Private game experiences? (1 Viewer)

[Sisu41]

But finding legit venues is tough, at least in my area. There aren’t many options.

Same here

 

[upNdown]

If I trust the host to hold a legit game, and use honest dealers, and see no signs of funny business, I often prefer “private” games to a casino.

Why?
Honest question. I believe you play at higher stakes, so I totally can't relate. But personally, I enjoy the casino experience pretty much from top to bottom. But I tend to prefer more structured, less personal things. So maybe it's just that simple. But if I were ever to move up in stakes, I would 100% be doing that with the security of a casino.

 

[Taghkanic]

I guess I'd call it a card game.
I'm not sure what you're getting at. Sounds like a game at a social club maybe? I don't know why it matters what we call it, as long as we understand the conditions of the game. But I guess I'd call it a home game.

All I’m getting at is that the terms seem unclear to me.

I wouldn’t tend to refer to a game held in an office building as a “home” game, even if it were unraked, more casual and more socially-motivated than most home games.

Just because that seems confusing.

(Jimmy: “I’m going to a home game in the my buddy’s auto body shop.” Joe: “Your buddy lives in his auto body shop?”)

 

[Taghkanic]

Why?
Honest question. I believe you play at higher stakes, so I totally can't relate. But personally, I enjoy the casino experience pretty much from top to bottom.”

Why? I find casinos dismal, dirty and depressing. Rant comin’ up!

I recently spent 4.5 days in a casino environment (for a WSOP circuit event). The WSOP part was terrific. But being in a casino that long was soul-crushing. For me anyway.

I hate the cheezy glitz. The walks past solitary senior citizens pissing away their retirement checks at slot machines. The lowest common denominator music. The too-salty or too-sweet food. The dirty carpets, dirty chips, unsanitary everything. The often lousy “professional” dealers. The unshowered guy to my left. The sniffling guy with undisclosed COVID to my right. (I’ve gotten it twice, both shortly after long casino sessions.) The desperate single mother waitresses wearing skimpy outfits and flirting clumsily in hopes of getting better tips to feed their kids. Sitting under a vent blasting either arctic or tropical air. The cramped tables overstuffed with 9 or 10 players *plus* a dealer.

For me, it’s basically like going to the county fair—something I also don’t enjoy anymore—except there’s not even any sunlight or pettable farm animals, and you are forced to sit for 8 hours with random fair attendees.

Maybe I’ve not been to a good casino. My sample size is basically the 5-6 places closest to me. None of them very close. so travel time is another consideration.

By contrast, I try my best to run a solid home game. Not a fancy game—there is no high-end liquor or hot waitresses or Russian mobsters buying in with Monets. I heat with a wood stove for chrissakes... Just aiming to hold a really well-run game. I’m constantly trying to make small improvements both to the game itself and the overall environment. And on the rare occasion that I find a host with similar priorities, I’ll play there 99 times out of 100 over a casino.

 

[Taghkanic]

P.S. re.: Safety: I think it depends more on the venue and the players rather than the type of game.

The safest I ever felt at a poker table was at a private game at a house in the woods, where the players included a State Trooper, the Town Justice, and a massively strong farmer. Almost no one knew about the game. And only a fool would have tried to rob it.

Casinos seem safe… Sort of? Most casino security seems like pretty low-rent stuff. If a patron is carrying and loses his temper, can the guards really handle it? Before someone gets hurt or worse?

Not sure that being in a place with hundreds of people, many drunk, many playing with money they can’t really afford to lose, in a culture where gun rights are considered sacred, is truly that safe. There was a mass shooting at a casino in memory after all.

 

[MrCatPants]

It might be useful to define what makes something a private game instead of a home game.

I have assumed that “private game” is a more general term, of which home games are a subset.

However my sense is that many are using “private game” less generally, to mean a non-casino game run more as a business than a social event.

And that the game is held in a venue other than a home (an office, garage, industrial park, basement of a restaurant or bar, or other commercial space); or if held in a home, that the game operator is someone other than the home owner or partners with the home owner.

Likewise it seems “private game” may imply that the players are not necessarily social friends, but more random people who for one reason or another have snagged an invite.

Lastly, are all private games raked? Under the definitions above, that would seem unheard of.

How do others define it?

Private games with a rake that generally have a semi-open invite are referred to as "underground" games here.

Home games, whether or not they have a rake, generally have a closed invitation process.

 

[bmacpoker]

I think it has a lot to do with how reputable and trustworthy the host is.

If the game uses dealers, that eliminates many cheating opportunities, unless the dealers are colluding with specific players or otherwise creating action to benefit the house.

If I trust the host to hold a legit game, and use honest dealers, and see no signs of funny business, I often prefer “private” games to a casino.

But finding legit venues is tough, at least in my area. There aren’t many options.

