Also if this guy is spazzing this hard with a hand like J10xx or KKQx no hearts, then he will do it again in hand that we have much better control in. Why take the chance when a lot of his range is value at this point?
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1/2/5 PLO hand at Tampa Greyhound (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Anthony Martino
- Start date
Kain8
Flush
Barftastic turn. Highly unlikely you'll get paid on a river bet if the board does pair now. Cut your losses and fold up shop.
I guess I would base much of my decision at this point on a player read. All we know is that villain is a “mediocre reg” ... how aggressive is he? Playing 3-handed, I still think we fare pretty well against his range and our hand value is well disguised.
“Casino Regs” that aren’t also described as Aggro, maniac, LAG as well usually check when the nuts on the board change unless they were betting that draw. The only other hand they would still bet pot with is top set since only one straight came in (on the low end) and he plans to see the river no matter what since they can still fill up if they are now behind the straight, especially if he picked up the flush draw.
In fact when I was in Columbus a few weeks ago I had a very similar hand play out where I was the Villain with top set, bet the flop, got called, the low end straight came in but I also picked up the flush draw to go with my set. So I bet the turn too and was raised by the guy that hit the straight. I called and filled up on the river for a $2500 pot.
If hero only calls here he never has a straight and any thinking Villain should know that and will jam all rivers that don’t pair the board as it looks like Hero may have a set or top 2 pair at this point.
In fact when I was in Columbus a few weeks ago I had a very similar hand play out where I was the Villain with top set, bet the flop, got called, the low end straight came in but I also picked up the flush draw to go with my set. So I bet the turn too and was raised by the guy that hit the straight. I called and filled up on the river for a $2500 pot.
If hero only calls here he never has a straight and any thinking Villain should know that and will jam all rivers that don’t pair the board as it looks like Hero may have a set or top 2 pair at this point.
OP
OP
Anthony Martino
Royal Flush
Heros hand may look like a KQ type holding. Heck, villain could still fire AAKQ here as well
OP
OP
Anthony Martino
Royal Flush
Villain 1 raises to $20, Villain 2 calls $20, Hero is button on mandatory $5 straddle with:
$15 more to Hero, Hero calls
Hero doesn't feel his hand is strong enough if repopped
Flop
Villain 1 bets $65, Villain 2 folds, Hero opts to call
Hero realizes this rainbow board is good for his hand and he has some straight blockers.
But Villain can have JJ in his range or wraps that have decent equity and we are pretty deep.
Hero prefers to keep the pot manageable and having position on Villain is useful here as well
Turn
Villain bets $195
Hero calls
River
Villain insta-fires $585, Hero?
$15 more to Hero, Hero calls
Hero doesn't feel his hand is strong enough if repopped
Flop
Villain 1 bets $65, Villain 2 folds, Hero opts to call
Hero realizes this rainbow board is good for his hand and he has some straight blockers.
But Villain can have JJ in his range or wraps that have decent equity and we are pretty deep.
Hero prefers to keep the pot manageable and having position on Villain is useful here as well
Turn
Villain bets $195
Hero calls
River
Villain insta-fires $585, Hero?
Villain 1 raises to $20, Villain 2 calls $20, Hero is button on mandatory $5 straddle with:
$15 more to Hero, Hero calls
Hero doesn't feel his hand is strong enough if repopped
Flop
Villain 1 bets $65, Villain 2 folds, Hero opts to call
Hero realizes this rainbow board is good for his hand and he has some straight blockers.
But Villain can have JJ in his range or wraps that have decent equity and we are pretty deep.
Hero prefers to keep the pot manageable and having position on Villain is useful here as well
Turn
Villain bets $195
Hero calls
River
Villain insta-fires $585, Hero?
His range of monster hands that can confidently bet each street is getting very small now that the nuts changed yet again with the flush coming in.
Usually in this case it is a bluff hand but he could have been betting AKKQ with hearts the whole way or something similar.
It is a puke call or puke fold. I prefer to avoid these coin flip spots by folding the turn while we have very little invested in the pot and now have a bluff catcher as a hand.
Yeah. This is gross. Just order like six orders of wings and get fat over this hand....
.
OP
OP
Anthony Martino
Royal Flush
We play 2/5/10 at Hard Rock where the $10 is a mandatory "rock" straddle posted by the winner of the previous hand. While the 1/2/5 game at Lucky's is a mandatory $5 button straddle with unlimited restraddles permitted.
It just creates more action and bigger pots, imo. The Hard Rock has been getting a 1/2 going more regularly lately as well, but it's just 1/2 with a max $300 buyin and optional straddle to only $4 permitted (with the button getting preference if they wish)
OP
OP
Anthony Martino
Royal Flush
Villain 1 raises to $20, Villain 2 calls $20, Hero is button on mandatory $5 straddle with:
$15 more to Hero, Hero calls
Hero doesn't feel his hand is strong enough if repopped
Flop
Villain 1 bets $65, Villain 2 folds, Hero opts to call
Hero realizes this rainbow board is good for his hand and he has some straight blockers.
But Villain can have JJ in his range or wraps that have decent equity and we are pretty deep.
Hero prefers to keep the pot manageable and having position on Villain is useful here as well
Turn
Villain bets $195
Hero calls
River
Villain insta-fires $585, Hero takes a few minutes to work through the hand. Villain has not slowed down, which is alarming. But at the same time, what the fuck is he repping on the river?
I think my own hand could be viewed by Villain as a whiffed draw, or a two pair or set that got sticky. The issue here is that the nuts has changed on every street and Villain has kept potting it, which as was stated previously, really reduces the holdings he could have that could apply that sort of pressure on each street.
