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What do you do when you’re ridiculously stuck in a session? (2 Viewers)

Windwalker said:
I was down $108k at one point, but won a sizable pot towards the end to get back to about $80k down. I was just too tired at that point and quit.

To @TheDuke’s questions, we now know for sure they have about 3-4 house players that rotate in and out of the game per night. I didn’t pay much attention to that because it’s pretty common. They also have a lot of distractions. Girls, masseuses, a barber, a chef, dancers, and a lot of people who hang around to chat / socialize.

Look, I’ve had big swings before, but none that were so often with good hands being cooled. I wasn’t in the right mindset to analyze it properly, which I think is the point when you’re in it.

As @kk405 mentioned, it’s not unusual for large games to be crooked. In fact, I’ve heard of some in LA, especially in the San Fernando valley. I just never thought I’d be in the middle of one.

For anyone who’s interested, I opted to “play nice”and get wired back the money. Waiting for it to hit tomorrow before deciding anything else.

Back at the K8 house tonight, the one without a rake and trustworthy people. Fuck the ugly chips, it’s a great game lol.

View attachment 711385
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decent run up tonight.

1A1AF56F-45F8-4047-B466-543033F6D7C5.jpeg
 
Windwalker said:
I was down $108k at one point, but won a sizable pot towards the end to get back to about $80k down. I was just too tired at that point and quit.
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If they have a flawless system for cheating, but aren’t very smart about how they orchestrate them con, it’s not clear why they would allow $26,500 to get clawed back.

Yet it sounds like they did actually decide to play it smarter and let the mark win back something in hopes of a return visit.

Also, from the deleted message, sounds like they offered quite a lot of credit — down 108K suggests that possibly two added buy-ins of 40K were extended. So maybe they calculated that collecting 41.5K was more feasible than 68K?
 
Taghkanic said:
If they have a flawless system for cheating, but aren’t very smart about how they orchestrate them con, it’s not clear why they would allow $26,500 to get clawed back.

Yet it sounds like they did actually decide to play it smarter and let the mark win back something in hopes of a return visit.

Also, from the deleted message, sounds like they offered quite a lot of credit — down 108K suggests that possibly two added buy-ins of 40K were extended. So maybe they calculated that collecting 41.5K was more feasible than 68K?
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Well, there were definitely some big pots that I won in the session. Usually ranging between $8k and 15k. I can think of at least 5 of those pots that I won, but there was almost always a bad beat that took more away.

I also didn’t rebuy like most marks would, I bet. Rather than buy up just when I was felted, I would keep adding chips if I dipped, trying to match the largest or second largest stack at the table. That’s SOP for me, in case I hit a monster.

I can’t begin to fathom the decisions that are made around which hands they decide to cheat on, but it’s clear from thinking about it that they probably overplayed their hand with me. I actually wouldn’t have even considered it, by the way, weren’t it for someone on this thread making me think about it again.
 
Windwalker said:
I was down $108k at one point, but won a sizable pot towards the end to get back to about $80k down. I was just too tired at that point and quit.

To @TheDuke’s questions, we now know for sure they have about 3-4 house players that rotate in and out of the game per night. I didn’t pay much attention to that because it’s pretty common. They also have a lot of distractions. Girls, masseuses, a barber, a chef, dancers, and a lot of people who hang around to chat / socialize.

Look, I’ve had big swings before, but none that were so often with good hands being cooled. I wasn’t in the right mindset to analyze it properly, which I think is the point when you’re in it.

As @kk405 mentioned, it’s not unusual for large games to be crooked. In fact, I’ve heard of some in LA, especially in the San Fernando valley. I just never thought I’d be in the middle of one.

For anyone who’s interested, I opted to “play nice”and get wired back the money. Waiting for it to hit tomorrow before deciding anything else.

Back at the K8 house tonight, the one without a rake and trustworthy people. Fuck the ugly chips, it’s a great game lol.

View attachment 711385
Click to expand...

Nice to hear you're getting your money back.

Any concern that you will now have an electronic trail of funds connecting you to these criminals? If they are stealing at the table, what other illegal areas are they dabbling in?
 
Windwalker said:
Can’t think of a single poker movie other than Rounders that actually worked for the mainstream. Everything else is such shit.
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Molly’s Game was pretty well-made. I liked it better on a second viewing. Not sure how it fared at the box office. One could quibble with some of the poker details, but overall it seemed like they must have had someone consulting with a little bit of a clue. Also Kevin Costner is surprisingly good in his small role.
 
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Also really impressed you were able to identify the scam and put a stop to it. Sounds like you have some great investigators
 
Windwalker said:
Can’t think of a single poker movie other than Rounders that actually worked for the mainstream. Everything else is such shit. The Stu Ungar story is somewhat watchable. But even Rounders wasn’t easy — if you haven’t read this “oral history”, it’s well worth the time.

https://www.theringer.com/movies/20...-ed-norton-poker-brian-koppelman-david-levien
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Interesting article. I have heard Kopperman on a couple interviews. Reading dialogue from actors though makes me wonder if we are the same species. They just think different than normal humans.

Also, how the fuck have I never seen Diner? Never even heard of it until reading that.
 
k9dr said:
Did the dealer cut the deck after removing it from the automatic shuffler ?
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Yep. But that’s a very very easy card mechanic move, one of the first ones they teach you, to cut a deck at a particular spot. There are a bunch of videos where Ricky Jay demonstrates those techniques on YouTube. This one is my favorite.