Oh for sure... I guess that's what I mean when I specify the over-advertised stuff. I can't imagine deciding to play at those stakes (and you know they play bigger) without knowing the host and venue a bit better. Stuff that is vouched for and all that, I understand it being preferable to a casino. I'm just suspicious of the ones plastering "GIRLS! BOMB POTS! 5/5 PLO!"

 

[Taghkanic]

Underground seems like a useful term.

Kind of paradoxical that private games are generally more public-facing than homes games, right?

 

[bmacpoker]

I think rake means part of every pot

I got into a pedantic back and forth on reddit about this. In the context of a microstakes home game with friends, someone mentioned using the rake as a way to pay for a table and other accessories. When I questioned raking a small 5c/10c game with buddies, I said I'd never as a host ask for my friends to pay a rake. He then went on to say a small fee or even guests providing snacks and drinks is what he meant by rake.

 

[TheYeti]

I got into a pedantic back and forth on reddit about this. In the context of a microstakes home game with friends, someone mentioned using the rake as a way to pay for a table and other accessories. When I questioned raking a small 5c/10c game with buddies, I said I'd never as a host ask for my friends to pay a rake. He then went on to say a small fee or even guests providing snacks and drinks is what he meant by rake.

I would never expect my players to chip in for my table/chips/chairs/cards/etc. I'm the one who decided what I liked and what to buy, that's all on me.

 

[Random Phish]

It might be useful to define what makes something a private game instead of a home game.

I define a private game as a game with a dealer and some sort of fee (rake, time charge,etc.) The location doesn’t matter. The players may or may not know each other.

What would one call a social, unraked game, attended by close friends, and not organized for the host to profit… but held somewhere other than a home?

For me this is still a home game.

When everyone says rake, do they mean percentage of pot or per pot like a casino? Or are you including door/seat fees as a form of rake?

I consider any fee to play as rake, even though in a casino context rake is specific to money taken out of the pots.

 

[bmacpoker]

I would never expect my players to chip in for my table/chips/chairs/cards/etc. I'm the one who decided what I liked and what to buy, that's all on me.

100% agree. Especially my friend group. I just found it funny the goalposts moving on what a rake is, was curious what people here thought.

 

[Legend5555]

Where I live, there is no choice. You play in private games or you drive 3 hours to Cherokee and pay almost the same rake.

The ones I go are a mixed bag. One is very nice. A double mag lock door, cameras, nice chairs, two tables, full bar. Game runner owns a bar in the same strip mall and you can order food from there for free.

Another is a bit dumpy, multiple tables, bit still free food and drinks.

Another is in an apartment, has the worst table and chairs, but has decent action. And I'm friends with the runner.

I'm all these games, the dealers are good, and the game runners are very trustworthy. Never any issues with payments or cash outs. Def not true of all games around town though. I've done my due diligence.

 

[Taghkanic]

I would never expect my players to chip in for my table/chips/chairs/cards/etc. I'm the one who decided what I liked and what to buy, that's all on me.

Me, neither. Those purchases are not only my own choices, they are objects which I can sell. Some of them (e.g. my chips and chairs) at a profit.

If someone charges their players for the game gear, then the players effectively own a share of it. If/when sold, the host ought to be kicking back to the players. But it would be nearly impossible for anyone not doing Asperger’s-grade recordkeeping to say who owned what share. Just a non-starter.

 

[Taghkanic]

A double mag lock door, cameras, nice chairs, two tables, full bar.

I guess I’ll be showing my rural bias with this comment... But if I went to a game and there were a zillion locks, heavy surveillance, guards, pat-downs, etc., that would honestly make me more nervous. It’s screaming: We have a potential problem in this location.

(I do have cameras on my [remote rural] property, but they are not for the game per se. Mostly I use them for stuff like knowing when a package has arrived, whether the annoying neighbors’ idiot dogs have gotten loose again, capturing a fun video of the pack of wild turkeys which swings through a couple times a year... I have used these exactly once to identify a trespasser. I don’t feel I need them just because I host a game and I don’t know if my players realize I have them.)

 

[Legend5555]

I guess I’ll be showing my rural bias with this comment... But if I went to a game and there were a zillion locks, heavy surveillance, guards, pat-downs, etc., that would honestly make me more nervous. It’s screaming: We have a potential problem in this location.

(I do have cameras on my [remote rural] property, but they are not for the game per se. Mostly I use them for stuff like knowing when a package has arrived, whether the annoying neighbors’ idiot dogs have gotten loose again, capturing a fun video of the pack of wild turkeys which swings through a couple times a year... I have used these exactly once to identify a trespasser. I don’t feel I need them just because I host a game and I don’t know if my players realize I have them.)

Well, this game is in an empty unit in a strip mall near a college bar. I'm not going to say it's all necessary. But it sure helps when the cops show up sometimes at the bar.

