What destroys long-running games? (2 Viewers)

[Trihonda]

I think getting to “cutesy” and “trying to make sure everyone has fun” are a quick path to ruin.

I certainly don’t try to ensure everyone has fun, I just recruit players that are a good fit, that are fun people..the kinda folks you’d like to sit down and have a beer with. We encourage spirited play, But we dont tolerate asshats or douchebags. It’s a fun friendly atmosphere, whether im winning or losing.

If a player wants to angle shoot, berate newbies, hit and run, or mercilessly needle others at the table, there’s probably another game better suited for them….

 

[MrCatPants]

I vote you funnier than @MrCatPants, unless you're the one licking the rails.

You mistake this for a democracy.

 

[Booshme]

I think Players can make or break the game. As a host I try really hard to find people that fit, that are fun to be around and hang out with, the Poker skills are secondary.

My main rule is that my game is a douchebaggery free zone. I want players, whether you win or lose, to do so nicely. Everyone who plays is a guest in my home and I want people to be treated accordingly.

It's about the fun! if I ever had a player being disrespectful, or a jerk, or starting a major drunken argument, that player would probably not last long in my game.

I get some very skilled players, and some relative newbies to the game, and I want everyone to have a good time win or lose.

While there are some exceptions, it's not uncommon for my game to fill up within 15-30 minutes of sending out an exploratory text. I'm proud that people want to play my game, and I work hard to live up to that.

What are some things to do that someone new to hosting could pick up?

 

[bergs]

What are some things to do that someone new to hosting could pick up?

The laundry, the dog’s toys, @Josh Kifer and his failed aspirations, Dallas Cowboys fans’ morale…

 

[Quicksilver-75]

Marriage.


But seriously, marriage.

 

[brocck]

I hosted a tournament twice a week for about a year. The game had been running on and off for about a year before I took over. I would say the entire time I was hosting we probably only had the game not run a handful of times. Consistently had two tables, 12-18 players every week. Since I stopped hosting the game they are lucky to have a game once a week and its almost never two tables now. They are actually lucky to have one full table.

When I was running the game I would always have the game prepped at least 30 minutes before we started. I had a hard set of rules that were almost never altered except for in very specific circumstances. I consistently changed the cards out every month. I also tried to be as professional as I could when it came to dealing so we could play the max amount of hands per hour. And I think the most important part is we had fun with each other.

The biggest complaints I get from my old players are. The new host is late setting up sometimes. The rules have gotten much laxer. They rarely change the cards out. The dealing is sub par. And the same players seem to consistently win now. Overall they just don't have as much fun anymore, which I think is probably the most important part when your playing small stakes. It's not about the money when the stakes are low, its about the experience.

 

[btbmason]

Marriage.


But seriously, marriage.

I’ll agree and also add having children.

 

[Quicksilver-75]

I’ll agree and also add having children.

I've found it's the kids that get dad's OUT of the house. Lol.

 

[merkong]

Why is my game better? I provide more than just a place to play cards, it's inherently gender-neutral, and best of all: the threat of encountering naked dudes walking around is greatly reduced

I don’t know… Gender neutral with the chance of encountering naked players sounds like there might be a line forming at the door to get in.

 

[merkong]

Overall they just don't have as much fun anymore, which I think is probably the most important part when your playing small stakes. It's not about the money when the stakes are low, its about the experience.

This.

 

[Trihonda]

What are some things to do that someone new to hosting could pick up?

For starters, build a nice environment. Nice table and chips as you can afford. Have a few snacks, but don’t break the bank. Then go to other games if you can, identify folks who seem to make the game better, who are fun, then invite them to your game. Avoid people who add drama.

Then install systems to make your ga,e run smoothly. Whether it’s a decent tourney software, or having basic rules and enforcing them, you’ll keep and attract the kind of players who you want. If you get the super casual player who balks at your basic rules, complaining that youre taking the game too seriously, you can explain that the basic rules all have solid reasons for their implementation. For example, string betting is a rule that many newbies dont understand, and they’ll start saying “I’ll call your bet, and raise you…”. Or they’ll put one chip in, then go back for more chips.. I’ve been called out at small neighbor games when I suggest they not allow string bets, with people saying “it’s friendly”, but I’ll explain nicely that if they allow string betting, it allows someone to angle shoot, and the rule protects players.. learn the reasons behind some of the rules, and be prepared to explain the “why” and the casual players might come around, or they’ll migrate out of your game naturally.

