***SPOILERS*** Star Wars the Force Awakens Open Discusion Thread ***SPOILERS*** (4 Viewers)

[QuiQuog]

This thread is for open discussion of Star Wars the Force Awakens. It contains spoilers. Do not continue reading if you don't want to know.


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OMG! Han Solo Dies!
Whew! That felt good.

I've only seen it once, and that was with my kids, one of which spent time on my lap cowering from the gruesome and scary characters. I also made the mistake of tossing back a large Pepsi before the movie even started. Anyway, I have a couple of questions that have been bugging me.

1. Where did the ship that captured the Millennium Falcon come from? Who's ship was it? And where did the baddies come from that blocked Han and company in the passage way?
2. Before I saw it, I speculated that Rey and Kilo Ren were the children of Han and Leia. Now, with the way Lukes light saber reacted to her, and the fact that she was sent to his hidden location, it looks like Rey is Luke's daughter. Does anybody have any speculation or insight into that?

I haven't read any of the books leading up to The Force Awakens, so I don't know if they touched on this or not, but is there any explanation of where the First Order and Snoke come from?

With Han out of the picture, will Finn be taking on the role of scoundrel, or will it be Rey since she's a pilot somehow, and is captaining the MF with Chewy as copilot?

 

[bergs]

Ren was definitely Han and Leia's daughter. I'm assuming Rey is as well - Luke and Leia; Ren and Rey....just fits. She's sentient enough with the Force that touching the lightsaber belonging to Luke would give her visions.

I thought it was interesting that the Force seems to manifest itself in different ways. We've seen alot of characters do alot of things with the Force over 7 episodes now, but I've never seen someone stop a blaster bolt in midair. That was great.

 

[Trihonda]

I think Rey is Luke's daughter, though a case could be made for Hans/Leia's as well.. Han/Leia seem to have their full wits about them, knowing they had a son (albeit one that turned). I'd think they would know if they had a daughter. I think Leia and Rey had a connection, but not the mother/daughter kind. Pretty much rules out being Han/Leia's daughter.

Luke on the other hand, is a mystery. He's been AWOL, and there's some secretive history with his starting the jedi-temple, etc... It's completely viable for him to have met some other female Jedi, copulated, and then giving birth to Rey.

I'd say that if Ren were strong enough to stop a blaster bolt mid-air, after years of training under Luke, and the dark side... AND seeing as how he had his ass summarily handed to him by a recently awoken jedi (with ZERO training), I'd say Rey's lineage might be deeper with the force. Both have Anikin as their grandfather, but Luke (unlike Liea) was the one who's ability veered towards making and fixing droids and other mechanical gadgetry, and Luke was a crazy good pilot, a Jedi skill. Han is a great pilot, but that's not hereditary. And Leia is "strong" with the force, but her powers never really seemed to manifest. I'd make and educated guess that Rey is Luke and another yet unidentified jedi's daughter (based on her overwhelming proclivity with the force).

There's also the scene where it seemed like Rey was separated from some group early on. This might be from the Jedi academy, when Ren began his slaughter, and Luke disappeared. Luke might have hidden Rey all along... Who knows, Rey might have been a secret to those at the Jedi academy (due to some secret forbidden Jedi romance)? So many questions...

Totally reminds me of the debate we had of trying to figure out who Luke's father was... Ha!! So cool!

 

[Ronoh]

Ren was definitely Han and Leia's daughter. I'm assuming Rey is as well - Luke and Leia; Ren and Rey....just fits.

Don't let the long hair fool you, pretty sure Ren is their son

Rey isn't Han and Leia's daughter... that wouldn't make much sense with her being dumped on a desert planet somewhere. Nearly 100% sure she is Luke's. Didn't the first teaser trailer from a year ago have Luke's voice going through the schpeel of "The force is strong in my family. My father had it. My sister has it. I have it. My daughter has it..."? Guess that was released before they knew exactly what Episode VII was going to contain

 

[Trihonda]

"The force is strong in my family. My father had it. My sister has it. I have it. My daughter has it..."

