Tourney Surrendering chips during a Bounty Tournament... (5 Viewers)

[ekricket]

I'm not a fan of bounties, but I have seen plenty of tournaments that have bounties, including WSOP events.

Sure, that’s not what I’m referring to. Being able to cash out your bounty yourself and go home because you aren’t happy with how the tournament is going is not part of the World Series events unless I’ve missed something. Are you saying you can do this at the WSOP?

 

[ekricket]

Yes, it was after the rebuy period so no rebuy could have been done.

I already implemented a Best Hand bonus during the first 4 levels, which is 5% of the prize pool.

I hear about people disagreeing with the fact that someone can surrender and cash out the Bounty, but isn't the point of surrendering to keep the Bounty when rebuying?

Like in my example, the player had 0.7 blinds, should going all in the thing to do? I mean it's a ridiculously easy Bounty, I'm not talking about 5 or 10 blinds which can still represent something.

No bounty chip issued with rebuys? It kinda limits the amount of bounties won doesn't it?

So when do people lose their Bounty, after the rebuy period is over?

You are either a troll or you need to quit hosting and go to some games that are run by people that know what they are doing.

You are obviously being obtuse strictly to promote stupid conversation.

Quit trolling.

 

[Budha]

I don’t agree with most of what you wrote, but that’s mostly personal preference. But this one seems legitimately strange to me. If you want to create more action with bounties, why aren’t you selling bounty chips with rebuys? That would create more action, wouldn’t it?

Good question. The sole intent was not just to build the pot. It was to add some additional elements to the monthly tourney that had quite frankly gotten a bit stale (boring).

The intent was to add some fun elements while still promoting good play.

In all honesty, I’ve never played in a tourney where they issued more then a single bounty or you could surrender your stack to rebuy.

Maybe I need to get out more - lol.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Huh? Got back up? I’m not sure what you mean.

Knock out = got their last chip. If they can rebuy, they keep the seat they were in and get a new stack. They continue play as if they were never knocked out.
Eliminated = out of the tournament and you collect the bounty

Again, I'm not opposed to games paying every knockout, but since we also allow a surrender (like the OP, but the surrender can only be attached to a rebuy) I was zeroing in on how he could fix his rule, without changing the game (much).

 

[Poker Zombie]

Sure, that’s not what I’m referring to. Being able to cash out your bounty yourself and go home because you aren’t happy with how the tournament is going is not part of the World Series events unless I’ve missed something. Are you saying you can do this at the WSOP?

Go it - I thought you were opposed to surrender your stack (which is a WSOP rule, if you rebuy), or Bounties (which is also a specific NLHE game in the WSOP).

Surrender to get extra equity out of a short stack is a bad idea.

 

[ekricket]

Knock out = got their last chip. If they can rebuy, they keep the seat they were in and get a new stack. They continue play as if they were never knocked out.
Eliminated = out of the tournament and you collect the bounty

Again, I'm not opposed to games paying every knockout, but since we also allow a surrender (like the OP, but the surrender can only be attached to a rebuy) I was zeroing in on how he could fix his rule, without changing the game (much).

He has no interest in changing his game.

First thing he should do is cut out the bells and whistles until after he understands what they are and how they work. He wants to keep his game and rules as is, he’s just asking us how he can keep his players from taking advantage of it, but kept it all as

Go it - I thought you were opposed to surrender your stack (which is a WSOP rule, if you rebuy), or Bounties (which is also a specific NLHE game in the WSOP).

Surrender to get extra equity out of a short stack is a bad idea.

you can QUIT anytime you like, but then you get blinded out and the bounty gets awarded to the player who took your last chip.

I suggested dropping the bounty in this case because there doesn’t seem to be any comprehension of how it works. Just trying to make his poker groups life better. They are better off without a “bonus” that confuses them and confuses the host as well.