 

[natertot]

I’m in a small club that plays in person occasionally and online a good amount. We had one person who was added late who was just miles ahead of everyone else, really changed the dynamic and almost stopped everyone from playing in general.

 

[krafticus]

Adding strip poker into the rotation could potentially kill the game. You never know though, some may actually enjoy it.

 

[Labrat]

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[Taghkanic]

* Nontrivial reasons I’ve lost longtime regs:

Death - 2
Bankruptcy - 1
Divorce - 1
Pregnancy - 1
Old age - 1
Loss of sight - 1
New job out of area/state - 3
Kicked out for cheating - 2
KO for other bad behavior - 2


* More trivial reasons:

Didn’t want to play higher stakes like the rest of the group - lots

Didn’t want to switch from tourneys to cash - lots

“Don’t really like poker” - 1

Said they were coming then flaked out too many times; removed from list - several

Took a wrong turn leaving the game, got lost in the woods and had to be found / rescued at 3 am; too ashamed to return to game - 1

“I suck at this please don’t invite me anymore so I don’t get tempted to play again” - 1


…………..

Now that I tally all that up it’s incredible to me that I still have a game

 

[Taghkanic]

I played in a cigar store game that had to find a new home after a Covid closure. New place agreed to match the "buy two cigars" rule of the old place. Then after a month upped it to four cigars. Game died. Wasn't the money as much as who the hell wants to buy/go through four cigars per week?

I didn’t know you were David Mamet, very cool

 

[Phoe9x]

Kicked out for cheating - 2

Card marking? How did you catch them?

 

[Taghkanic]

Card marking? How did you catch them?

I posted a long thread on the main one, search on “catching a cheat.”

The other was a guy who wasn’t really a reg, only player here twice, but there were credible accusations of him colluding/signaling with a sidekick he brought along. Some people who I met at another reg’s home game, gave them a try, got rid of them quickly.

 

[MrCatPants]

Now that I tally all that up it’s incredible to me that I still have a game

From the game i originally inherited, counting me its two players left plus a third occasional (granted its been ten years).

The second game i took on the orphans from, its only three left counting me.

If your game ain't growing, its dying.

 

[merkong]

I think Players can make or break the game. As a host I try really hard to find people that fit, that are fun to be around and hang out with, the Poker skills are secondary.

My main rule is that my game is a douchebaggery free zone. I want players, whether you win or lose, to do so nicely. Everyone who plays is a guest in my home and I want people to be treated accordingly.

It's about the fun! if I ever had a player being disrespectful, or a jerk, or starting a major drunken argument, that player would probably not last long in my game.

I get some very skilled players, and some relative newbies to the game, and I want everyone to have a good time win or lose.

While there are some exceptions, it's not uncommon for my game to fill up within 15-30 minutes of sending out an exploratory text. I'm proud that people want to play my game, and I work hard to live up to that.

This. ^^^^ This. ^^^^ This. ^^^^

Should we be co-authoring some sort of Hosting 101 manual or organizing a Hosts Wellness and Rejuvination Retreat?

 

[merkong]

Caving in to winning player(s) efforts to raise the blinds.

Don’t do it right? I thought long and hard about it, almost did, backed off and am so very glad I stayed true to the vision I have for the game… So stupid of me to even creep to the edge. I’ve literally watched games begin to die because of this. Have the occasional higher stakes event.

Stay the course hosts.

 

[Booshme]

One reason I left a game was just life became too busy to add poker. And another was when money was tight and I didn’t have much for my normal fun activities.

Oh, and a reason I didn’t return to a game I consistently frequented was when I hear that a friend of mine started playing super aggressive and brought people along that were suited more for the environment. I play to win, but not at the expense of having a friendly game with friends, especially ones I’ve known for years and would see on the regular

 

[Bluegrass Poker]

Took a wrong turn leaving the game, got lost in the woods and had to be found / rescued at 3 am; too ashamed to return to game - 1

ok, you can’t drop this and not give the details.

