Why I think NL hold em has hurt the poker scene (3 Viewers)

[Schmendr1ck]

Correlation does not imply causation.

I believe the main reason many poker rooms have closed or shrunk in recent years is simply because slot machines and table games make more profit per square foot for the house.

Yes, demand for poker has tapered off since the post-2003 heyday, and that's likely also a factor. But you can put eight slot machines in the same floor space needed for a single poker table. Those machines pull in a lot more than the $150/hr rake of a poker table, and you're not paying a full time dealer to sit there and run the slots.

 

[APatHand]

I believe the main reason many poker rooms have closed or shrunk in recent years is simply because slot machines and table games make more profit per square foot for the house.

Yes, demand for poker has tapered off since the post-2003 heyday, and that's likely also a factor. But you can put eight slot machines in the same floor space needed for a single poker table. Those machines pull in a lot more than the $150/hr rake of a poker table, and you're not paying a full time dealer to sit there and run the slots.

This is/was the widely accepted explanation for the contraction in the number of poker rooms/tables in the late 90's/early 2000's, coupled with corporate takeovers in the casino industry and the growth of casino mega-resorts adding in the mid-90's.

 

[trever]

I can assure you , that limit stud is NOT a unprofitable game . I made a living on $25-50 stud back in the 1990s. So I am living proof that your conjectures are false. Sorry.

No, you are proof of my second point. My third point, which you quoted, describes why casual players don't want to play with you.

 

[ando5k]

The day that online gaming become legal, and that day is coming soon, is the day poker is the biggest thing in the world. Especially now with mobile devices. Hope you have about 20k in your bankroll when that day comes because you will absolutely crush $1-2 with all the new blood.

As for rake increases, you can look at it two ways. 1. If you are a serious player, you have to look at rake as a job expense, like driving to work. The cost of gas is going to go up over time and so is the rake. 2. If you are a rec player, rake is nothing more than a movie ticket or something like that. Its the cost of entertainment. I think worse than rake increases are the fact that they are raking jackpot type high hands and bad beat jackpots. Why should that get taken out of the pot? You want to attract people to your card room? Don't do it with my money.

 

[TheOctagon]

You just have some information that we don’t. The DOJ just reaffirmed its stance on the Wire Act of 1961 putting online gambling on the national level in a bit of a pickle. Poker is legal online in states that allow online gaming through their established brick and mortar business (NV, NJ, I think MD... don’t quote me), but full liquidity across state lines is once again in jeopardy.

I don’t doubt it will happen, I dispute your assertion that it will happen soon.

 

[TheOctagon]

Also, it’s worth reminding folks that the reason online gaming is prohibited is not because the act of gambling online is illegal (except in WA), but that taking transactions intended for digital gambling purposes in unregulated markets is prohibited by the UIGEA of 2006.

 

[ando5k]

They have already figured out how they are going to regulate it, basically with use tax just like what Amazon gets hit with. The only issue is how does the feds get a cut without a federal sales tax.

 

[Rhodeman77]

Poker players can’t handle 1 day of not playing it seems. Yesterday there was never more than 6 tables going. Today every table is in being used lol. No special promotion going on either, just addicts jonesing to play.

 

[honkydevil]

Poker players can’t handle 1 day of not playing it seems. Yesterday there was never more than 6 tables going. Today every table is in being used lol. No special promotion going on either, just addicts jonesing to play.

View attachment 307303

5 tables of 1/2(5) PLO eh? Maybe I should head to Cleveland instead of Vegas lol

 

[SixSpeedFury]

Stud games going on at Borgata right now, so....

 

[SixSpeedFury]

Definitely an axe to grind against NL. Also, if you're pissed at NL, you're sure to blow a gasket at this new fandangled thing called short deck poker....

 

[TheOctagon]

Maybe I’ll roll up and get some stud action in today at Borgata...

 

[bostonjoe617]

Sounds like a bunch of grumpy old men reminiscing about the good ol days before these young whipper snappers ruined their fun with this raskily nl holdem game!it's the devil I tell ya!

 

[ekricket]

The lottery changed their system to ensure jackpots were harder to hit, which resulted in bigger prize pools, which resulted in more people playing, which resulted in bigger prize pools.

Look, I'm no fan of a lot of things that happen with casinos and poker rooms. I've stopped playing a lot of local tournaments (I have four rooms close by in the Tampa area) because every motherfucker is spreading unlimited rebuys for 9-11 levels, it's just ridiculous to me. I prefer freezeouts, so I'm voting with my wallet and not participating.

And while I love fixed-limit mixed-games, there's only a little of that available in my area, and usually on a schedule that doesn't fit in with my work schedule.

I can't be mad NL Hold Em, there's plenty of money to be made playing it, and I enjoy it as well. And the rooms are going to spread what people want to play. If enough people come together and want a game of 7-card stud, it'll get spread.

I also can't stand the amount of additional "rake" that comes out of bad beat prize pools (oh, we have to take an administrative fee out of this for sitting on hundreds of thousands of your dollars for months), or how some rooms will award tickets into other tournaments for high hands, first five flushes, etc. during their weekly tournies (and in the process take 25% of the frigging prize pool out in doing so!)

