the Modiano stock cards slicker?... Yea, somewhat. Same as any other linen finish card. I can see if you play on a hard tabletop where the more textured decks might be preferable.

My preference has to do with being a dealer. The softer Modiano stock shuffles much easier, and being slightly slicker they deal out perfectly without even paying attention. But they're not so slick they can be occasionally unmanageable.

IMO there's a reason the "Linen" finish has become something of a classic pseudo-standard amongst the majority of higher-end cards.

With Dal Negro's texture sometimes two cards try to come off the deck at once if you have a light touch.

So I guess I'll have to be a "no" on Dal Negro to balance out @JMC9389 above. At least on the textured stock. Whatever stock they use for the "Texas Poker" line is better feeling IMO. (and probably cheaper) Although, that is also rather stiff.

I've found that the stock is just about the same thickness and the weight is about the same, but as you say, the only difference is that the stock is smooth rather than textured. It's just a matter of preference. The Texas Poker stock is still very good. I like a thicker stock compared to KEM's and Copag's that are floppy and soft. Again, just a matter of preference.

 

[BearMetal]

I got my delivery of Wyvern/Phoenix today and played some heads up hold em with them. They're awesome too. Could be the bourbon talking, but I think I prefer the grit of the Dal Negros. With that said, I still love this design... Grit or not. What a freaking awesome collection...

 

[Dix]

I've found that the stock is just about the same thickness and the weight is about the same,

If you haven't seen it yet, the "project" I mentioned above is up that breaks down all the decks I currently have kicking around...

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/the-redneck-poker-card-database.52229/

Boredom is a dangerous thing in these parts.

I believe you're right about the difference with the Dal Negro decks. They likely are on the same base stock, with the slight difference in stiffness coming from the textured coating.

 

[CantSpellPoker]

I snagged some Casino’s - they were delivered today. They are AWESOME! I like the feel and the color/designs so much that I’d probably overlook my preference for poker sized cards when selecting a deck to play with.

 

[sialia]

Disclaimer: My husband and are are not poker players, but are super casual players of card games who want to play games with better cards.
He riffle shuffles and I bridge shuffle. We have a set up of the green and purple poker sized classic victorians (I believe!) and he has a preference for those, while I prefer bridge sized cards and use our new 4 color set up when I am shuffling/dealing. Also, neither of us do the super sneak peek keep them on the board look (it is just the two of us playing) so jumbo index is fine by us. So, I like the newer card stock a lot, my husband slightly prefers the older stock but certainly has no problem using the newer stock.
All lovely cards.