What destroys long-running games? (2 Viewers)

[Taghkanic]

Sounds like the core group takes the money of the people in flux?

Some but not all. The longest-running reg (who actually originally started this game a good 15 years ago, before another reg took it over, and then passed it to me) is a losing player, bit of a whale really.

For the first few years he was a winner, then others got better, plus some sharper players joined.

But sure, most of the players who “stick” are either winning or break-even. Requires deep pockets to lose for a long time! Also good humor or delusional optimism…

Also in my tournament, the two players with the worst results were also the most regular. Go figure. Sadly neither plays cash.

 

[Old State]

Just seeing this.

It’s what no one wants to hear or accept, but NL cash poker destroys games or makes it extremely difficult to keep going long term. Prematurely raising the stakes of a game will kill it with months or a year.

If you are older than 45 and played poker when you were younger you will remember NL didn’t exist for cash games. Ironically it did exist in the very early days of the game, but more much of the 20th limit poker was played. There must have been a reason.

In the years right after the poker boom of 2003…cash poker remained limit at the casinos and when Holdem became mainstream my home games was limit holdem. Once NL cash became a thing in the casinos everyone demanded it at the home games as it was superior. Our regular home games evaporated within one year.

No matter what, and no matter how much conviction they say it with, the average person will not play no limit cash poker on a regular basis. Just like they said in the movie rounders “even most pros won’t play no limit, the swings are too much“.

Unfortunately, no one I know it’s been willing to play limit hold on despite all this and I haven’t hosted a limited game in 20 years. Maybe one day people will come around and realize the original reason the casino switched in the first place 100 years ago

 

[chippitydoodah]

Host changed name to MrCarParts
Nobody can contact him for game

 

[ekricket]

My opinion is it comes down to a couple of things

When it becomes “about the money”. If it’s that I’ll just go to a casino. Sure, money has to be involved, but when it ceases to be a “scorekeeper” and it becomes about “buying groceries” then you are doomed.

When the fun of poker is lost. That’s what people are there for, right? They aren’t there for funny games where you stand for half hour, or other gimmicky promotions. That kinda stuff warps the “poker” they are there for.
Sure it’s fun at first, but that’s not what people are coming for. Any of these things that move money from poker and into wacky “addons” eventually takes its toll.

NL vs Limit? Play tournaments. Fixed costs are attractive to anybody. And if you don’t like fixed costs, then see the first point above, that’s what’s going to hobble your game.

Quibbling over pennies. If you are hosting, it’s going to cost you. Quit nickeling and diming people for corn chips or toilet paper. When you start talking about “how much it costs you” then people see it’s the money that matters, not the fun you are trying to promote.

Most of the time you simply get out of it what you put into it. People come to these kind of events to escape life squabbles, not to just take in new ones.

 

[Taghkanic]

No matter what, and no matter how much conviction they say it with, the average person will not play no limit cash poker on a regular basis.

I don’t need average people. Eight weirdos will do

Just like they said in the movie rounders “even most pros won’t play no limit, the swings are too much“.

Rounders came out 26 years ago... How many pros now prefer limit instead of no limit?

 

[Josh Kifer]

People complaining that they never win at a certain game........

 

[merkong]

People complaining that they never win at a certain game........

I feel seen and it’s my game!

 

[bergs]

Force 5 hurricanes

 

[Kain8]

kids.... All can torpedo a game.

Bomb pots… Blech. Also, not into twists; I don’t stand up, we don’t play Deuce/7, all that weird stuff. There’s no show me chip. Poker as it was designed.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Just recently saw an interview with Deeb during the WSOP and he said bomb pots are ruining games. The bad players go broke to quickly.

But IMO, the host makes all the difference in a game running a long time or not, and the rake

This has actually been the opposite of my experience. Bomb pots create a much shallower stack-to-pot ratio that increases the gamble factor, giving less skilled players a better chance to win a little.

But of course they do create a lot of bloated pots that those players may not be adjusting for well enough, so I guess it could backfire.

