***SPOILERS*** Star Wars the Force Awakens Open Discusion Thread ***SPOILERS*** (1 Viewer)

[bergs]

Two things that really bothered me about the movie... first was Leia's voice. Good God, I was cringing every time she opened her mouth.

Second was... well, let's just say Ren should have never taken his helmet off. I found him exactly zero percent menacing for the rest of the film once he took it off for the first time. For the rest of the movie whenever he appeared, with or without his mask, I could only see this guy:

(warning, this may ruin any future viewings of the movie for you if you open it...)

Spoiler

View attachment 26405

Yeah, this was the only note of discord in the entire flick. He took off his helmet and I was like, oh, Sam Bradford is the most feared man in the galaxy. Wait a while, somebody will snap his ACL and Tony Siragusa will pop up in the theater and announce that Ren is doubtful to return for episodes 8 and 9.

 

[bergs]

Makes no sense that Rey is Hans/Leia.
Unless she was wisked away in complete secrecy and neither Leia or Han was in on it....Rey told Han where she was from and that she needed to return...Wouldn't that have triggered an "oh yeah I forgot we dumped you on a dessert planet" moment for Hans?

Well, it's a big galaxy, running the rebel alliance is a lot to manage, and whisking goods past imperial ships is a lot of work. I left my keys in the fridge once before a busy workday, is it that outrageous that they could've misplaced their daughter on a sandy desolate outer rim planet?

 

[bergs]

While I'm thinking of it, loved Han's affection for Chewie's bowcaster. "Hey, can I try this?"

 

[courage]

While I'm thinking of it, loved Han's affection for Chewie's bowcaster. "Hey, can I try this?"

Oh sure, another gun control thread.

 

[snooptodd]

The most disappointing part of the movie for me was that the line from the trailer - "The force is calling to you ... just let it in" wasn't in the movie. That was the most powerful ending to a trailer I can remember, and since I saw the trailer about 347 times, I was waiting to see when it would come.

 

[inca911]

Who's voice was it (in the trailer but not in the movie)? I wanted the Admiral Ackbar - like guy to say anything with the word "trap" in it!

 

[jbutler]

Just now have time to think about some of the things in this thread. Like @Ronoh I came out of the film not even questioning whether we were intended to believe Rey was Luke's daughter. I don't see how anyone could get anything else out of it.

I'm not saying there's some airtight case that that's what they actually will do, but if they go another way I will see it as a pretty ridiculous dodge by JJ/Kasdan/etc. What are we to believe, that Han/Leia had a daughter and didn't know or that they gave up their daughter and it didn't occur to them that this chick who would be the same age and starts wilding out with the force might be their little girl? I don't think it's a plausible plot point and unless they handle it in some way I can't foresee, it will be weak. Although one really cool alternative would be if she were somehow Obi-Wan's granddaughter.

I actually think the questions that arise from the film that seem to be frustrating loose ends for other people - What's the deal with Snoke? What's the nature of the relationship between the Resistance and the Republic? Why was Rey left on Jakku? - are strengths in my eyes. I wouldn't want them to pack crazy amounts of exposition on those subjects into this movie and it would be weaker for it if they did. The movie is already on the cusp of being too long.

And remember that we didn't know shit about Luke/Leia/Vader's relationship in A New Hope. That stuff didn't come out until Empire, so why would we expect it to be so different here? The one thing I could say is that the end of A New Hope wasn't a cliffhanger in the way The Force Awakens was, but that's more about the fact that the original film wasn't assured a sequel. I would bet my life that if George Lucas had known he had at least two more movies in the pipeline, there'd have been some kind of serious tension at the end of A New Hope to be resolved in Empire.

As for Adam Driver as Kylo Ren, I was also underwhelmed when he took off the mask, but after a bit, I thought he/they made it work. Adam Driver, of whom I am not ordinarily a fan, is a peculiar actor with a peculiar style. I have to think they purposefully cast an awkward actor in this role to portray something about the character. Perhaps they want to get across that he is physically slight and by nature ineffectual (or perhaps is made this way due to his internal conflict) and has turned to the dark side in order to counteract what he sees as his weakness. I would expect his motivations will be more fleshed out in the next movie (or next two) and I wouldn't be surprised if this played some part.

But I knew about Adam Driver's role in advance, so it wasn't any kind of shock. Just like I think everyone on the planet predicted Han would die and so that scene didn't have anywhere near the weight it would have had if we had been caught unaware.

 

[snooptodd]

Who's voice was it (in the trailer but not in the movie)? I wanted the Admiral Ackbar - like guy to say anything with the word "trap" in it!

I thought it was Leia when I watched the trailer initially, but I'm pretty sure it's Maz Kanata (the short orange lady with the goggles).