 
Taghkanic said:
Molly’s Game was pretty well-made. I liked it better on a second viewing. Not sure how it fared at the box office. One could quibble with some of the poker details, but overall it seemed like they must have had someone consulting with a little bit of a clue. Also Kevin Costner is surprisingly good in his small role.
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Ugh, can't believe I forgot that one -- it did pretty well commercially, too.
 
I'd say at the stakes that 99.9% of this forum is playing at, potential cheating is not at the forefront of concern when attending a new game. Majority of people here are more likely thinking about what kind of chips and cards they'll possibly be able to enjoy or have to endure for the game. Or wondering if the host has a hotdog roller.

At the stakes you're playing at, you probably need to be cautious with 100% of games outside of a casino or a very close knit group of friends.

Being completely ignorant of the typical environment for these private games you attend, I'd be paranoid about all these randoms lurking about.

Windwalker said:
Girls, masseuses, a barber, a chef, dancers, and a lot of people who hang around to chat / socialize.
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Like why the hell is there a barber? Who has the urge to get their haircut in the middle of a card game. Or is this card game a sideshow to a larger party? With that amount of money in play, I'd be annoyed with people just hanging around and socializing.

Aren't there any private high stakes games where it's primarily a card game and not a party?

Your threads are interesting. It's fascinating getting a glimpse of the 1% lifestyle.
 
TheDuke said:
Like why the hell is there a barber? Who has the urge to get their haircut in the middle of a card game. Or is this card game a sideshow to a larger party? With that amount of money in play, I'd be annoyed with people just hanging around and socializing.
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Even the K8 mushroom game I go to has a barber. He's almost always busy. They even set up a proper barber's chair and everything. Most people get a shave, some a haircut. I will say, there's nothing like a proper straight razor barber shave, if done right with all the fixings :-).
 
Frogzilla said:
Mississippi grind is pretty good
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Taghkanic said:
Molly’s Game was pretty well-made. I liked it better on a second viewing. Not sure how it fared at the box office. One could quibble with some of the poker details, but overall it seemed like they must have had someone consulting with a little bit of a clue. Also Kevin Costner is surprisingly good in his small role.
Click to expand...
As a young kid, I always liked "Maverick". Haven't watched it for probably decades though so not sure how it stands up.

Another one that I've liked is "The Grand". It's definitely a different movie for sure. The poker play is not the greatest, but I found it interesting. The movie was written around the actual poker tournament. That is, they played out the tournament like an actual game and then adjusted the plot of the movie to fit. Some pretty funny parts imho.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0427998/
 
kk405 said:
Just came across this thread. Regarding the original post, it is not unusual for layers to lose 1000+ BBs in our game...and we play once a week, sometimes twice a week. More often than not, we have more than one player losing 1000BB+...so, every game is obviously different. This is a game among 'friends'. We don't let outsiders in the group, nor do we invite pros or anyone we don't know (we do have a few pros among our circle of friends, but none are invited to the game)... someone has to vouch (and guarantee) another player to be considered, hence there is an extremely high level of trust. The game has no rake and has been running for almost 6 years now. I personally have never 'left' the game, even being down multiple buy-ins. When do I quit a game is usually when I don't have fun (and in our game, hardly ever happens), but my rule at a casino is usually if I lose 3 buy-ins (typically I realize I am not playing well/running well...but there is always entertainment to be had).

Regarding the cheating: I stopped playing in raked games almost a decade ago as there is always some sort of drama or shenanigan in those games (not to mention legal/licensing issues with raids, etc.). And at high stake levels, cheating can never be ruled out (personally, I suspect it happens a lot more than people think).

We had a major incident in NYC recently at a game where one of our players played a few times. It involved special lenses/glasses, marked cards, and gaining the trust of the host He is a competent/winning player, but kept saying 'I don't know how I am losing at this game all the time'...but kept going back because it was action-packed with lots of big pots all night long. A year later we found out the game was rigged. We heard the group of unsuspecting businessmen lost between $350K-500K by 3 individuals/players and the host wasn't involved, but can't be sure. Apparently they had done this before at other games around town (and other places as well)

Jennifer Shahade interviewed May Siu, a pro/semi pro player who also played in that game, and she details the cheat in this podcast (I think starts after the 12th minute mark): https://thepokergrid.com/2021/05/01/the-grid-055-ft-may-siu-pocket-jacks/
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Oh wow that's your game here in NYC? Very interesting! I listened to Shahade's podcast a few weeks back, was a good segment. Would love to sit down at your guys game one day if I could afford the buyin lol
 
Windwalker said:
Yep. But that’s a very very easy card mechanic move, one of the first ones they teach you, to cut a deck at a particular spot. There are a bunch of videos where Ricky Jay demonstrates those techniques on YouTube. This one is my favorite.

Click to expand...
YouTube has a .25x playback feature that can expose most sleight of hand. I slowed it down and expected to either see just a bunch of false shuffles/cuts. Or a bunch of perfect riffles (8x perfect riffles gets u back to box order with 52 cards, not sure the # for 47). No...the box cut was real, and the shuffles weren’t perfect. He managed to mechanic the entire deck order, with only a couple quick shuffle peeks, what the absolute fuck
 
Wow @Windwalker what a terrible situation to be caught in the middle of.
Thanks for sharing and I hope it all works out for you in the end, whatever that outcome might be.
 

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