 

[Taghkanic]

ok, you can’t drop this and not give the details.

Haha, how long you got?

So:

Older lady, the type who plays any hand with an ace or king in it and usually will call down at least two streets unimproved hoping to catch top pair.

I play with her regularly in another game, but occasionally she comes to mine. Most times she gets a ride with one of my regs, but sometimes comes on her own. She has a big minivan which always has problems. She rarely fixes it despite having the money to do so.

Usually she busts by 10-11 pm, but was on a heater this particular night and lasted until after 2 am. Waaay past her bedtime.

I live at the end of a mile long dirt road. Most of my property is deep and forbidding woods, plus about 40 acres of meadows which I keep clear with wide paths mowed through tall grass in the summer. Also have miles of trails in the forest. These are driveable with my custom Jeep or offroad vehicles but are really not suited to most consumer cars.

The access road runs north-south to a dead end with a couple hundred acres of woods on either side. The meadows are west and south of my poker barn, accessed only off-road on grassy paths.

Anyway, the older lady’s reg friend walked her to her car, and swears that he saw her drive away north up the dirt road, toward the main paved road.

About 20 minutes later he gets a distress call: “I don’t know where I am.”

Reg talks with her a while then passes the phone to me.

I start quizzing her: Did you make it to the main paved road? What was the last sign you saw? What is around you? What can you see?

She is kind of panicking and can’t really give me any helpful clues. Finally I determine that she never made it off the dirt road to the paved highway. I’m trying to visualize the spots where she could have accidentally turned off the dirt road into the woods.

There are really only a couple possibilities, so I jump in the Jeep to find her, still talking on the phone.


I tell her to keep the car lights on, stay put, honk her horn occasionally, and whatever happens DO NOT GET OUT OF THE CAR. (There are bears and coyotes here.)

I investigate the only two places she could have gotten off the road without her minivan getting hopelessly stuck. Both are about a half mile north, toward the main road. I go as far as it would be possible for an old lady in a minivan to go offroad without breaking down/getting stuck.

Nothing. She’s not there. And on the phone, she says can’t see my lights or hear me honking.

As I head back to start over and get reinforcements, I try to walk her through opening the maps app on her smartphone and taking a screenshot of her location to text back to me. This is fruitless — she can’t figure any of it out, between her age and panicked state.

I get back to the game and tell the guys (who have stopped playing because of the situation) I’m at a total loss here. Still talking with the lady on the phone to try to get clues.

Finally I ask her to honk her horn some more. Now I can hear it faintly in the distance — to the south, in the exact opposite direction of the way she supposedly drove away north up the road.

Somehow she started up the dirt road, turned around, threaded her way through all the other cars parked at the dead end in front of my barn, then headed south into my meadows. Then drove around the mowed paths for 20 minutes before calling.

The terrain is navigable by a minivan in dry weather (at like 5 mph max) but quite hilly in parts, with the occasional boulder and other obstacles to navigate around. It looks NOTHING like the road she came in on.

But I guess at her age late at night she got disoriented.

I tell her to keep honking every 15 seconds or so, and finally find her minivan headed up a steep hill near my big pond, about a 1/4 mile south of where the game is held.

It’s hard to describe, but it took a lot of strange decisions and maneuvering for her to get to the place she did. Basically did a 180 on the dirt road, headed back past my poker barn and downhill in the exact wrong directions onto a rutted grass path. Then tooled around the fields for 20 minutes before calling in distress.

After checking that she was not having a heart attack or stroke or anything I asked if she was OK to follow me slowly back through the fields, which we did at a snail’s pace.

We then brought her inside to settle down before one of the guys helped her get home.

I’ve played with her elsewhere since, but she was very embarrassed and hasn’t asked to come back to my game. Which is just fine by me.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

Bomb pots… Blech. Also, not into twists; I don’t stand up, we don’t play Deuce/7, all that weird stuff. There’s no show me chip. Poker as it was designed. Rake? Yikes. Feed them and tell them not to be schmucks. Then the food is free from a me having to pay for it, everyone eats and aside from preparing for the session, all I’m risking is my buy-in.