 

[JustinInMN]

Hosts that are losing players. I’ve seen at least 3 games break up because the host was one of the biggest losing players.

This is so underrated. The best home game I played was just two blocks from my house. The host was good enough to be a pro (and that is what happened, he moved to Vegas, but I was able to buy one of his tables on the cheap to upgrade my setup), and had a live in girlfriend and roommate that all played. So getting a game together was never that hard. But we always had good action. Good players that host can get into slumps and lose motivation to put in the effort. bad players that host have one more reason not to do it.

 

[allforcharity]

If bomb pots are causing games to break up then everybody involved is playing bomb pots wrong.

 

[JustinInMN]

Don’t get me started on the years being a regular poker host has shaved off my life though.

I actually very much doubt you have shaved anything off your life. The social benefit, the pride and purpose in your game, the mental benefit, this are all good things for your life and on net, you have surely added longevity from my viewpoint.

That said, this could be offset by 4 trips to the hot dog roller every week so you never know.

 

[merkong]

That said, this could be offset by 4 trips to the hot dog roller every week so you never know.

They’re going name me as an accessory to something based on the foot traffic I see heading into the James Dean Lounge.

 

[Munchies11]

Children. Literally little league/soccer/etc games leave us with no available days for the group to play

I hear ya !!! When I was 21-27 we had a game three times a week. Now trying to get the fellas together is impossible. However we will still love the game so we try and play every so often when we can . It’s hard to arrange I feel your pain

 

[SetToBean]

My opinion is it comes down to a couple of things

When it becomes “about the money”. If it’s that I’ll just go to a casino. Sure, money has to be involved, but when it ceases to be a “scorekeeper” and it becomes about “buying groceries” then you are doomed.

When the fun of poker is lost. That’s what people are there for, right? They aren’t there for funny games where you stand for half hour, or other gimmicky promotions. That kinda stuff warps the “poker” they are there for.
Sure it’s fun at first, but that’s not what people are coming for. Any of these things that move money from poker and into wacky “addons” eventually takes its toll.

NL vs Limit? Play tournaments. Fixed costs are attractive to anybody. And if you don’t like fixed costs, then see the first point above, that’s what’s going to hobble your game.

Quibbling over pennies. If you are hosting, it’s going to cost you. Quit nickeling and diming people for corn chips or toilet paper. When you start talking about “how much it costs you” then people see it’s the money that matters, not the fun you are trying to promote.

Most of the time you simply get out of it what you put into it. People come to these kind of events to escape life squabbles, not to just take in new ones.

I’ve found a much better way to “make money” off poker games is gently nudge people towards mutually beneficial referral programs and let them be if they’re not interested without any hard feelings.

If a person doesn’t want to do 15 minutes of form-filling and a minor inconvenience for a day to make both you and them >$100 at no practical risk or cost (e.g major bank programs) they’re probably not lifting a finger for you for any other expense beyond standard tipping and trying will just antagonise them.

 

[brettbsb]

Quibbling over pennies. If you are hosting, it’s going to cost you. Quit nickeling and diming people for corn chips or toilet paper. When you start talking about “how much it costs you” then people see it’s the money that matters, not the fun you are trying to promote.

This right here. I order pizza or food every week, toss some drinks in the fridge, and I’ll happily refuse contributions. One of my friends said Monday “I’m happy you don’t take a rake” which made me chuckle and say “why would I?.” I get his point. I go out of my way to make it sweet, but I do it because I want to; my whole life I wanted to host an awesome home game. Players flip high cards and share dollars to make cash out smoother. If money is tight, it’s tight, but no one wants to be around the nickel and dimer. We were in high school during the early 2000’s boom, so we played ALOT of poker, albeit $5 buy ins, but it was our life, so I’m incredibly grateful and appreciative to still be playing with some of the same guys.

Our game is card players, not exactly friendly for newcomers, but everyone sort of understands that so no one is bringing their cousin or coworker who has never played before. I’d imagine the expectations portion is key as well.