 

[Senzrock]

Others have said similar things, but for me living in Brooklyn, I understand the terms like this:

Home game: generally closed game (occasionally opened up if an extra 1-2 players are needed for the game to run), with little to no (more often no rake). When there is rake at a home game, it is regarding a very specific thing - an invited dealer or food. Home games tend to be lower stakes (not always of course) and less “serious” and more “fun” (vague definition I know) than other games due to players having a relationship with each other and being there primarily to hang out and not make a living. Home games do not have to take place in an actual home, but are the vast majority of the time.

Private game: To me a private game is an organized operation that seeks to generate income through running the game. That starts with the rake, which in NYC is off the charts. Private games can be super fun (think whale who is splashing around distributing thousands to the regs) but I personally find them much more tense (I am thinking about the rake, the security protocols, watching the dealer more closely etc). They are generally higher stakes (though not always) - or if not, at least there is often way more money on the table. Private games are semi-public facing (ironic as others have pointed out), because their primary challenge is to bring in new players since their rake is generally unbeatable. Home game’s biggest challenge is generally getting your buddy to commit to a few hours of poker on a Thursday night when he hasn’t asked his significant other yet

I agree with @Taghkanic on all of the reasons why the cash majority of casinos make for a terrible experience (nice summation of everything that is depressing in a casino atmosphere). I much prefer home games. However, to point out the obvious, casinos offer one thing that 99% of home games don’t - unlimited amounts of $ to be made, especially in large tournaments, which, like playing the lottery, allow you to fantasize about a big score in a way that playing $1/2 with your buddies does not (and this is a major motivating factor for so many players of course).

 

[Taghkanic]

I agree with @Taghkanic on all of the reasons why the cash majority of casinos make for a terrible experience (nice summation of everything that is depressing in a casino atmosphere). I much prefer home games. However, to point out the obvious, casinos offer one thing that 99% of home games don’t - unlimited amounts of $ to be made, especially in large tournaments, which, like playing the lottery, allow you to fantasize about a big score in a way that playing $1/2 with your buddies does not (and this is a major motivating factor for so many players of course).

The bummer for me is that the three casinos nearest me basically stopped hosting big tournaments during the pandemic, and have not resumed. They have their goofy weekly- or twice-weekly tourneys for 40-50 players, but I find these uninteresting. The player pool is stagnant, and the amount of money to be won not worth an hour’s drive in both directions.

 

[upNdown]

The bummer for me is that the three casinos nearest me basically stopped hosting big tournaments during the pandemic, and have not resumed. They have their goofy weekly- or twice-weekly tourneys for 40-50 players, but I find these uninteresting. The player pool is stagnant, and the amount of money to be won not worth an hour’s drive in both directions.

Same here. Precovid, there were numerous 50-100 runner tournaments in the $100 or less range every week, at NH cardrooms within an hour of me. Those never came back. So now my best options are at the big casinos where I have to pay more for a worse structure. I guess I should be greatful I have those options, but I miss the cheap tournaments against bad competition.

 

[Jimulacrum]

My experience with raked private games is generally negative.

I played in several different ones when I lived in NYC. There was maybe one (named Felted, with great equipment and decent custom chips) that I would recommend to anyone. Rake was casino-level (10% to $5 or $6, IIRC), but was more reasonable than most of the NYC games I'd been to (10% to $7 + $5 extra at $200, with dealers encouraged to grab more "rake" whenever possible).

Felted actually provided some value for the rake—drinks, snacks, waitstaff, fresh equipment, etc. Most of the other hosts were raking the games to death for no real benefit, unless you consider kicking 10% each to all the people who owned the player lists a "benefit." Old tables, chips, and cards, really nothing special, just a dealer (who was instructed to steal).

I suppose raked private games can run the gamut between these two extremes, but the truth is you won't really know until you know, and often it's not worth the trouble. Home games are superior, and casinos are tolerable when necessary.

 

[Senzrock]

My experience with raked private games is generally negative.

I played in several different ones when I lived in NYC. There was maybe one (named Felted, with great equipment and decent custom chips) that I would recommend to anyone. Rake was casino-level (10% to $5 or $6, IIRC), but was more reasonable than most of the NYC games I'd been to (10% to $7 + $5 extra at $200, with dealers encouraged to grab more "rake" whenever possible).

Felted actually provided some value for the rake—drinks, snacks, waitstaff, fresh equipment, etc. Most of the other hosts were raking the games to death for no real benefit, unless you consider kicking 10% each to all the people who owned the player lists a "benefit." Old tables, chips, and cards, really nothing special, just a dealer (who was instructed to steal).

I suppose raked private games can run the gamut between these two extremes, but the truth is you won't really know until you know, and often it's not worth the trouble. Home games are superior, and casinos are tolerable when necessary.

Felted was one of the better clubs agreed.