 

[Ronoh]

Just like I think everyone on the planet predicted Han would die and so that scene didn't have anywhere near the weight it would have had if we had been caught unaware.

I had no idea, when I went to watch it I had no clue Han was going to die until he walked out onto the bridge. Pretty obvious then.

Of course when it comes to anything to do with "big" movies I avoid nearly everything about it.

 

[jbutler]

I had no idea, when I went to watch it I had no clue Han was going to die until he walked out onto the bridge. Pretty obvious then.

Of course when it comes to anything to do with "big" movies I avoid nearly everything about it.

I do too to the best of my ability. The issue wish Star Wars is that I have been thinking about how the story would progress pretty much since I was a conscious human. And I've always heard Harrison Ford say that he wishes he'd been killed off in the original films. So when I learned he'd signed on for this, I was pretty certain he was a goner. I'd bet it was literally in his contract.

That's not to say it's an inappropriate plot point or bad for the films. I think it's best to rid the plot of much of the original cast, so I'm completely on board with it. I heard someone else complain that the movie is too reliant on "twists" and I couldn't have disagreed more, but maybe that's because I'd thought so much about it beforehand that most anything they could do within reason had gone through my head at some point.

 

[bivey]

I was really astounded that blowing up another Deathstar with an X-wing fighter was a major plot point.

And I agree that Rey appears to be Luke's daughter.

Successful Hollywood = follow the fucking formula and make money. Being original is risky.

 

[courage]

Just now have time to think about some of the things in this thread. Like @Ronoh I came out of the film not even questioning whether we were intended to believe Rey was Luke's daughter. I don't see how anyone could get anything else out of it.

Zactly. When Rey is in basement hallway after touching the lightsaber and having the visions she's freaking out and Maz tells her essentially what's going on. "Look inside yourself, you know the answer. Those you've been waiting for are not coming back. But there is one who may." (Paraphrased). And Rey says "Luke" under her breath.

 

[QuiQuog]

Zactly. When Rey is in basement hallway after touching the lightsaber and having the visions she's freaking out and Maz tells her essentially what's going on. "Look inside yourself, you know the answer. Those you've been waiting for are not coming back. But there is one who may." (Paraphrased). And Rey says "Luke" under her breath.

If we're to believe that Maz is all knowing and the ones that she's waiting for are her parents, and they're not coming back but Luke might, it's implied that Luke isn't her father.

 

[bergs]

If we're to believe that Maz is all knowing and the ones that she's waiting for are her parents, and they're not coming back but Luke might, it's implied that Luke isn't her father.

We're probably all wrong and she was conceived from the stupid fucking midichlorians again.

No, seriously, I think it's likely her parents were someone else now that I read through all of this again. Abrams will have to fill this in quickly in the next episode.

 

[QuiQuog]

There was a link earlier that had some good points either way for who is Rey's parents. This is a long read, but it's my favorite among the different theories. It ties together things nicely and is very plausible. It also would allow for Han/Leia twins from the expanded universe, setting them up to be the saviors in episode IX.

*****
Rey is Leia and Han's daughter. They think she is dead. That is why they don't refer to her in the movie! Rey's developed abilities with the force can be explained by dormant Jedi training she received under Luke, who also thinks she is dead. Events in TFA, particularly beginning with her contact with Luke's Lightsaber serve to reawaken the force in her. She implicitly knows how to fly the millennium falcon because she was in it as a kid.


She lives because her older brother 'ben/kylo' saved her during the massacre of the Jedi training temple, and burned bodies to make it appear she was dead. Her flashbacks are consistent with this. He tells the other knights of Ren; 'go, leave the girl to me' before saving her and hiding her on jakku. He manipulated her mind using the force to seal her memories and her knowledge of the force. He was turning to the dark side but couldn't bare to kill her, so instead left her on the planet of Jakku with someone loyal to the first order. He has kept this secret from everyone including the emperor, and it is part of his struggle with the light and the dark.


Kylo during the his light saber battle with leia offers to train her hoping to turn her alliance with him and the dark side which he believes to be the right side. He continues to pretend to everyone particularly the girl that she is unknown to him to protect her and his past actions and secret. Han and Leia felt drawn to her, but believing their daughter to be dead and blinded by loss and misery, meant they couldn't contemplate it to be her.


Luke went into isolation not only because he failed to protect the younglings in the temple, and from kylo turning to the darkside, but most personal to him was that he couldn't bare to face leia and han after their daughter was massacred under his care, or so he believed.


After Kylo kills Han in TFA, the audience is left to feel that Kylo has no redeemable qualities and his struggle is of no pity to them. However, that all will change when it's revealed that he saved Rey from certain death and has been hiding this secret all along.


It will lead to a big reveal, similar to the Luke/Vader 'I am your father' reveal, whereby Kylo will tell 'Rey', 'I am your brother'.


