Yeah, I almost started another thread about it, but we've had tipping threads before, so why bother. But I too thought it was a great point and I'll just reiterate the question - why the hell are we tipping dealers for HHJs and BBJs when all that money's already been tipped on before? I can understand being a jolly fellow and spreading around the joy and wealth, but it seems like a bullshit expectation (if there is an expectation.)
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High hand grumbles at private game (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Taghkanic
- Start date
$20 max though... in my opinion
Attendance at a home game is a privilege NOT A RIGHT. If you get an invite everything comes down to one concept - respect the house/ game. If you don’t, don’t expect to get invited back. If you got great service from the dealer, tip him/her accordingly - like you would if you got great service from your waiter at a restaurant. This shows respect. You certainly do not need to be the worlds biggest tipper but when you win a hand give a little something to show you appreciate the service. If you hit and run that disrespects the host’s efforts to fill all seats and disrespects the players that wanted to play that night and didn’t get a seat. If you consider either of these two things as being okay to do, then have fun playing at the casino.
On the other hand, I don’t see playing tight as a sign of disrespect. It’s your seat for the night play however you want, and a game certainly doesn’t need 8/9 maniacs (believe me I have tried this - it’s like putting too much TSP in your ultrasonic). And it could be that a new player needs to time to ease into the game a bit before going off the deep end. However, if you smoke an action player and then sit on the win and stop giving action, you run the risk that the action player says he doesn’t want to play with you anymore and that means your are done.
Mr. Guest clearly does not understand the above referenced concepts. If I were the host, I would not invite him back (mainly because of leaving early thing without letting me know before the game). But I also would not be doing HHJs. Bangers and bomb pots instead …… let’s goooooooo.
On the other hand, I don’t see playing tight as a sign of disrespect. It’s your seat for the night play however you want, and a game certainly doesn’t need 8/9 maniacs (believe me I have tried this - it’s like putting too much TSP in your ultrasonic). And it could be that a new player needs to time to ease into the game a bit before going off the deep end. However, if you smoke an action player and then sit on the win and stop giving action, you run the risk that the action player says he doesn’t want to play with you anymore and that means your are done.
Mr. Guest clearly does not understand the above referenced concepts. If I were the host, I would not invite him back (mainly because of leaving early thing without letting me know before the game). But I also would not be doing HHJs. Bangers and bomb pots instead …… let’s goooooooo.
Bangers?
Bangers = flips = waterfalls …….
As in all the money going in is in preflop and the hand runs out from there without further betting? As opposed to a bomb pot where everyone is in for a set amount preflop and play picks up from the flop?
Banger/flip - everyone puts in a set amount into the pot and is dealt their hands (we do 5 card plo hands). The board is run out and the person with the best hand wins the pot. Straight gambling.
Yeah, that's what I was attempting to say, it's like you're all in preflop in the dark. They were running flip n go single table tournaments when I went to the casino last, 10 people just tossing $200 into the void and hoping it runs their way. I could only watch in horror.
Bluegrass Poker
Flush
Please explain the rake structure for this game since that seems to be affecting a lot of opinions.
grandmeme
Straight
Exactly my point. Get him to leave. No sense in someone "sitting out" for extended periods.
grandmeme
Straight
Some poker players don't realise this.. If you are invited to a fun, splashy game, you can play very tight. Like VERY tight. Nobody cares really, you just won't get an invite back. How do the best players always get an invite back? They make up for it in other ways.. Phil Laak is a fantastic example. Biggest nit but everyone loves playing with him.
If you aren't sociable enough, put the double straddle on. Blind raise to 4BB one time every session.. Play a flop game with someone on the side. Let the whales have a bit of fun. That's all they want, really. Help them enjoy playing poker.. And they'll reward you with some cash. Very simple.
My opinion on this case, sure the guy shouldn't have locked up and snap left. But that's his decision. Will he get an invite back to my game? Probably not. But again no need to ridicule the poor guy. Maybe $1000 is a lot of money for him, like some posters have suggested.
grandmeme
Straight
Also to be clear I am referring to raked homegames/casino games where you are playing to make significant amounts of money (relative ofc). Unraked/friendly homegames where the stakes are low, I am splashing around, let me donate a few hundred to one of my friends lol.
Yes. But That only makes sense if there’s somebody to fill his seat.
Though I have seen home games with guys waiting, it’s rare, in my experience.
Don't attend a PCF Meet-Up
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Haha, yeah, I’ve been taken aback by that.
I always assume people choose poker because it’s the least gambly of gambling. But no, that’s just me. Most poker players are degenerates.
That would be a special occasion. And it's not that I'm against a bit of gamble, but one buy-in on one hand in the dark makes my poor bankroll weep.
B.C.
