Who plays triple draw? Play this one with me. (2 Viewers)

[JustinInMN]

10/20 limit mix live casino cash game.

2-7 triple draw, 6 handed.

(This is Minnesota so 5 bets are permitted on each round instead of 4.)

Table is mostly loose passive except for villian on the button (utg + 3, EDIT, not the cutoff as originally stated) who is very aggressive.

Hero is utg and dealt 9-8-7-6-2 and is utg + 1. Utg folds, action?

I will update this afternoon.

 

[Legend5555]

Am I permitted to vomit right now? Because I don't like any of our options. A pat 9 isn't favored over a 1 card draw over 3 draws. I think it's a favorite over one player drawing one card twice. But obviously, you are blocking some good cards for yourself on later draws and you could be out of position. I don't have a ton of experience in triple draw, but I'd say raise with the intention of to draw two to the 7 or one to the 8.

 

[Kain8]

I'd either stand pat or draw to the 8 7. Drawing two to the seven just seems too tall of an order.

I'd raise and chuck the 9 on the draw.

 

[DrStrange]

It would help to know how the field is playing. Is this a table of regular 2 - 7 players or is this a mixed games table where some folks don't have a ton of 2- 7 experience? How many games make up the mix? Are there tourists playing?

Hero's position is a bit unclear. Blinds in some mixed games might not be a traditional small blind / big blind. There might be a button blind or a single blind. Let's just assume Hero is in seat four of six seats - SB, BB, folded UTG, Hero, CO and button.

Position matters more in triple draw than in most other games. Not only do you get to see the betting action preceding you, you also get to see how everyone is drawing. There is huge value in knowing how many cards everyone else draws in deciding on which sort of hand to draw to and on the last draw deciding to pat on a weak pat hand.

I think Hero has three options, fold, raise with a pat hand or raise and draw two to 7-6-2. 8-7-6-2 is not worthy as a drawing hand < 8-6-3-2 would be a far better one card drawing hand. > My choice would be raise and draw two to 7-6-2. My rule of thumb is any three card hand 7-X-2 is playable for a raise.

If Hero held the button and saw a limp pot headed his way, maybe a pat 9-8-7-6-2 would be better than drawing two. This is essentially the worst possible "nine" hand. Good for stealing the blinds or fighting a single drawing hand. 7-6-2 is drawing to the second, third and fourth nut hand. It often will make a bad "eight"

Do not pay to draw three cards in 2-7 triple draw.

I am glad to see other games being discussed in a strategy thread, thank you

DrStrange

 

[JustinInMN]

It would help to know how the field is playing. Is this a table of regular 2 - 7 players or is this a mixed games table where some folks don't have a ton of 2- 7 experience? How many games make up the mix? Are there tourists playing?

This game certainly attracts regs more than tourists, but ones that are more on the gamble side than studied players. The exception being the villian I singles out as being aggressive. I have seen this particular player in the game more than anyone.

Hero's position is a bit unclear. Blinds in some mixed games might not be a traditional small blind / big blind. There might be a button blind or a single blind. Let's just assume Hero is in seat four of six seats - SB, BB, folded UTG, Hero, CO and button.

Your assumption is correct. The button is two positions to heros left, utg is to hero's right. Draw games are played with the same structure as hold'em games in this room. Small and big blind to the left of the button.

******
IMPORTANT AMENDMENT

The more I am thinking about it, the more I think the villian I singled out as aggressive is the actual button in this hand, not the cutoff as I originally said. There was definitely a person in between and definitely a person before hero. I will amend the original post.
******

The only difference is in 2-7 only 6 players are dealt in even though 8 are seated. Up to two players to the left of the BB are dealt out, but I suppose that's a point of trivia since we have already established this is a six handed deal. .

For the record this is a mixed game, the rotation is badugi, big-o, stud-8, 2-7, o8.

 

[JustinInMN]

Okay, I am going to move the action along here. I think the raise is pretty clear at this point, but I do appreciate the different intentions on the draw, we will consider that decision next.

Hero raises, cutoff folds, Button (aggro villian) calls, small blind calls, big blind calls.

Four players take draw 1.
Small Blind draws 3,
Big Blind draws 2,
Hero?
(Button villian draws after hero)

I will continue in a few hours.

 

[Hornet]

I’d stand pat on this one.

 

[Rhodeman77]

With someone in front of you only drawing 1 I am busting this hand up and drawing 2 now. If the 2 players in from had drawn 2 or more lol I can see standing pat this round to see what they draw next round.

 

[Hornet]

With someone in front of you only drawing 1 I am busting this hand up and drawing 2 now. If the 2 players in from had drawn 2 or more lol I can see standing pat this round to see if the draw still next round.

The two players in front drew 3 and 2, right? That’s why I thought stand pat.

 

[FDLmold]

Button did not raise. Blinds limped and drew a lot of cards. We have many options. I like standing pat, then evaluating if we need more cards on draw two.

 

[JustinInMN]

I will add this about the blinds and the table in general. Defending the blinds and drawing 3 is not that uncommon. This particular small blind is very loose passive. (Plays 50%+ hands in the Omaha games, like 80% to 4th Street in stud.)

Hero may have even called and drawn four to a deuce in a 5 way pot from the big blind earlier in the session .