Max Von's character retrieved the map on Jakku after information about a computer identifiable to Luke skywalker became known to the resistance. He was not somehow there on Luke's orders. That is also how the first order became aware of this information. The map was on Jakku because Rey was carrying it at the time she was left there and it fell out of her possession. Either lost by her on jakku and eventually retrieved by someone else, or sold on jakku by her carers. She had it because she had been researching with her Grandfather 'Luke' the whereabouts of the first Jedi temple, which Luke eventually retreated to. Her knowledge of this possession was suppressed as part of Kylo's mind manipulation using the force. Kylo was not aware she was carrying it at the time.


R2D2 reawakened because he sensed the missing piece of the map on the computer that carried it, not necessarily the person who carried it. He is a computer afterall. If he sensed Rey, would he not have told Leia?


TFA has provided enough misdirection without disputing the above, and has helped set up this reveal as a major plot twist later in the saga.


JJ abrams has shown in TFA that he is well versed in recycling old plot points from the original trilogy and has spun the idea with Lawrence Kasdan, very loosely based on a EU story of the Solo having twins. It preserves what George Lucas has always said Star Wars to be which was a family drama about the skywalkers, and makes for the most interesting of character developments for Kylo Ren giving him somewhat redeemable qualities in the eyes of the audience.
*****
One point that may be an issue with this theory is how Kylo managed to defeat Rey, who is undeniably stronger in the force, when she was aware of her abilities if he couldn't defeat her after years more training and experience when she wasn't even aware of her own abilities, ala Jason Bourne. But there's always a way to explain something like that with freak luck.

 

[courage]

If we're to believe that Han and Leia are so out of tune with the force that knowledge of their daughter being dead would overpower any touch or proximity to her. If we are to believe that Kylo is somehow compassionate to his sister whilst killing his father. If we are to believe that she had a prehistory with Luke and others but fails to mention it while TFA unfolds. Yeah, I could see it.

 

[Mr Tree]

A couple of points to consider. Rey just happens to live next to a lot where the Millenium Falcon is junked after it was stolen. That's a hell of a coincidence. Also the only person with the final piece of the map to Luke is just up the road. Someone was very intentionally shelving shit on Jakku. The real question is who and why?

 

[gpc]

Loved the movie but feel it is more of a reboot than a sequel. I would be disappointed if Rey is H&L daughter. I always thought that Darth Vader not realizing PL was his daughter until Jedi was a huge plot mistake and it would be similar now.

 

[bergs]

If we're to believe that Han and Leia are so out of tune with the force that knowledge of their daughter being dead would overpower any touch or proximity to her. If we are to believe that Kylo is somehow compassionate to his sister whilst killing his father. If we are to believe that she had a prehistory with Luke and others but fails to mention it while TFA unfolds. Yeah, I could see it.

Actually Han never believed in the Force (not until the last movie) and never practiced it (at least in the movies).

Leia has a weird moment with Rey towards the end of the movie.

 

[Trihonda]

Rewatching 4, 5, and 6 over the next two days with my entire family (including my wife, who's never seen SW ever). So, I'm considering this a huge victory in my family.

We're all going to the moving Christmas Eve (5pm). Then home for Santa.

Can't wait for my kids to see this movie in the theater. Neither of them have seen any of the movies in a theater (not that the prequels are worthy of mention anyway).

Four tickets to Star Wars VII on a DLX Ultrascreen = $42
Large Popcorn and Four Drinks = $26
Battery operated Lightsaber Toy = $15
Watching my kids' smiles while experiencing their first SW movie in the theater = Priceless

*(insert "for everything else, there's MasterCard") Ha!

 

[QuiQuog]

Ya, she's smoking hot!

Hope she ages better than Leia, ha!

I wouldn't say she aged bad, she is 59 after all. I think what jacked up her face is all the surgery. They don't all age like Christy Brinkley.

 

[acl1904]

Rey just happens to live next to a lot where the Millenium Falcon is junked after it was stolen. That's a hell of a coincidence

Possible whomever saved Rey stole the millennium falcon to get her to that planet?

 

[Trihonda]

Possible whomever saved Rey stole the millennium falcon to get her to that planet?

Interesting point... Sounds like the Falcon was stolen several times before ending up where Rey found it. Also, it sounds like a lot of plot twists with Rey's history, and a secret map to Luke?

Weird, so ten tears ago, Luke disappears, but knows where he's planning to be for many years until he's found. And he leaves a map to his location? Apparently WITH the guy who helped facilitate Rey's abandonment, or maybe he also factored into the theft of the falcon?

 

[jbutler]

Actually there is one thing I am certain of... that I was relieved upon finding out after watching the film that the girl playing Rey is in fact 23 years old.

