Tourney Tournament set with non denomination chips (2 Viewers)

[AK Chip]

To clarify my position on this thread I'm not deciding which is better. I'm weighing if the issues of having a non-denominated set are enough to stop me from making a set I really have interest in. Two things have made me decide not to make the set. The real issue with people that are color blind and the fact I switch sets on a regular basis.

 

[philhut]

Just re-read this post, looking at the denoms selected. 10, 20, 50, 100, 500.

As a basic rule, never take poker advice from a website where the author has obviously never played poker.

Note: I know this wasn't yours, you were just looking for an example. However I think it proves that the whole concept of undenominated chips is supported by someone that has no real-world experience..

that is why in the comments I gave this as an example of equating a chip to a number...the number itself can be chosen by the players. Its better than nothing as a reference, I did something similar a few times but then switched to denominated chips. Partly because that is what the new chips were but also because it was easier than having to explain anything.

 

[BGinGA]

To clarify my position on this thread I'm not deciding which is better. I'm weighing if the issues of having a non-denominated set are enough to stop me from making a set I really have interest in. Two things have made me decide not to make the set. The real issue with people that are color blind and the fact I switch sets on a regular basis.

If wanting the aesthetics of a simple no-denom hot-stamped style, you can always stamp the denomination on the reverse side to help minimize the downsides of the approach.

The Hitching Post tourney solids stamped with the HP brand and denom pull this off nicely.

 

[RiverKingCali]

Did it for years back in my college days with our group of friends. Wished someone back then had slapped some sense into me, the host.

 

[AK Chip]

If wanting the aesthetics of a simple no-denom hot-stamped style, you can always stamp the denomination on the reverse side to help minimize the downsides of the approach.

The Hitching Post tourney solids stamped with the HP brand and denom pull this off nicely.

I have a set in the works doing this!

 

[AK Chip]

This is the set that got me started down this path.

 

[Taghkanic]

I have not just one but *two* colorblind regs in the game I inherited. When I upgraded to Paulson solids (from the cheap injection molds the previous hosts used), I worked with them to choose shades they could recognize. I’ve posted many times on that topic.

Neither needs or has ever asked for denoms, and both are among the better players.

 

[Taghkanic]

I'm curious to hear exactly what you mean by this.

I mean that if past the first few hands a player is still sweating over questions like “wait, what are the purple chips worth again?” — rather than pondering strategic, tactical, probability, psychological or other issues — that is going to be a problem for succeeding at poker.

Say I’m playing in a tournament, and we’re a few levels in. I know the blinds are 200/400. The small blind has two black chips in, and the big blind has one purple. There’s also 9 green chips in front of the dealer.

Preflop, a player in the cutoff position says, “raise,” and slides in three purples and a black.

I’m the button. Do I look down, panic, and think, oh my god, help, time out—let me now read all the printed denominations on the green, black and purple chips to figure out what the heck’s going on?

No. The poker player’s brain knows that the greens are 25s, the blacks are 100s and the purples are 500s. It sees the 9 greens and recognizes them as the antes; the two black 100s are the small blind, the big blind put in 500 (and gets back 100 change if he folds to the raise), and the raiser made it 4x, or 1600. There’s 2200 total in the pot plus the 225 in antes before I act.

How does the brain know this at a glance? Because it noted the chip values at the start of the tourney. Not because the eye is reading denoms every hand. And with even a little experience, that becomes automatic. What’s printed on the chips does not come into it.

 

[BGinGA]

I mean that if past the first few hands a player is still sweating over questions like “wait, what are the purple chips worth again?” — rather than pondering strategic, tactical, probability, psychological or other issues — that is going to be a problem for succeeding at poker.

Say I’m playing in a tournament, and we’re a few levels in. I know the blinds are 200/400. The small blind has two black chips in, and the big blind has one purple. There’s also 9 green chips in front of the dealer.

Preflop, a player in the cutoff position says, “raise,” and slides in three purples and a black.

I’m the button. Do I look down, panic, and think, oh my god, help, time out—let me now read all the printed denominations on the green, black and purple chips to figure out what the heck’s going on?

