PLO hand discussion (8 Viewers)

[grebe]

OK everyone, time to beat up on grebe! It's PLO strategy time!

This hand is at a .2/.4 PLO 6 max table....it is pretty crazy with the betting and deep stacks are going in. I sat short and I am up like $20, but I am still the smallest stack at the table with $54.

3 limpers to me in the BB, I have .

Check or Pot???

 

[Machine]

check

lines you up for a check raise if you hit the flop, or dump it when the flop comes 7 9 3

 

[detroitdad]

OK everyone, time to beat up on grebe! It's PLO strategy time!

This hand is at a .2/.4 PLO 6 max table....it is pretty crazy with the betting and deep stacks are going in. I sat short and I am up like $20, but I am still the smallest stack at the table with $54.

3 limpers to me in the BB, I have .

Check or Pot???

Pot

 

[Senzrock]

Always raising here. Life isn’t worth living if we can’t raise a hand like this at the micro stakes.

 

[grebe]

Always raising here. Life isn’t worth living if we can’t raise a hand like this at the micro stakes.

So are you saying you would raise this for what you consider micro stakes, but play differently when you consider it regular stakes?

 

[Senzrock]

So are you saying you would raise this for what you consider micro stakes, but play differently when you consider it regular stakes?

In a tough game that is say $2/2/5 PLO, I might consider checking given we are oop, but I am just never doing that at stakes where I think I have (and I assume you think you have) a significant skill edge.

 

[upNdown]

I’m probably checking this one - there are a few “second best” scenarios possible.

 

[DrStrange]

Hero has poor position and a stack just a bit more than 100bb. His hand is better than average, but not premium. No big pair means we don't want to get it in preflop. The five is suited and could make the wheel, let's call this a "generous" 4 card hand. <not really> This hand plays well multi way, but Hero has to hit the flop.

I might raise in a passive game, but not in an aggressive game. Especially not in a tricky aggressive game. Hero doesn't want to get the pot so big preflop that a big pair hand can play on auto piolet post flop.

I check and see the flop -=- DrStrange

 

[Rhodeman77]

I am raising this hand preflop. Like I have said before we need more than AAxx in our preflop raising range. Double suited with 3 to broadway is good enough for me to raise with. I want a pot that is significant enough that if we hit the flop decently hard we can put pressure on the other players. Limping makes for a small pot on the flop and we can’t bet enough for all the hands that flop 1 pair and some back door draws to fold.

 

[grebe]

This hand is at a .2/.4 PLO 6 max table....it is pretty crazy with the betting and deep stacks are going in. I sat short and I am up like $20, but I am still the smallest stack at the table with $54.

3 limpers to me in the BB, I have .

Moving on....

Hero pots to $1.80
UTG folds, MP, CO and BTN all call.
Pot is now $9
We get a lousy flop:



Action on us....anybody advocate taking a stab here?


EDIT: looking back, there was a 4th caller as well in the button. Just realized it when the pot didnt add up right.

 

[Kain8]

 

[detroitdad]

Moving on....

Hero pots to $1.80
UTG folds, MP, CO and BTN all call.
Pot is now $9
We get a lousy flop:



Action on us....anybody advocate taking a stab here?


EDIT: looking back, there was a 4th caller as well in the button. Just realized it when the pot didnt add up right.

I'm guessing at these stakes the flop play isn't any better than the pre flop play? Being short stack I'm tempted to pot it here and see where this ride rakes me. The problem with my play (a lot of problems lol) is that I can't take micro stakes seriously. Saying that, fuck it. Pot!

 

[Beakertwang]

I’m check/folding here. Maybe it will limp around and allow me to pick up some equity with a diamond.

 

[detroitdad]

I’m check/folding here. Maybe it will limp around and allow me to pick up some equity with a diamond.

That's probably the smarter play. I have top pair and two......TWO back door flush draws. I don't know how I can get away from this flop. It seems to get prettier every time I look at it.

 

[Rhodeman77]

Definitely a check here.

 

[upNdown]

I’m check/folding here. Maybe it will limp around and allow me to pick up some equity with a diamond.

Can’t argue with this. Four-way and we have shit? I’m happy to see a turn for free. I might even call one of those dumb-ass tiny bets that people sometimes make here. But prospects don’t look good.

 

[WedgeRock]

Check or Pot???