I thought that character Mos, all but said it in the basement storage hallway. She told Rey, that light saber was passed down from Anikin Skywalker, to his son Luke Skywalker, and now to you".. Paraphrasing here, but I got the impression there was little room for doubt, Rey was Luke's daughter. And as I said above, she's too powerful to be anything BUT his daughter (and prob with another strong Jedi betrayed by Ren).

Man, a bunch of Jedi patawons get together in a temple, and they always get slaughtered by some dark side, betrayin bitch! Wish Mace had followed through with Palpatine when he had the chance. Can't hesitate with sh!t like that! When you sit and talk, you always give the opponent time to find a way out... Classic James Bond villainy.

 

[Ronoh]

I thought that character Mos, all but said it in the basement storage hallway. She told Rey, that light saber was passed down from Anikin Skywalker, to his son Luke Skywalker, and now to you".. Paraphrasing here, but I got the impression there was little room for doubt, Rey was Luke's daughter. And as I said above, she's too powerful to be anything BUT his daughter (and prob with another strong Jedi betrayed by Ren).

Yeah, in my head it was pretty much confirmed when I left the theater... took me reading this thread to realize there may still be some question about it somehow

 

[QuiQuog]

I think Rey is Luke's daughter, though a case could be made for Hans/Leia's as well.. Han/Leia seem to have their full wits about them, knowing they had a son (albeit one that turned). I'd think they would know if they had a daughter. I think Leia and Rey had a connection, but not the mother/daughter kind. Pretty much rules out being Han/Leia's daughter.

Luke on the other hand, is a mystery. He's been AWOL, and there's some secretive history with his starting the jedi-temple, etc... It's completely viable for him to have met some other female Jedi, copulated, and then giving birth to Rey.

I'd say that if Ren were strong enough to stop a blaster bolt mid-air, after years of training under Luke, and the dark side... AND seeing as how he had his ass summarily handed to him by a recently awoken jedi (with ZERO training), I'd say Rey's lineage might be deeper with the force. Both have Anikin as their grandfather, but Luke (unlike Liea) was the one who's ability veered towards making and fixing droids and other mechanical gadgetry, and Luke was a crazy good pilot, a Jedi skill. Han is a great pilot, but that's not hereditary. And Leia is "strong" with the force, but her powers never really seemed to manifest. I'd make and educated guess that Rey is Luke and another yet unidentified jedi's daughter (based on her overwhelming proclivity with the force).

There's also the scene where it seemed like Rey was separated from some group early on. This might be from the Jedi academy, when Ren began his slaughter, and Luke disappeared. Luke might have hidden Rey all along... Who knows, Rey might have been a secret to those at the Jedi academy (due to some secret forbidden Jedi romance)? So many questions...

Totally reminds me of the debate we had of trying to figure out who Luke's father was... Ha!! So cool!

Good points. I never thought of Rey's mechanical ability and flying skill as traits that would be passed on, but it does run in the family. I didn't give much thought to who Luke would have put on the nest, I just assumed that it would be Mara Jade, who also is a force user. That would fit in with Rey's exceptionally strong force ability. Thinking about it a little bit, and assuming that Rey is Luke's child, given that Mara is such a strong presence in the expanded universe, she almost has to be her mother. I can't imagine them abandoning Mara with the huge fanbase among female cosplay Star Wars fans. I could see them using Mara as a catapult to drive fans into a frenzy that Mara makes it into the films.

 

[Leonard]

I was really astounded that blowing up another Deathstar with an X-wing fighter was a major plot point.

And I agree that Rey appears to be Luke's daughter.

 

[Trihonda]

I never thought of Rey's mechanical ability and flying skill as traits that would be passed on, but it does run in the family.