No. The poker player’s brain knows that the greens are 25s, the blacks are 100s and the purples are 500s. It sees the 9 greens and recognizes them as the antes; the two black 100s are the small blind, the big blind put in 500 (and gets back 100 change if he folds to the raise), and the raiser made it 4x, or 1600. There’s 2200 total in the pot before I act.

How does the brain know this at a glance? Because it noted the chip values at the start of the tourney. Not because the eye is reading denoms every hand. And with even a little experience, that becomes automatic. What’s printed on the chips does not come into it.

You just don't get it, and never will.

 

[Taghkanic]

Right back at you. Some will never give up this idée fixe, which is about convention, not actual usability. I say that based on years of using non-demons in a private game without issues, so I have proof of concept. Per above, if hosting a public game, or game for newbies/amateurs, I’d use denoms.

 

[BGinGA]

And since you're into hypothetical situations, try this one on for size:

You're playing an online tournament. There are no denominations on the chips, nor on the display. When you get ready to bet, you can choose multiples of green, white, yellow, and pink chip images to construct your bet.

Good luck.

 

[Chipandchair]

I am firmly in the only denom camp, it is chips that are unnecessary.

 

[BGinGA]

I am firmly in the only denom camp, it is chips that are unnecessary.
View attachment 590558

Joking aside, I'd rather play with those than undenominated chips. Seriously. But only the clay versions.

 

[msuroo]

Right back at you. Some will never give up this idée fixe, which is about convention, not actual usability.

God I told myself a year ago that I would stop taking the bait but here we are I guess.

I have not just one but *two* colorblind regs in the game I inherited. When I upgraded to Paulson solids (from the cheap injection molds the previous hosts used), I worked with them to choose shades they could recognize. I’ve posted many times on that topic.

Neither needs or has ever asked for denoms, and both are among the better players.

Like, this says it all. If we bend and stretch and buy extra chips that happen to work for these two regs, we can get around it. But that doesn’t make denoms not useful lol.

 

[upNdown]

I mean that if past the first few hands a player is still sweating over questions like “wait, what are the purple chips worth again?” — rather than pondering strategic, tactical, probability, psychological or other issues — that is going to be a problem for succeeding at poker.

Say I’m playing in a tournament, and we’re a few levels in. I know the blinds are 200/400. The small blind has two black chips in, and the big blind has one purple. There’s also 9 green chips in front of the dealer.

Preflop, a player in the cutoff position says, “raise,” and slides in three purples and a black.

I’m the button. Do I look down, panic, and think, oh my god, help, time out—let me now read all the printed denominations on the green, black and purple chips to figure out what the heck’s going on?

No. The poker player’s brain knows that the greens are 25s, the blacks are 100s and the purples are 500s. It sees the 9 greens and recognizes them as the antes; the two black 100s are the small blind, the big blind put in 500 (and gets back 100 change if he folds to the raise), and the raiser made it 4x, or 1600. There’s 2200 total in the pot plus the 225 in antes before I act.

How does the brain know this at a glance? Because it noted the chip values at the start of the tourney. Not because the eye is reading denoms every hand. And with even a little experience, that becomes automatic. What’s printed on the chips does not come into it.

Yeah I think you're over simplifying things. Maybe you spend a lot of time playing with morons?
My poker player's brain does all the things you suggest it should. But the problems happen when I'm playing somewhere where the purples are 1K. My brain sees 1600, I try to 3x him by announcing 4800, and he cheerfully tosses in another 1700 regardless of what he's holding.
Maybe I'm the moron, but I don't think so.

 

[Taghkanic]

Question: How many millions of chips like these were produced—and did the generations of people who used them (or plastic interlocking chips, or bone chips, etc.) have an impossible time playing poker?

 

[upNdown]

Question: How many millions of chips like these were produced—and did the generations of people who used them (or plastic interlocking chips, or bone chips, etc.) have an impossible time playing poker?

View attachment 590561

There were generations of people who fucked their cousins because they were the only ones nearby, but that doesn't mean it's the best practice.

 

[msuroo]

Question: How many millions of chips like these were produced—and did the generations of people who used them (or plastic interlocking chips, or bone chips, etc.) have an impossible time playing poker?