They would be better off taping numbers from 1-10 under their chairs - a different number under each chair, starting with 1 for one chair, 2 for the next chair, etc…( let me know if you need me to continue this example) and then drawing a number from a hat and the person in the chair with the same number wins the “bonus”. The “bonus chair number” is not the same as the seating number…. Oh shit never mind it’s already too confusing.
He’s going to ask if they redraw chairs every orbit or some other stupid troll shit.

 

[TudiscoKid]

You are either a troll or you need to quit hosting and go to some games that are run by people that know what they are doing.

You are obviously being obtuse strictly to promote stupid conversation.

Quit trolling.

I'm genuinely asking a question to the community, I've been hosting for only a year now.

You're absolutely bitter for no reason, now gtfo you're pissing me off.

 

[Poker Zombie]

I suggested dropping the bounty in this case because there doesn’t seem to be any comprehension of how it works. Just trying to make his poker groups life better. They are better off without a “bonus” that confuses them and confuses the host as well.

I have found, especially with newer players, that having some luck-centric bonuses will help with player retention. As such, I have kept some whimsical bonuses and some typical bonuses (the bonus changes each night). I support a new group doing something to make more payers "winners". A $20 bonus in a $30 buy-in game still counts as a "win", in the same way someone boasts about winning $100 on a scratcher, even though they spent $300 on tickets.

Fish games do not need to be run the same way as a expert game. As long as the rules do not alter play much, and the rules are unexploitable.

 

[w00zie]

A player surrendered after the end of the first break, which means that no more buy-ins were possible, cashed in the Bounty, and left.
Do you think this is a good rule? Should it work otherwise? Wanna hear your thoughts on this!

Ok, one more try. This is the question you asked. The answer you got is: This rule is not good. It must not be possible to leave a tournament and get the cash for your bounty back. Period.
If you have to or want to leave the tournament your stack, bounty and money stays. You got different ideas on how to manage that in this thread. But a player cannot leave and get the money for his bounty back.

 

[TudiscoKid]

Ok, one more try. This is the question you asked. The answer you got is: This rule is not good. It must not be possible to leave a tournament and get the cash for your bounty back. Period.
If you have to or want to leave the tournament your stack, bounty and money stays. You got different ideas on how to manage that in this thread. But a player cannot leave and get the money for his bounty back.

I'm taking feedback from each comment here, thanks to all who contributed, I will change my rules according to what I've read.
Interesting how everyone has different takes on how bounties work (I'm referring to the other rules expressed here)

 

[Poker Zombie]

I'm genuinely asking a question to the community, I've been hosting for only a year now.

You're absolutely bitter for no reason, now gtfo you're pissing me off.

You can simply click his name, and click "ignore". ekricket has hit my ignore list before, but in real life he is a good guy, so I have unblocked him. Then I have to keep remembering that when I see him on one of these tangents.

 

[JustinInMN]

There’s one bounty per player issued. You don’t get bounty chip with rebuys.

As soon as they loose their stack. Regardless.

Oh wait, I think I misunderstood. Tell me if this makes sense.

You only give out the bounty on the FIRST stack a player gets on the evening, and never on any rebuy stacks, is this correct?

(If so, my comment in #49 is incorrect. That was based on the assumption the bounty is only collected when a player busts out for the last time, not the first time.)

 

[JustinInMN]

In all honesty, I’ve never played in a tourney where they issued more then a single bounty or you could surrender your stack to rebuy.

Maybe I need to get out more - lol.

Once casinos started to embrace all re-entry all the time, getting a new bounty chip with every entry became standard. Standard in the home games around here as well.

That said, next time I go play a bounty tournament, I am going to ask the surrender question.

 

[ekricket]

You can simply click his name, and click "ignore". ekricket has hit my ignore list before, but in real life he is a good guy, so I have unblocked him. Then I have to keep remembering that when I see him on one of these tangents.

I’m ok being blocked. It makes my life easier anyway.
This whole thing is stupid though, because I don’t think he can find a rule or guide book that describes a bounty tournament like he plays.
I just think he is just too lazy to look things up and get them right before he starts hosting.