Don’t get me started on the years being a regular poker host has shaved off my life though.

I think a lot of this depends on the player base. My weekly game is almost entirely opposite - it's a group that I joined a while back, we rotate hosting so I usually host about once a month.

These guys LOVE bomb pots, show'em chips, and the nit game. We play .25/.50 starting at $60 max but increasing to $100 later in the evening (plays like shortstacked 1/1). Host provides dinner.

We have a solid group that keeps coming back week after week. The interest list has grown consistently, and we rarely get past the first level of the tiered invite list before the table is full.

 

[Taghkanic]

I think a lot of this depends on the player base. My weekly game is almost entirely opposite - it's a group that I joined a while back, we rotate hosting so I usually host about once a month.

These guys LOVE bomb pots, show'em chips, and the nit game. We play .25/.50 starting at $60 max but increasing to $100 later in the evening (plays like shortstacked 1/1). Host provides dinner.

We have a solid group that keeps coming back week after week. The interest list has grown consistently, and we rarely get past the first level of the tiered invite list before the table is full.

I think hosting is subject to variance just as we are with cards. The cycles are just a lot longer and slower.

A game can rungood (as mine did) for years, maybe even a decade, with a very stable player pool and high attendance.

Then bang, the life variance kicks in. Leukemia. Heart attack. New job out of state. Pregnant. Loss of sight. Bankruptcy. Divorce. Also had to kick two players out.

Running bad... I saw all of these happen in succession over 3-4 years in my very steady game, and eventually had to scramble.

Last winter I was really hurting for players and had to call off a couple of games. I worked hard to recruit a bunch of new players so in the past few months I’m oversubscribed with a waiting list. Back to rungood.

 

[LeCoq]

Great input from some experienced hosts. I am still quite new to hosting, but so far it has been fun and enjoyable. I concur with it being a little challenging to always get a full table. Last week the game was cancelled due to not enough players, but this week's game filled up right away. The one thing I think my players like is that it is truly low stakes. We are a more social group and keeping it cheap makes it more accessable to everyone.

 

[elemeno]

I think hosting is subject to variance just as we are with cards. The cycles are just a lot longer and slower.

A game can rungood (as mine did) for years, maybe even a decade, with a very stable player pool and high attendance.

Then bang, the life variance kicks in. Leukemia. Heart attack. New job out of state. Pregnant. Loss of sight. Bankruptcy. Divorce. Also had to kick two players out.

Running bad... I saw all of these happen in succession over 3-4 years in my very steady game, and eventually had to scramble.

Last winter I was really hurting for players and had to call off a couple of games. I worked hard to recruit a bunch of new players so in the past few months I’m oversubscribed with a waiting list. Back to rungood.

I’m curious - in your stable game that ran for years, was the skill level about equal and therefore no one really won or lost much money? Or were the fish okay with losing? Or unaware that they were losing as often/as much as they were?

 

[Taghkanic]

I’m curious - in your stable game that ran for years, was the skill level about equal and therefore no one really won or lost much money? Or were the fish okay with losing? Or unaware that they were losing as often/as much as they were?

There were definitely long-term winners and losers. But since the main game was a weekly tourney (two tables) the fish had more hope of occasionally getting in the money or even winning occasionally.

About half the players would stay for cash later and that tended to be more lopsided than the tourney. At least a few players burned out because of the cash game.

Now that I am running a higher-stakes one-table cash game, the core group is quite stable but the cast of people who play half of the time or less is more in flux.

 

[elemeno]

There were definitely long-term winners and losers. But since the main game was a weekly tourney (two tables) the fish had more hope of occasionally getting in the money or even winning occasionally.

About half the players would stay for cash later and that tended to be more lopsided than the tourney. At least a few players burned out because of the cash game.

Now that I am running a higher-stakes one-table cash game, the core group is quite stable but the cast of people who play half of the time or less is more in flux.

Sounds like the core group takes the money of the people in flux?