But guess what? Enough idiots put up with it, so the rooms keep doing it. Vote with your wallets and if enough people do that, it forces them to change.

If enough people vote with their wallets like this then they won’t have any business and they will close/not build poker rooms. If poker doesn’t pay they won’t spread it. They got other ways to make money.

 

[Lil Tuna]

Sounds like a bunch of grumpy old men reminiscing about the good ol days before these young whipper snappers ruined their fun with this raskily nl holdem game!it's the devil I tell ya!

Real Card players play $10-$20 Stud 8.
Actually, Good card players are proficient in all disciplines of the game. I’ve sent many a young whipper snappers to the rail playing NLHE.

 

[bostonjoe617]

Real Card players play $10-$20 Stud 8.
Actually, Good card players are proficient in all disciplines of the game. I’ve sent many a young whipper snappers to the rail playing NLHE.

I would have to disagree...you can be good at cards but not even know how to play half the other forms of poker or other games..just because your not proficient in every game doesn't make you a bad card player.

 

[Rhodeman77]

I would have to disagree...you can be good at cards but not even know how to play half the other forms of poker or other games..just because your not proficient in every game doesn't make you a bad card player.

Being proficient in many forms of poker makes a lot of sense. You never know what will be the new hot game and being ahead of the learning curve will make you much more profitable. I was playing PLO & PLO8 years before the vast majority of people in my area. Now it is the biggest game spread on a daily basis in the local casino. My experience and knowledge has made me a lot of money at it.

Short deck Hold’em is very popular at the high stakes game is Asia. Learning the odds and strategies now could pay huge dividends later on.

More money is made from your opponents mistakes than your great play. With all the information on Hold’em the gap between the really good players and average players keeps shrinking. But when a new game comes along the gap is huge!! And that equates to much more profit.

So I will continue to learn and study the subtleties of as many forms of poker as I can.

 

[Lil Tuna]

I would have to disagree...you can be good at cards but not even know how to play half the other forms of poker or other games..just because your not proficient in every game doesn't make you a bad card player.

I’ve got a rotation game at my place first Saturday of every month. Anytime you want a seat, just let me know.

 

[NotABot]

I always try to play both. Keep sharp and it’s really a whole different game

 

[tabletalker7]

Those people wondering why poker rooms are dying - it has nothing to do with no limit hold'em. It has everything to do with the players that play in the casino. I was a part of a regular group (2 minivans full) of guys who would go about 45 minutes away to get to a poker room. I am the only one left who will still go, and I don't blame the others for not going. I read a few times in this post about opening bets around $20 on a 1-2 table. The other guys were not comfortable with that happening, and the poker room we went to every Friday evening had 20 tables of that going and every table had two or three regulars of the poker room doing that every hand at every table! Remember guys, you can shear a sheep many times, but only skin it once.

 

[BGinGA]

Those people wondering why poker rooms are dying - it has nothing to do with no limit hold'em. It has everything to do with the players that play in the casino. I was a part of a regular group (2 minivans full) of guys who would go about 45 minutes away to get to a poker room. I am the only one left who will still go, and I don't blame the others for not going. I read a few times in this post about opening bets around $20 on a 1-2 table. The other guys were not comfortable with that happening, and the poker room we went to every Friday evening had 20 tables of that going and every table had two or three regulars of the poker room doing that every hand at every table! Remember guys, you can shear a sheep many times, but only skin it once.

Actually, even your example shows why it has *everything* to do with 'no-limit' hold'em. You wont find regulars making opening raises to $20 at a fixed-limit or even a pot-limit table. The game rules allow -- and in many cases dictate -- the actions of the players.

 

[Poker Zombie]

No limit + super aggro players = bad game.

Still, there are plrnty of NL games out there, and relatively very few limit games. Some people wanna gambol, and swing for the fences. They could never do that in limit. The same thing that is good for the game is the same thing that is bad for the game.

In the end, the only chokehold on poker is the US Republican party, that capitulated to Sheldon Adelson's demand that online poker be banned.

 

[tabletalker7]

Actually, even your example shows why it has *everything* to do with 'no-limit' hold'em. You wont find regulars making opening raises to $20 at a fixed-limit or even a pot-limit table. The game rules allow -- and in many cases dictate -- the actions of the players.

From someone who frequents the poker rooms around me, IT IS THE REGULARS who are doing that. It was such a great day on Wednesday for me to be in a poker room on a table full of newer people at the poker room I was at. I think once or twice someone opened at $12, but they had aces so I am not blaming them.

 

[Legend5555]

I like a lot of games, including NLHE. But this thread is really just nothing more than, "My thing went away and I don't like it!" I'm sorry. That sucks. But it's a good thing there is a community of people out there that still want to play non-NLHE games. I think you need to ask what is your primary reason for playing poker. Is it to make money? Because if so, you should learn to play whatever is the most popular because that is where the money will be. If it's just to have fun, then as long as you find ways to play the games you want, what does it matter?

 

[Mojo1312]

Actually, even your example shows why it has *everything* to do with 'no-limit' hold'em. You wont find regulars making opening raises to $20 at a fixed-limit or even a pot-limit table. The game rules allow -- and in many cases dictate -- the actions of the players.

Until you play $2/$5 PL. Which proves your last statement.