Straight
Racking up a win is hardly anything goes.
chicubs1988
Flush
I'm confused....your post says you quoted me, but it contains someone else's reply
BarrieJ3
Royal Flush
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You'd be suprised!
Going all in blind the first 10-20 hands of a cash game isn't as -EV as you'd expect. I mean it's certainly not good, but it's not horrid either
As the person whose reply it contained, I too was a bit confused but decided to just go with it.
Rakrul
Straight
You Americans and your fucked up tipping culture. 
Instead of paying proper salaries, you outsource it to your customers. Granted, this example is a much smaller scale but in general you're taking (some of) the cost for the multi-billions corporations which makes zero sense to me. That being said, it's pretty much the same for all dealers in european casinos as well.
I remember in Copenhagen casino some 10-15 years ago and a friend of mine won a sort of jackpot on one the slots. I think it was somewhere around $1k - $1.5k and then some casino guys comes up to verify and hands him a ticket with the price money to bring to the cashier but on the slip there was 5% or 10% tip. It was a mandatory tip. On a slot machine. Oh and it was the same when playing Caribean Stud against the bank and you hit some sort of bonus there. So, yeah - there's that over here. I still blame you guys for it though.
Instead of paying proper salaries, you outsource it to your customers. Granted, this example is a much smaller scale but in general you're taking (some of) the cost for the multi-billions corporations which makes zero sense to me. That being said, it's pretty much the same for all dealers in european casinos as well.I remember in Copenhagen casino some 10-15 years ago and a friend of mine won a sort of jackpot on one the slots. I think it was somewhere around $1k - $1.5k and then some casino guys comes up to verify and hands him a ticket with the price money to bring to the cashier but on the slip there was 5% or 10% tip. It was a mandatory tip. On a slot machine. Oh and it was the same when playing Caribean Stud against the bank and you hit some sort of bonus there. So, yeah - there's that over here. I still blame you guys for it though.
Not sure how or why. Let's just go with it.
chicubs1988
Flush
OP
OP
What are these “feelings” again?
I said nothing about the situation in game.
I’m not asking the host to change any rules related to the high hand.
I’m not saying the guy didn’t have a right to not tip and to essentially hit & run.
I *am* saying he showed poor etiquette and a lack of awareness of how to remain welcome in an invite-only game.
Shocking!
OP
OP
In the comments, I explained that this specific host (who is not me) requires that the HH winner can go south with anything above 200BB.
So in this case the winner (who had maybe 450BB after the hand) had to keep 200 on the table and immediately pocketed the other 250.
He then nitted it up and played no more hands except from his BB when there were no preflop raises before leading.
In my own game, the HH has to stay on the table until the winner leaves, so that the jackpot remains in circulation. (No one that I host would hit & run with it, I don’t think.)
OP
OP
It’s not my game. I’m just a reg there. A lot of commenters seem to have missed that part.
As far as HHJs, a lot of other threads advise these promotions as a way to boost attendance. I’ve never seen a problem arise from them before in this game or others I play in, or the game I host myself.
I did witness a big dispute once in another game over a Bad Beat Jackpot, but that was a much more complicated situation (not worth getting into here in detail) related to alleged signaling to get the hands to showdown. Generally I think BBJs cause much more angst and trouble.
You stated on this thread that you posted to take opinions back to some of the regulars at this game. This is yet another opinion to bring back to the proverbial table.
And wanting to “boost attendance” sounds more like a card room or casino than a home game. If the jackpot was created truly to boost attendance, then the above player really understood the assignment. Won the jackpot and bailed.
Based on this thread alone, there were already 2 problems with this jackpot, both with this same player.
DrStrange
4 of a Kind
I am coming to think this is more about a for profit game, given the resistance to discussing what "lightly raked" means. I expect that sort of information is first post or at least first page worthy. Waiting until the crew forces the issue makes the eventual "story" about the rake appear dubious. I would always give the presumption of a trustworthy OP at the original post. Waiting a 100+ posts and several days to reveal the rake under duress voids OP's presumption of truthfulness.
There is a world of difference between "everyone pitches in to cover specific costs" Vs we take a rake, pay for everything and pocket the difference. OP knows the collective loathing PCF might rightfully heap on for profit "home games". Let's just go with the thread is about a for profit underground game and go forward. The answers don't change much.
The level of animosity aimed at responders is way out of line. OP asked for the collective opinion of PCF, which he got. Don't like the answers? Then don't ask the question(s). No matter how OP protests it wasn't him grumbling about the nitty not-tipping player, the rest of his work in the thread suggests otherwise. Seems OP got as aggravated about the stuff he "didn't care about" as he was with replies responsive to how best to run or not run high hand promotions
Some people don't care for how players tip the dealer. Fine, raise the rake or take less profit and pay the staff better. It isn't the customer's job to pay for the game runner's cost of labor. Could even establish a mandatory "tip" - the dealer can just take his/her pay straight out of the pot before pushing it. Think the promotions should be shared with the dealer? Then take the dealer's fee straight from the jackpot.