Yup, Anikin and Luke both shared that crazy mechanical connection to the force. Anikin could fix anything, and though they never really focused on it, Luke was in that same situation on Tattooine. They both demonstrated crazy skillz as pilots. Rey exhibited this strange mechanical ability to figure out issues on the fly, while the falcon was tumbling through hyperspace. In a ship she'd never been on before. And she was able to pilot an advanced (albeit aging) modified correllian star freighter into combat with no prior experience. Can you imagine handing the keys of your brand new crotch rocket to your 15 year old daughter and saying, ok, take this and race it next sunday at 200mph. I think that'd be easier than flying the falcon.

 

[Trihonda]

I was really astounded that blowing up another Deathstar with an X-wing fighter was a major plot point.

And I agree that Rey appears to be Luke's daughter.

Flying in on approach (through a trench no less)... I kept expecting to hear "Almost there...", "Stay on Target"...

 

[bergs]

I thought that character Mos, all but said it in the basement storage hallway. She told Rey, that light saber was passed down from Anikin Skywalker, to his son Luke Skywalker, and now to you".. Paraphrasing here, but I got the impression there was little room for doubt, Rey was Luke's daughter. And as I said above, she's too powerful to be anything BUT his daughter (and prob with another strong Jedi betrayed by Ren).

Man, a bunch of Jedi patawons get together in a temple, and they always get slaughtered by some dark side, betrayin bitch! Wish Mace had followed through with Palpatine when he had the chance. Can't hesitate with sh!t like that! When you sit and talk, you always give the opponent time to find a way out... Classic James Bond villainy.

The quote in the ad ended with "...and you have this gift as well", so it didn't specifically call out that it was his daughter.

I could see it being Luke's daughter but who's the mother? I'm thinking that Abrams won't want to go into the same amount of idle backstory that we had in Episodes 1-3, so the simplest way to resolve this is like this:

- Han and Leia had 2 children
- Han and Leia split the children up to protect them because they were strong in the Force (just like Leia and Luke)
- Rey ends up on a desert planet (just like Luke did)
- Ren ends up somewhere TBD in Episode 2 with a quick flashback or that sort of thing - this backstory could be told quickly whereas the Luke/mother backstory would be longer

I'd be interesting in hearing the basement conversation again. If Luke never had children (a la Obi Wan Kenobi), then he would want to pass his lightsaber down to one of his sister's children at some point. Probably not passing it down to Ren given how he turned out, so Rey was the only choice.

Anyway, this seems like the easiest story to tell. We'll see what transpires. I hope Rey isn't Luke's child and the mother thing is left out of it and creates a big historical continuity hole, or, god forbid, she was born from the midichlorians

 

[bergs]

Yup, Anikin and Luke both shared that crazy mechanical connection to the force. Anikin could fix anything, and though they never really focused on it, Luke was in that same situation on Tattooine. They both demonstrated crazy skillz as pilots. Rey exhibited this strange mechanical ability to figure out issues on the fly, while the falcon was tumbling through hyperspace. In a ship she'd never been on before. And she was able to pilot an advanced (albeit aging) modified correllian star freighter into combat with no prior experience. Can you imagine handing the keys of your brand new crotch rocket to your 15 year old daughter and saying, ok, take this and race it next sunday at 200mph. I think that'd be easier than flying the falcon.

Han was pretty handy too and was a more-than-competent pilot. And whether she's Luke's daughter or Leia's, she has some Skywalker in her.

 

[acl1904]

Interesting article on this debate.

https://www.quora.com/Star-Wars-The...Luke-Skywalkers-daughter-in-The-Force-Awakens

 

[Trihonda]

- Han and Leia had 2 children
- Han and Leia split the children up to protect them because they were strong in the Force (just like Leia and Luke)

Loving this debate, no matter how it shakes out. However, I still think that Rey and Leia would have had more of a mother/daughter connection (especially with the force connection brewing).

...and with all the effort her and Han made to "get Ren back", I can't imagine they weren't scouring the galaxy for their long lost daughter as well. And if by chance they had let her go earlier in life, once she came back into the picture, there's zero chance she doesn't get recognized by Leia. I also can't imagine there any need to keep up any secretive pretenses any longer for the kid's safety. She's a freaking Jedi-elect now. Best to let her know, hey, you have a friend in the rebellion (called, your mom).