 

[Gunnar]

Location is a crucial thing, having a place where you can host is crucial.

Regulars, one host can have a hard time getting a steady game without regulars, if you lose your regulars you lose the game.

Players growing out of the stakes, it is a very dangerous thing to raise the stakes but it also sucks when players from the game are playing another game somewhere where the stakes are higher so they start betting bigger and caring less in your game. There are players that can adjust to the stakes of each game but I find that many don't care about 50$ if they are usually buying in for 300$ at the Casino.

I have twice lost my game due to me moving around and not having a great setup to host anymore and that sucks.

 

[TheRealTeddyKGB]

This right here. I order pizza or food every week, toss some drinks in the fridge, and I’ll happily refuse contributions. One of my friends said Monday “I’m happy you don’t take a rake” which made me chuckle and say “why would I?.” I get his point. I go out of my way to make it sweet, but I do it because I want to; my whole life I wanted to host an awesome home game. Players flip high cards and share dollars to make cash out smoother. If money is tight, it’s tight, but no one wants to be around the nickel and dimer. We were in high school during the early 2000’s boom, so we played ALOT of poker, albeit $5 buy ins, but it was our life, so I’m incredibly grateful and appreciative to still be playing with some of the same guys.

Our game is card players, not exactly friendly for newcomers, but everyone sort of understands that so no one is bringing their cousin or coworker who has never played before. I’d imagine the expectations portion is key as well.

Asking $ for food kills a long running game? I really doubt people are coming OR not coming to my game because I charge $3 for a Nathan's Colossal Dog.

I'm pretty sure they're coming or not coming because of other factors:

1. Day of the week/availability
2. The game itself & the people who attend
3. Location
4. Set up

Don't get me wrong free food & drink is awesome. But it's ok to ask people to chip in too. I attend a game on the regular & love the fact I don't ever have to bring anything. I can just throw some $ in the tip jar & the host can keep the supplies flowing rake free.

 

[merkong]

Asking $ for food kills a long running game? I really doubt people are coming OR not coming to my game because I charge $3 for a Nathan's Colossal Dog.

I'm pretty sure they're coming or not coming because of other factors:

1. Day of the week/availability
2. The game itself & the people who attend
3. Location
4. Set up

Don't get me wrong free food & drink is awesome. But it's ok to ask people to chip in too. I attend a game on the regular & love the fact I don't ever have to bring anything. I can just throw some $ in the tip jar & the host can keep the supplies flowing rake free.

Eat and throw something in the bucket.

That’s how it’s done here and it works fine.

 

[merkong]

Quibbling over pennies. If you are hosting, it’s going to cost you. Quit nickeling and diming people for corn chips or toilet paper. When you start talking about “how much it costs you” then people see it’s the money that matters, not the fun you are trying to promote.

If you host it’s going to cost you… That’s true but it doesn’t have to be. They want to escape life’s squabbles they can go to a movie. It’s cheaper to have a hot dog roller, 2 pounds of sloppy joes, 2 dozen Dunkin Donuts. A wall of snack chips, a bowl of candy, and a commercial beverage cooler full of soda and water at their disposal. All while taking my money at the poker table. A few bucks off their stack at the end of the night is absolutely not too much to ask.

Hosts do enough with the cabinet of poker chips, cards, table and seating, and making sure the facilities are functional and clean, and parking is snowblowed (yeah, it’s coming folks)… I’m not feeding you too lol

But, the cheap are gonna cheap. It’s just that they don’t do it at The Godfather Club.

The ghost of James Dean prevents it.

 

[brettbsb]

Asking $ for food kills a long running game? I really doubt people are coming OR not coming to my game because I charge $3 for a Nathan's Colossal Dog.

I'm pretty sure they're coming or not coming because of other factors:

1. Day of the week/availability
2. The game itself & the people who attend
3. Location
4. Set up

Don't get me wrong free food & drink is awesome. But it's ok to ask people to chip in too. I attend a game on the regular & love the fact I don't ever have to bring anything. I can just throw some $ in the tip jar & the host can keep the supplies flowing rake free.