 

[Bradcorn]

Check calling a single bet without any raises. Lots of back door possibilities so worth seeing a relatively cheap turn card

 

[joker80]

Back doors to a second best straight and heart flush. Back door to the nut flush. Check. Don't want someone to check raise you here

 

[Senzrock]

Always a check, but depending on the action you can check-call here or check-fold here.

 

[Stufflymcstuff]

You just shouldn’t have many bluffs or value here and your default should be check. Preflop initiative in Omaha rarely means much, and on these boards being the preflop aggressor is a bad thing for your range. Your range is way behind theirs.

Even if you somehow had 64 or A4 id rather check, call and expect them to barrel off because of how weak my range looks. This is a routine mistake that beginner players make in Omaha - continuation betting in multi-way pots with way too many hands.

 

[Moxie Mike]

Question: Is this a private group somewhere online? Or are these random opponents?

At microstakes like these there don't tend to be as many savvy/tricky players who might limp/3-bet so that's not a huge concern.

Pre: Both checking and potting are fine options. If your game is strong enough to navigate multiway pots OOP then that leads more toward potting it... but checking your option is ok too. The thing is, with virtually all holdings in PLO you're going to need to improve via the flop in order to drag the pot. So by raising when you probably don't have much of an edge in terms of equity or position, you're really only building a pot for whomever connects best with the flop, and you're hoping it's you so you can bet as first to act.

The case for checking is when you're playing a 'get-in-cheap/get-out-cheap' strategy, which you should probably be in most low stakes PLO cash games. You don't win as much when you connect, but you lose the minimum when you whiff the flop and have to c/f, which you will a large % of the time.

So I lean toward a check here.

Post: You whiffed the flop. By betting you're essentially repping a made hand - which isn't very believable since you potted pre. Most people don't pot it from the BB while holding a bunch of wheel cards or small pairs.

Betting only stands to bloat the pot when you need a LOT of help to show down a winning hand. Against 3 opponents, chances are one of them connected with this flop in a substantial way. Betting here is just spewing.

Checking is the better option since you're probably not getting a c-bet all the way through. Best case scenario is the field checks back and you get a free turn card - but if someone bets, you have to fold.

TL;DR: Pre: both options are fine. Post: Anything other than checking & folding is -EV.

 

[WedgeRock]

I want a pot that is significant enough that if we hit the flop decently hard we can put pressure on the other players.

So by raising when you probably don't have much of an edge in terms of equity or position, you're really only building a pot for whomever connects best with the flop, and you're hoping it's you so you can bet as first to act.

The essence of the PFR decision in Omaha.

 

[grebe]

I check and it actually checks around.
Turn:.
Action on us...

 

[upNdown]

Now it seems safe to pot

 

[Beakertwang]

Now you very likely have the best hand with top 2. And if someone actually has a set, the check flop/lead turn looks l really strong.

I’m betting pot.

 

[detroitdad]

Now it seems safe to pot

Now you very likely have the best hand with top 2. And if someone actually has a set, the check flop/lead turn looks l really strong.

I’m betting pot.

Not for me. I was already all in on the flop.

 

[grebe]

In a tough game that is say $2/2/5 PLO, I might consider checking given we are oop, but I am just never doing that at stakes where I think I have (and I assume you think you have) a significant skill edge.

I'm guessing at these stakes the flop play isn't any better than the pre flop play?

At microstakes like these there don't tend to be as many savvy/tricky players who might limp/3-bet so that's not a huge concern.

I think that there seems to be a common theme that at these stakes, everybody is bad. I would disagree with this...These are not the lowest of the low here. You will always have decent players mixed in, and I am sitting with people that seem to not mind buying in for 200 big blinds. Assuming they are all bad is a mistake....some will be worse than others....but this is online and everybody is better than just live players....and some will be multi-tabling (which means they are going to player tighter and be better).

 

[grebe]

Question: Is this a private group somewhere online? Or are these random opponents?

This is poker bros. These are clubs that are several thousand people strong. There will be up to 20-30 plo games running at once, from .05/.10 up to $5/10. Mostly random opponents, but I do keep tabs on players as I go...and I color code them based on tendencies. No notes on anybody at this table though.

 

[Beakertwang]

Not for me. I was already all in on the flop.

That’s why you’re a better player than most!