Also zero percent chance that Leia doesn't know/recognize/feel Rey's awakening. If she were her daughter, she'd recognize it to be true. Search out her feelings and all that jazz. I would think that she would also recognize her as Luke's daughter, and since she's off to Degobah (I mean, to see Luke on a deserted, desolate planet), Leia felt she should let Luke tell her on his own terms...

 

[Ronoh]

I could see it being Luke's daughter but who's the mother?

Could be any number of Jedi groupies, I'm sure Luke would have had no problem getting some serious tail.

And whether she's Luke's daughter or Leia's, she has some Skywalker in her.

Her mom had some Skywalker in her as well. At least once.

 

[Ronoh]

so the simplest way to resolve this is like this:

- Han and Leia had 2 children
- Han and Leia split the children up to protect them because they were strong in the Force (just like Leia and Luke)
- Rey ends up on a desert planet (just like Luke did)

L&L weren't separated due to being strong in the force, they were separated because of who their father was. I can't buy Rey being stuck on a POS planet to fend for herself while Ben stayed home with mom and dad before getting to go to Uncle Luke's Jedi Academy. And as TH said, there is absolutely no way Leia wouldn't have known her daughter when face to face with her IMO... surely she is at least that strong with the force.

 

[bergs]

Loving this debate, no matter how it shakes out. However, I still think that Rey and Leia would have had more of a mother/daughter connection (especially with the force connection brewing).

...and with all the effort her and Han made to "get Ren back", I can't imagine they weren't scouring the galaxy for their long lost daughter as well. And if by chance they had let her go earlier in life, once she came back into the picture, there's zero chance she doesn't get recognized by Leia. I also can't imagine there any need to keep up any secretive pretenses any longer for the kid's safety. She's a freaking Jedi-elect now. Best to let her know, hey, you have a friend in the rebellion (called, your mom).

Also zero percent chance that Leia doesn't know/recognize/feel Rey's awakening. If she were her daughter, she'd recognize it to be true. Search out her feelings and all that jazz. I would think that she would also recognize her as Luke's daughter, and since she's off to Degobah (I mean, to see Luke on a deserted, desolate planet), Leia felt she should let Luke tell her on his own terms...

Leia and Rey had a moment at the end that led me to believe that they were mother/daughter. They wouldn't be scouring the galaxy to get their long lost daughter back if they knew exactly where they left her.

The argument against this, now that I think about it, is the lack of connection between Han and Rey when they met (unless Han went back to space smuggler and wasn't there for the birth).

If I'm wrong, I hope the Luke/Mara thing is correct and they can tie it off quickly or work it seamlessly into the story. It's Abrams so I have hope.

It's very, very rare (maybe a first) that I want to go back and watch a movie in the theater again, but this definitely qualifies. Can't wait to see it again. Probably going Thursday or next week if anyone in my neck of the woods is interested.

 

[bergs]

L&L weren't separated due to being strong in the force, they were separated because of who their father was. I can't buy Rey being stuck on a POS planet to fend for herself while Ben stayed home with mom and dad before getting to go to Uncle Luke's Jedi Academy. And as TH said, there is absolutely no way Leia wouldn't have known her daughter when face to face with her IMO... surely she is at least that strong with the force.

Why would Luke have stuck her on the POS planet then?

(Jokko should be totally renamed to Pos).

 

[Ronoh]

Why would Luke have stuck her on the POS planet then?

Who's to say Luke even knows about her

 

[Ben]

I was really astounded that blowing up another Deathstar with an X-wing fighter was a major plot point.

Hey, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. (I guess) Even 40 years later, blowing up Death Stars is still good cinema!

midichlorians

I'm so glad I don't have a pool anymore, haven't had to buy any of that shit in like, a year.

Her mom had some Skywalker in her as well. At least once.

BA-DUM-TISH!