 

[TudiscoKid]

I’m ok being blocked. It makes my life easier anyway.
This whole thing is stupid though, because I don’t think he can find a rule or guide book that describes a bounty tournament like he plays.
I just think he is just too lazy to look things up and get them right before he starts hosting.

Hence why I'm asking the community here, why are you so set on me being a troll or ignoring each message and saying I'm using the one and only rule possible?
Plus, I've spent countless hours looking for rules/how to build a balanced structure/tips and redacting rules for my Poker Club, so no, I am not lazy.

You're the one acting ever so stupid here.

 

[Budha]

Oh wait, I think I misunderstood. Tell me if this makes sense.

You only give out the bounty on the FIRST stack a player gets on the evening, and never on any rebuy stacks, is this correct?

(If so, my comment in #49 is incorrect. That was based on the assumption the bounty is only collected when a player busts out for the last time, not the first time.)

Yes - that’s correct. The bounty chip is given with first stack/initial buy in (and not with subsequent rebuys). And the bounty is collected the first time the player bust out.

 

[BGinGA]

We run bounty tournaments both ways (along with a few other ways not yet discussed here):

#1. A single bounty chip is issued to each player, and is forfeited when the player is eliminated from the tournament. If it is a re-buy tournament, the player retains his bounty chip after being felted provided they re-buy a new stack -- because they have not yet been eliminated from the tournament. In this version, being felted does not necessarily mean being eliminated (unless opting to not re-buy). In this version, the bounty is attached to the player.

#2. A single bounty chip is issued with each stack (whether initial stack or re-buy stack), and is forfeited when that stack is felted/gone. A (new) re-buy stack comes with a new bounty chip. In this version, the bounty is attached to the stack/chips.

Either approach is fine. If using a stack-surrender option for re-buys, #1 typically works better (but either can work).

 

[glynn]

You're the one acting ever so stupid here.

Oh absolutely dude, that's probably why people in this thread have started opening their responses to you with some variation of "let's try this again" lol.

 

[GreekRedEye]

I’m ok being blocked. It makes my life easier anyway.
This whole thing is stupid though, because I don’t think he can find a rule or guide book that describes a bounty tournament like he plays.
I just think he is just too lazy to look things up and get them right before he starts hosting.

@ekricket You do not have to respond to this thread if it tilts you so much. Some of us are still learning and unnecessary insults make it harder to find the helpful comments.

I like @BGinGA 's proposed solution best: just add the bounty to the prize pool and move on. The quitter does not benefit. You don't have to bother blinding off their stack. And since no one knocked the quitter out, it seems more equitable to me to split the bounty amongst the pool winners rather than find some artificial way to give it to someone.

Also, I have had someone get unexpectedly called into work and had to go. A player could get a call from their spouse that the kid is sick. There are legitimate cases when someone might need to surrender their stack, not re-buy, and leave. I agree it makes no sense, though, for them to cash out the bounty.

 

[TudiscoKid]

Thanks to the comments here I have changed that rule, and the surrender option only works before the end of the rebuy period, and the Bounty cannot be cashed out.
If a player wants to surrender their chips and rebuy, they don't need to pay for the bounty, just the buy-in.

 

[upNdown]

I like @BGinGA 's proposed solution best: just add the bounty to the prize pool and move on. The quitter does not benefit.

This is a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist though, right? The only reason the quitter quit was because in that bizzaro world tournament, he was allowed to quit and keep his bounty. Once you make a rule saying nobody can quit and keep their bounty, there won’t be any more quitters.

 

[GreekRedEye]

This is a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist though, right? The only reason the quitter quit was because in that bizzaro world tournament, he was allowed to quit and keep his bounty. Once you make a rule saying nobody can quit and keep their bounty, there won’t be any more quitters.

I tried to anticipate that point by mentioning there are legitimate cases when someone needs to drop out of a tournament.