Cause I was feeling a bit pervey during my viewing.

Probably could go in Derail/WTF, but more people will get a kick out of it here imo. Mark Hamill includes sweet notes when he's asked to autograph stuff.

 

[inca911]

Disclosure: I owned a complate set of those trading cards and stickers from all 3 original movies. Sold them for decent money when the prequels came out.
Back to thread: I think whoever left Rey on Jakku hoped that the start absence of life would inhibit her connection to the Force. The "awakening" just happened to coincide with her coming to a planet described as "I didn't know there was that much green in the universe." It's not quite Dagobah, but close enough. As far as coincidences, the suspension of disbelief is a requirement for all movies. There simply isn't a movie without coincidences.

 

[Trihonda]

Actually there is one thing I am certain of... that I was relieved upon finding out after watching the film that the girl playing Rey is in fact 23 years old.

Cause I was feeling a bit pervey during my viewing.

Ya, doing a basic search on her name, brings up some pretty "unsafe for work" pics fairly quickly... Fair warning.

I like this one, and the comparison of the image of Carrie Fischer back in the day...

 

[bergs]

https://twitter.com/kylor3n

 

[stocky]

Possible answer to Rey's father?

http://comicbook.com/2015/12/24/reys-identity-possibly-revealed-in-star-wars-the-force-awakens-d/

 

[Anthony Martino]

Giving this a solid C, fuck you JJ Abrams! I didn't like what he did with the Star Trek films either.


PROS

Visually spectacular
Plenty of paying homage to the originals moments
Most of the primary actors were believable
Some very funny moments
BB8 was a welcome addition to the franchise

CONS

1. Too Much Paying Homage To The Originals

This film relied way too much on looking back at, or outright recreating, moments from the original films in an effort to appeal to those of us who are huge fans of the franchise, and perhaps because it worked then so they figure it must still work. The problem with this is it keeps the film from having its own amazing stand-out moments, from having its own personality and from allowing the "new class" to stand out since there is too much of the old cast taking up time on the screen.

We get another super weapon that has a weakness that must be exploited against insurmountable odds

A poor mans version of the Cantina

Another villain being pulled between darkness and light

Another force-wielding villain at odds with the military leadership who act all snarky with him

Another fish-faced Admiral Ackbar look-a-like had to be thrown in, but they don't even have him say "it's a trap!"

etc.

2. Kylo Ren

Talk about a seriously underwhelming villain. He looks nothing like the child of Han and Leia, and certainly doesn't inspire fear with his voice or appearance once the mask comes off. He reminds me too much of Hayden Christensen who I couldn't stand.

I mean, are we supposed to believe that this temper-tantrum throwing man-child has been given a position of authority in The New Order when even the slightest thing not going his way sends him into a fury where he smashes starship or spacestation controls with his lightsaber???

I mean, the dude stops a blaster bolt in midair AND holds it there AND takes a crossbow blaster shot to the side abdomen area but struggles fighting a former sanitation stormtrooper and then a girl who just became aware she has force powers?

3. Major Plot Points Sped Up Too Quickly

Finn quickly decides he wants to escape the New Order with little backstory to connect us with his character. He goes from being a sanitation worker to a guy who can fight with lightsabers and take down experienced tie fighter pilots when he's in the gunner seat

Rey, an abandoned girl who's been a scavenger all her life suddenly is an expert shot with blasters, can fight an experienced Sith in a lightsaber duel and win, can fix and fly spaceships AND develops her force powers in like three seconds and starts using them like they're second nature.

The Resistance learns of the super weapons location and weakness in half a second and mounts an attack just in the nick of time, stopping the firing of it with just a few seconds to spare, yeeee-haaawww!

4. Han's Death So Predictable

So painfully obvious this was going to happen once he confronted his son. And then wtf with the switch to Leia where she suddenly looks all sad and forlorn, how the fuck does she magically know Han just got run through?

5. The New Order, The Resistance, The Republic

The whole mixture here is a jumbled mess. Does (or did, I guess) The Republic pretty much run things? How did the New Order fit into the running of the galaxy? Why was there a Resistance if the Republic was running things?

6. Lame General of The New Order

Another fails-to-inspire fear or confidence character for The New Order, the general that was constantly squabbling with Kylo Ren left much to be desired and also came across as a temper-tantrum throwing man-child.


7. The Score

There was at least one throwback to music from the originals, but there wasn't really anything that stood out to me in the score that was memorable like the originals.

Overall I was left thoroughly underwhelmed and JJ Abrams continues to sink lower in my opinion. I'm just glad I didn't stand in line for hours and only spent 6 bucks on a matinee viewing of this.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Well I just saw it last night and thought it was the bees knees. Different strokes for different folks I guess.