 

[Trihonda]

L&L weren't separated due to being strong in the force, they were separated because of who their father was. I can't buy Rey being stuck on a POS planet to fend for herself while Ben stayed home with mom and dad before getting to go to Uncle Luke's Jedi Academy. And as TH said, there is absolutely no way Leia wouldn't have known her daughter when face to face with her IMO... surely she is at least that strong with the force.

Ya this ^

And L&L were hidden because they Obi-Wan knew what the emperor would do with them. H&L's kids would have enjoyed some level of comfort knowing that Luke was around, protecting the galaxy, training new jedi's. No need to hide in fear.

Much more plausible IMHO that Luke had a trist with (maybe Jade) someone strong with the force (maybe that woman never told Luke she was expecting?).

Given the similarities in age between Ren and Rey, and the fact Ren hadn't betrayed the Jedi Academy (and Luke) until (assumedly) he was older and strong enough, there would have been no need to hide baby Rey from Ren in some last minute escape from the jedi academy.. Cuz that would have apparently happened when she was old enough to remember a father, mother, etc... Thus, everyone would know about her already.

So I'm leaning towards a secret love affair with Luke that resulted in a baby he didn't know about. Mara Jade sounds like as good a hypothesis as any.

 

[bergs]

Who's to say Luke even knows about her

Are you actually implying the Luke Skywalker, Savior of the Galaxy, pumped and dumped?

(OK, makes sense)

 

[Trihonda]

Leia and Rey had a moment at the end that led me to believe that they were mother/daughter.

I noticed that as well, but took it to be "Hmmm, I'm your aunt, and Luke is gonna be very surprised to see you". If she recognized her as her daughter, no way she's letting her head off into perilous times without a little chat/cry/catching up.

They wouldn't be scouring the galaxy to get their long lost daughter back if they knew exactly where they left her.

Ya, I think the point being is that they wouldn't have left her anywhere...

 

[Ronoh]

Are you actually implying the Luke Skywalker, Savior of the Galaxy, pumped and dumped?

(OK, makes sense)

I really don't have a theory about the circumstances of her being left on that planet, kinda assumed it probably happened when Luke took off to parts unknown. All I do know is that I left the theater feeling like I knew with absolute certainty that Rey is Luke's daughter... to the point where I didn't realize it would be a debated point until I read this thread.

 

[Ben]

I'll actually be somewhat pissed if Rey is in fact Luke's daughter, for the same reason I'll be pissed if R + L actually equals J. It's just TOO FREAKING OBVIOUS.

 

[Ronoh]

there would have been no need to hide baby Rey from Ren in some last minute escape from the jedi academy

I am going to see it a couple more times in the theater I'm sure but on first viewing I was under the impression she was left there when she was 6 or 8 or something, not as a baby.

 

[Ronoh]

Actually there is one thing I am certain of... that I was relieved upon finding out after watching the film that the girl playing Rey is in fact 23 years old.

Cause I was feeling a bit pervey during my viewing.

 

[Trihonda]

Actually there is one thing I am certain of... that I was relieved upon finding out after watching the film that the girl playing Rey is in fact 23 years old.

Cause I was feeling a bit pervey during my viewing.

Ya, she's smoking hot!

Hope she ages better than Leia, ha!

 

[Ronoh]

Hope she ages better than Leia, ha!

Two things that really bothered me about the movie... first was Leia's voice. Good God, I was cringing every time she opened her mouth.

Second was... well, let's just say Ren should have never taken his helmet off. I found him exactly zero percent menacing for the rest of the film once he took it off for the first time. For the rest of the movie whenever he appeared, with or without his mask, I could only see this guy:

(warning, this may ruin any future viewings of the movie for you if you open it...)

Spoiler

 

[Meddler2]

Makes no sense that Rey is Hans/Leia.
Unless she was wisked away in complete secrecy and neither Leia or Han was in on it....Rey told Han where she was from and that she needed to return...Wouldn't that have triggered an "oh yeah I forgot we dumped you on a dessert planet" moment for Hans?