View attachment 590561

Again, you are making the leap that because you *can* play without them, that it is then objectively better. GTFO with that.

 

[Taghkanic]

There were generations of people who fucked their cousins because they were the only ones nearby, but that doesn't mean it's the best practice.

Limp analogy. Bakelite and other non-denoms were once ubiquitous in U.S. home games. Incest by comparison is rare.

 

[BGinGA]

At this point, I think he's just trolling.

 

[Taghkanic]

But hey, I’d like to come over and play chess with any of you—just as long as the names of the pieces are printed on all of them. You wouldn’t want me asking every move, “Is this a knight or a castle?”

 

[BGinGA]

But hey, I’d like to come over and play chess with any of you—just as long as the names of the pieces are printed on all of them. You wouldn’t want me asking every move, “Is this a knight or a castle?”

A better comparison would be playing chess with checkers of different colors. Same fucked-up situation as playing poker with only color-differentiated chips/checkers. Sure, it can be done, but who in their right mind would want to when better alternatives exist?

 

[msuroo]

But hey, I’d like to come over and play chess with any of you—just as long as the names of the pieces are printed on all of them. You wouldn’t want me asking every move, “Is this a knight or a castle?”

Chessboards very commonly have labeled ranks and files - no idea why, surely you can count to 8.

 

[Taghkanic]

How many chip colors does one typically find in a small MTT? It’s sometimes as few as four, and seldom more than six. That’s why I’ve never felt the need to learn to count to seven.

 

[BGinGA]

How many chip colors does one typically find in a small MTT? It’s sometimes as few as four, and seldom more than six. That’s why I’ve never felt the need to learn to count to seven.

Tonight's small MTT event on pokerstars had eight: T5 through T100,000. I have no idea what colors they were, since the denoms were printed on the chip images, and the betting controls did not reference chip color -- only numbers.

 

[Mr Winberg]

How does the brain know this at a glance? Because it noted the chip values at the start of the tourney. Not because the eye is reading denoms every hand. And with even a little experience, that becomes automatic. What’s printed on the chips does not come into it.

I say that based on years of using non-demons in a private game without issues, so I have proof of concept.

Question: How many millions of chips like these were produced—and did the generations of people who used them (or plastic interlocking chips, or bone chips, etc.) have an impossible time playing poker?

You are still trying to convince us that denoms are not necessary, but do you honestly think that we all actually believe they are necessary?? Yes, we all know that it becomes automatic! We have all played and hosted with non-denoms!

@Taghkanic, please answer me this time: Do you, or do you not, understand that: We all know that it becomes automatic!

I own an apartment at the third floor, there's no elevator. I've lived here for 5 years, I think that's proof that you do not need elevators.

I know it's not the same thing. I'm just trying to show you that although there are things that aren't necessary per say, one can still prefer them.

And the ole "generations of people did fine without them" argument can be made for pretty much everything. My parents lived in a shoebox in the middle of the road, they only slept 1 hour every night because they needed to lick the road clean every morning before going to school, after which they worked in the factory without pay for 12 hours, and every night their dad would beat them to sleep with a belt, but they still played poker with denominated chips!!

 

[Taghkanic]

I see the conversation has been moved from “obviously people must have denoms otherwise hosting will be a nightmare” to “hey, whoa, WHOA, it’s just a preference.”

 

[Taghkanic]

Tonight's small MTT event on pokerstars had eight: T5 through T100,000. I have no idea what colors they were, since the denoms were printed on the chip images, and the betting controls did not reference chip color -- only numbers.

So, you recommend that if someone is planning on purchasing chips to host a 2-3 table tournament, that they buy eight different denoms?

 

[msuroo]

I see the conversation has been moved from “obviously people must have denoms otherwise hosting will be a nightmare” to “hey, whoa, WHOA, it’s just a preference.”

Actually I started there.

I actually respect your dedication to this, and think it's perfectly reasonable that you prefer the aesthetics of chips without denominations.

But keep at it!

 

[CrazyEddie]

this thread is full of deliberate contentiousness from both sides and is now beyond worthlessness