 

[TheOffalo]

This is a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist though, right? The only reason the quitter quit was because in that bizzaro world tournament, he was allowed to quit and keep his bounty. Once you make a rule saying nobody can quit and keep their bounty, there won’t be any more quitters.

People who are short-stacked but somehow won't have the opportunity to bust out (or even if they double/triple-up they're still at a severe disadvantage) may choose to surrender before the late-reg/re-entries period is over in order to buy in again for a full starting stack.

 

[ekricket]

People who are short-stacked but somehow won't have the opportunity to bust out (or even if they double/triple-up they're still at a severe disadvantage) may choose to surrender before the late-reg/re-entries period is over in order to buy in again for a full starting stack.

People will never get better at poker when they have safety nets. And since they don’t get better, and they lose and rebuy and lose, they conclude that tournament poker sucks. Because they are enabled.

 

[JustinInMN]

#1. A single bounty chip is issued to each player, and is forfeited when the player is eliminated from the tournament. If it is a re-buy tournament, the player retains his bounty chip after being felted provided they re-buy a new stack -- because they have not yet been eliminated from the tournament. In this version, being felted does not necessarily mean being eliminated (unless opting to not re-buy). In this version, the bounty is attached to the player.

#2. A single bounty chip is issued with each stack (whether initial stack or re-buy stack), and is forfeited when that stack is felted/gone. A (new) re-buy stack comes with a new bounty chip. In this version, the bounty is attached to the stack/chips.

I actually actively dislike #1 because being awarded the bounty completely depends on a decision by a player that lost all his chips. Seems like this opens up a lot of avenues for unfairness and personal bias.

I think #2 is far more common, the only controversy is what to do with surrendered bounties, but a lot of good ideas in this thread about that, of course.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

I actually actively dislike #1 because being awarded the bounty completely depends on a decision by a player that lost all his chips. Seems like this opens up a lot of avenues for unfairness and personal bias.

I think #2 is far more common, the only controversy is what to do with surrendered bounties, but a lot of good ideas in this thread about that, of course.

Interesting take; so usually an all-in bet means I can factor in their bounty. Now I have to judge whether or not this player is confident/comfortable enough to rebuy. Hadn't thought about that option and what it means for calls.

 

[BGinGA]

Strategy is also somewhat different for both events. Having the bounty tied to stacks (#2) actually encourages aggressive all-in/call behavior during the re-buy period.

Some of our events use dual bounty chips, one of each type (and worth different amounts). I actually prefer that over either of the two 'standard' versions I listed.

 

[BEANO52]

The whole thread brings some interesting points out.

Our regular Friday tourney ($40-$55 buyin $5 bounty) the bounty is "optional". Surrender is allowed and your bounty is moved to your new stack prior to end of rebuy period.

The whole surrender and go home/keep your bounty is ridiculous. Your basically freerolling the bounty if going this route.

Imagine the following scenario: Player A busts 3 people & collects 3 bounties, gets very short stacked just before surrender/rebuys. Surrenders without rebuying and expects to collect their own bounty ?? Nah.

 

[TudiscoKid]

The whole thread brings some interesting points out.

Our regular Friday tourney ($40-$55 buyin $5 bounty) the bounty is "optional". Surrender is allowed and your bounty is moved to your new stack prior to end of rebuy period.

The whole surrender and go home/keep your bounty is ridiculous. Your basically freerolling the bounty if going this route.

Imagine the following scenario: Player A busts 3 people & collects 3 bounties, gets very short stacked just before surrender/rebuys. Surrenders without rebuying and expects to collect their own bounty ?? Nah.

Yep, I've already changed this rule.

Now, I'm interested to know how the Bounty can be optional in your games, can you elaborate?

 

[KHarp1]

Its just that, simply, it's optional. If you knock someone out that has a bounty chip then you collect their bounty, on the other hand, is someone chose not to buy a bounty then you collect only the pot and no bounty. Non bounty players don't collect bounties, at least in the games I've played.