The host / game runner has the power to do all of this. It is his/her own business they can do whatever they please. Don't come whining when the owner's poor business decisions end up with undesirable results. Have him put on the big boy pants and do better next time.
It isn't crazy to have special promotions for more important customers. Businesses do that all the time. Again, this is one of those "big boy" decisions. Most of us don't run home poker games as a business. The profit maximizing method for running the promotion in the original post isn't obvious. OP has a lot of replies about problems that might arise in a true social home game. Perhaps they apply to his situation but maybe not.
Don't be rude. The original poster is getting free advice. Worth every penny paid, likely more. Again, if Hero doesn't want advice, then he shouldn't ask our opinion.
People running a business should be very selective about firing customers. No matter how hot the place may be this month, there is no guarantee next month is the same. I appreciate keeping the regulars happy and coming back takes priority over saving an irregular player. "86ing" a poor tipper who is a bit too nitty could be making the best of a bad situation.
Big boy decisions are sometimes hard -=- DrStrange.
There is a world of difference between "everyone pitches in to cover specific costs" Vs we take a rake, pay for everything and pocket the difference. OP knows the collective loathing PCF might rightfully heap on for profit "home games". Let's just go with the thread is about a for profit underground game and go forward. The answers don't change much.
The level of animosity aimed at responders is way out of line. OP asked for the collective opinion of PCF, which he got. Don't like the answers? Then don't ask the question(s). No matter how OP protests it wasn't him grumbling about the nitty not-tipping player, the rest of his work in the thread suggests otherwise. Seems OP got as aggravated about the stuff he "didn't care about" as he was with replies responsive to how best to run or not run high hand promotions
Some people don't care for how players tip the dealer. Fine, raise the rake or take less profit and pay the staff better. It isn't the customer's job to pay for the game runner's cost of labor. Could even establish a mandatory "tip" - the dealer can just take his/her pay straight out of the pot before pushing it. Think the promotions should be shared with the dealer? Then take the dealer's fee straight from the jackpot.
The host / game runner has the power to do all of this. It is his/her own business they can do whatever they please. Don't come whining when the owner's poor business decisions end up with undesirable results. Have him put on the big boy pants and do better next time.
It isn't crazy to have special promotions for more important customers. Businesses do that all the time. Again, this is one of those "big boy" decisions. Most of us don't run home poker games as a business. The profit maximizing method for running the promotion in the original post isn't obvious. OP has a lot of replies about problems that might arise in a true social home game. Perhaps they apply to his situation but maybe not.
Don't be rude. The original poster is getting free advice. Worth every penny paid, likely more. Again, if Hero doesn't want advice, then he shouldn't ask our opinion.
People running a business should be very selective about firing customers. No matter how hot the place may be this month, there is no guarantee next month is the same. I appreciate keeping the regulars happy and coming back takes priority over saving an irregular player. "86ing" a poor tipper who is a bit too nitty could be making the best of a bad situation.
Big boy decisions are sometimes hard -=- DrStrange.
Spot on. When the quote of "boost attendance" was used, it sure seemed this terminology was used for a for profit home game.
Rakrul
Straight
Right. Which in turn causes a player who this is a considerable win for, to nit up.
In any game, you want to get new fish in to keep the pool alive. Losing players usually don't know how to play deep so they have to nit up to not lose their prize. This is a player who comes in once in a while to try and double up and get out. If he lose his original buy in, he leaves. This is usually not a winning strategy so you want those guys to get the wins they get or they won't come back.
The problem with them having 450BBs at the table (as per your game) Is that if they continue to play and end up leaving with 250BB it will feel like a loss to them, making it less likely that they'll come back. (Probably not a problem at your game, but in general.)
We also have to separate home games and casino games (i.e. with rake) here as they facilitate two different demographics with (mostly) two different motivations. You host and play in home games for the social aspect, while hosting and playing raked games are for profit. Sure, you'll find recs at casino games who just wants to play and don't mind paying a bit for their hobby, but the main crowd at a casino/raked game is there to profit from recs and bad regs. Suddenly bloating a losing player's stack by 3-5x will make that player take that money and run, to spend it at a TV, a gaming console, power tools, etc. while you would rather keep that money circling in the poker room's economy. Equally, if a winning player gets it, you need to bad beat him outta the money.
A few times (like per your game) it will stay there, but mostly not. The idea behind these bonuses is that the host (casino or home game) thinks it makes players come back and/or it recruits new players but I highly doubt it. If anything it makes the winner in any venue worried about pissing it away so they lock it up and try to get home to spend it on something else.
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