 

[DrStrange]

Patting a 9-8-7-6-2 is a play for a two handed or perhaps three handed game. It now seems likely there will be three drawing hands taking all three draws. Maybe the rough nine will hold up. Likely not. I like drawing to the 7-6-2 and hope to make a great hand vs praying the nine is best at the end

 

[Anthony Martino]

I'm with the doc on this one, raise pre and draw to the 7. Given the action when it gets to you, I still prefer to draw to the 7. You have an opponent drawing 1 card. With three draws in this game I don't like our chances of holding onto a bad 9 and praying everyone whiffs, or drawing to a bad 8 and praying we get there AND it's good.

Draw 2 and let's see how the action proceeds.

 

[BGinGA]

Nobody is drawing 1 card (except maybe the button, who hasn't acted yet). Four players are in the first draw, with SB taking 3, BB taking 2, and action on hero with Button to follow.

I stand pat and evaluate after button draws and the betting round.

 

[JustinInMN]

Lots of interesting comments here. We will go on with the story to the next decision, and then I will make one more update a few hours later.

Hero pretty much figured what @BGinGA is saying and raps pat. Hero assumes button is 3 betting pat hands before the draw so worst case scenario is button is drawing one and may have some two card draws as well if lucky. (Perhaps button villian will even change some one card draws to two card draws in response to hero going pat.)

Button in fact does draw just one.

Next action:
Small blind checks, big blind checks, hero?

 

[DrStrange]

Once Hero starts down the path of a pat hand he can't get off. Bet and represent a good hand. If Hero ever shows weakness a good villain will put him to the test later in the hand.

Hero calls one bet should he get raised but folds to more aggression. A fold might be best here, I'd need to think about that for a bit.

If raised, Hero should break down to a 7-6-2. Folding to the next bet should Hero miss both cards.

 

[Anthony Martino]

If you've decided to stay pat you need to keep betting here

 

[BGinGA]

Hero pretty much figured what @BGinGA is saying and raps pat. Hero assumes button is 3 betting pat hands before the draw so worst case scenario is button is drawing one and may have some two card draws as well if lucky. (Perhaps button villian will even change some one card draws to two card draws in response to hero going pat.)

Button in fact does draw just one.

Next action:
Small blind checks, big blind checks, hero?

Definitely bet, and with displayed confidence.

 

[Hornet]

Definitely bet, and with displayed confidence.

Agreed ... looking at the button like this will help.

 

[Rhodeman77]

I mis-read the post. Lack of sleep yet again catching up to me!

 

[JustinInMN]

I mis-read the post. Lack of sleep yet again catching up to me!

Winning ain't easy.

 

[JustinInMN]

Okay so I think the bet here is pretty obvious and the next few actions I think are obvious as well, so we are going to skip ahead to what I think is a more interesting decision.

Hero bets, villian calls, small blind folds, big blind folds.

5 big bets in the pot, two players to second draw.

Hero stays pat, villian draws one.

Next action, hero bets, villian raises, hero?

(This is basically the triple draw version of my theory that the majority of strategy threads come down to some villian raising the turn. )

 

[JustinInMN]

I will continue the narrative tomorrow, leave your comments tonight.

 

[Anthony Martino]

5 big bets in the pot, two players to second draw.

Hero stays pat, villian draws one.

Next action, hero bets, villian raises, hero?

(This is basically the triple draw version of my theory that the majority of strategy threads come down to some villian raising the turn. )

With only 1 draw left I don't think drawing 2 here is the right play

Reraise the "aggressive" Villain and stand pat, try to get him to break a hand that is ahead of yours with only 1 draw left

 

[DrStrange]

I like that line @Anthony Martino It is filled with variance and depends on the villain read. Plenty of passive players where this is a bad line for sure.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

I’d have drawn two. As played, call and plan to check call the river.

 

[honkydevil]

For the record this is a mixed game, the rotation is badugi, big-o, stud-8, 2-7, o8.

I apparently need to make the trip down to Canterbury lol

 

[JustinInMN]

I apparently need to make the trip down to Canterbury lol

Most Fridays the 10/20 mix goes .

 

[Legend5555]

With no info on how villain plays certain hands, this is an annoying spot. Does villain ever raise convertible Jacks or tens in pos? Since hero will draw first, does calling and patting ever induce villain to break a convertible without having to 3 bet turn? If we call, we are pretty much committed to patting and calling down I think.

Our hand just can't improve that much at this point, and breaking only helps us to win against a better 9. And we already lose to most 8s even if we improve to an 8.

 

[DrStrange]

Villain's play is solid gold here <assuming villain knows enough about Hero>. We don't know if it was intended, but it is exactly what a skilled villain would do with position holding a wide range of made hands facing a Hero who might pat a wide range of hands.

He gets a read on how strong Hero's pat hand is.

If Hero flats and draws one, villain can pat a good jack or better. If Hero draws two, villain can pat with a king.

If Hero raps pat but doesn't 3-bet, then villain can draw to 8-6 or better. He might pat even a weak made hand - say a good nine.

If Hero 3-bets and raps pat then villain might need to draw for better than an 8-6 and if that wasn't possible then perhaps even fold, though I would expect many villains to bluff catch this deep into a hand.

The less skilled villain is, the more likely Hero is in trouble. Fancy plays only work vs the better players who are often themselves are making fancy plays. The villain read is everything here. Hero doesn't need to be precise, just know that villain is skilled and aggressive.