If you host it’s going to cost you… That’s true but it doesn’t have to be. They want to escape life’s squabbles they can go to a movie. It’s cheaper to have a hot dog roller, 2 pounds of sloppy joes, 2 dozen Dunkin Donuts. A wall of snack chips, a bowl of candy, and a commercial beverage cooler full of soda and water at their disposal. All while taking my money at the poker table. A few bucks off their stack at the end of the night is absolutely not too much to ask.

Hosts do enough with the cabinet of poker chips, cards, table and seating, and making sure the facilities are functional and clean, and parking is snowblowed (yeah, it’s coming folks)… I’m not feeding you too lol

But, the cheap are gonna cheap. It’s just that they don’t do it at The Godfather Club.

The ghost of James Dean prevents it.

View attachment 1397628

n

Asking $ for food kills a long running game? I really doubt people are coming OR not coming to my game because I charge $3 for a Nathan's Colossal Dog.

I'm pretty sure they're coming or not coming because of other factors:

1. Day of the week/availability
2. The game itself & the people who attend
3. Location
4. Set up

Don't get me wrong free food & drink is awesome. But it's ok to ask people to chip in too. I attend a game on the regular & love the fact I don't ever have to bring anything. I can just throw some $ in the tip jar & the host can keep the supplies flowing rake free.

You charge your friends $3 for a hot dog? I can see why you missed the point of the quote I posted regarding nickel and diming. People hate it.

 

[merkong]

You charge your friends $3 for a hot dog? I can see why you missed the point of the quote I posted regarding nickel and diming. People hate it.

Who said I charge anything for anything? It’s called not being a schnook. If they tip they tip.

Get your facts straight.

Or learn how to use the “insert quotes” function.

As hosts we can do what we want. If the game sustains good for us.

 

[JustinInMN]

Who said I charge anything for anything? It’s called not being a schnook. If they tip they tip.

Get your facts straight.

Or learn how to use the “insert quotes” function.

As hosts we can do what we want. If the game sustains good for us.

The quotes he inserted were not from you.

 

[merkong]

The quotes he inserted were not from you.

If you expand Teddy’s top one he hid one of mine in there… Diabolical!

 

[TheRealTeddyKGB]

You charge your friends $3 for a hot dog? I can see why you missed the point of the quote I posted regarding nickel and diming. People hate it.

Yes, I charge $3 for a hot dog. Are you saying that's nickle & diming or isn't? Because I'm not charging for anything else like the $200 Platinum Patron. Usually just silver but still that's not cheap either. And for the record we're not talking just 1 round we're talking several...

EDIT: I also did use the word charge which I suppose I used incorrectly on purpose for the sake of the conversation. I don't charge but there is a Tip Jar.

 

[merkong]

Yes, I charge $3 for a hot dog. Are you saying that's nickle & diming or isn't? Because I'm not charging for anything else like the $200 Platinum Patron. Usually just silver but still that's not cheap either. And for the record we're not talking just 1 round we're talking several...

EDIT: I also did use the word charge which I suppose I used incorrectly on purpose for the sake of the conversation. I don't charge but there is a Tip Jar.

But is it a hot dog sammich?

 

[exodus]

Having a baby XD

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

What destroys long-running home games? Associates coming to collect on debts, and men cleaning the cheese from under my feet while I'm in the middle of a hand. Playing Hazel while I'm trying to make a decision.

 

[SPR]

If you are somewhat new to hosting or looking for a pro's perspective on a well run poker room, give this book a try. I got this a while ago out of curiosity and still try to implement the concepts from time to time where applicable. They talk about real cardrooms but, it makes a few valid points about keeping all player types interested. Along with many other concepts including balance in competition etc. I've also been much more aware of the small details in how real card rooms operate now since reading this. I've been hosting since 2003 and found this to be an interesting read.

For the record, I'm on team $3 per hot dog! That's in the book also! (not really LOL!)