To top that off, Villains river bet is huge, and I don't think I've given the indication I have the hand strength to call that sort of river bet, given how I played the hand.
So at that point I figure it's possible Villain could be going with the naked ace bluff on the river, he might've held
KQx and wants to keep up the pressure and get me to fold a winner. Ultimately I felt like his river bet was very polarized, it's either the nuts or it's a bluff, it's hard for him to make this play with a set of Jacks, or perhaps even a straight, he'd be more inclined to bluff-catch me by check-calling if he felt he had showdown value out of position here.
I wound up making the call. Will reveal Villains hand tomorrow morning, but feel free to put up your ONE best guess. I'll ship a $5 Hard Rock "Elvis Piano" chip if someone guesses Villains exact holding here (including suits). Only one guess per member, if your guess post has been edited it will be voided, good luck!
$15 more to Hero, Hero calls
Hero doesn't feel his hand is strong enough if repopped
Flop
Villain 1 bets $65, Villain 2 folds, Hero opts to call
Hero realizes this rainbow board is good for his hand and he has some straight blockers.
But Villain can have JJ in his range or wraps that have decent equity and we are pretty deep.
Hero prefers to keep the pot manageable and having position on Villain is useful here as well
Turn
Villain bets $195
Hero calls
River
Villain insta-fires $585, Hero takes a few minutes to work through the hand. Villain has not slowed down, which is alarming. But at the same time, what the fuck is he repping on the river?
I think my own hand could be viewed by Villain as a whiffed draw, or a two pair or set that got sticky. The issue here is that the nuts has changed on every street and Villain has kept potting it, which as was stated previously, really reduces the holdings he could have that could apply that sort of pressure on each street.
To top that off, Villains river bet is huge, and I don't think I've given the indication I have the hand strength to call that sort of river bet, given how I played the hand.
So at that point I figure it's possible Villain could be going with the naked ace bluff on the river, he might've held
KQx and wants to keep up the pressure and get me to fold a winner. Ultimately I felt like his river bet was very polarized, it's either the nuts or it's a bluff, it's hard for him to make this play with a set of Jacks, or perhaps even a straight, he'd be more inclined to bluff-catch me by check-calling if he felt he had showdown value out of position here.I wound up making the call. Will reveal Villains hand tomorrow morning, but feel free to put up your ONE best guess. I'll ship a $5 Hard Rock "Elvis Piano" chip if someone guesses Villains exact holding here (including suits). Only one guess per member, if your guess post has been edited it will be voided, good luck!
gopherblue
Straight Flush
What was Villain’s exact holding?
”Sorry, John, I don’t remember.”
A♡,Q◇,J♧,10♧
LotsOfChips
Flush
From the pessimist view, it allows the casino to charge more rake from a nominally 1/2 game.
I must be missing the same thing as @liftapint. Why not just call it 2/5, that way everyone knows what the stakes are.
OP
OP
Anthony Martino
Royal Flush
Because the blinds you post are still 1/2
Until I read @Anthony Martino response I thought the game may actually play smaller than a true $2/5 game since the straddle is on the button that their wouldn’t be any other straddles possible. Thus capping the amount put in blind. Where a true $2/5 game would allow a straddle to $10 (or more)
How do additional straddles work as far as who acts when? I would think it can get very confusing and annoying.
LotsOfChips
Flush
Ok, let me rephrase - why not just spread 2/5, that way everyone knows what the stakes are (and the BB still has last action preflop)
OP
OP
Anthony Martino
Royal Flush
I dunno, games existed like this before I started playing.
The 1/2/5 game at Luckys allows unlimited restraddles so if you get the right cast of characters you'll see guys buying in for 200-400 and restraddling to 10, 20, 40, 80!
Some of them are just degens looking for a rush and wanting to win a 4 way all-in
But the guys who gamble like that all want to run it twice, and if I come along I only go once
The 1/2/5 game at Luckys allows unlimited restraddles so if you get the right cast of characters you'll see guys buying in for 200-400 and restraddling to 10, 20, 40, 80!
Some of them are just degens looking for a rush and wanting to win a 4 way all-in
But the guys who gamble like that all want to run it twice, and if I come along I only go once
Sparty
Flush
OP
OP
Anthony Martino
Royal Flush
I don't believe I've ever seen anyone confused as to what the stakes are in this game
The BB is allowed to restraddle and could be last to act in that instance, unless someone else restraddles on top of that
FDLmold
Royal Flush
Villain had
LotsOfChips
Flush
I guess maybe if the SB re-straddles (assuming Button straddle) it allows the BB to also re-straddle? (and then allows additional re-straddles from UTG, UTG +1, UTG +2, ad nauseum)How the F can the BB straddle? That is stupid!
Personally I think straddles in general are stupid, and mandatory straddles are even more so. But my casino experience is pretty much non-existent, so maybe there is some redeeming feature that I'm not aware of. Why not just double the bet in the dark if you want to juice the pot without knowing what your cards are?
I also don't get exactly how a Button straddle works . With UTG straddle, the action follows pretty much as if UTG makes a min raise, except the final action comes back to him if everyone limps or folds. But with a Button straddle, does the SB now have first action, or does UTG? (The Internet shows both as common options). If the former, it seems to make SB/BB even more disadvantaged, as you have to put money in as a blind, then immediately decide whether to put more money in without seeing the rest of the table act (acting first on every street, rather than just post-flop). If the latter, then how does the Button gain anything (last action pre-flop) by straddling, other than juicing the pot without knowing what his/her cards are? (or does the bet pass the Button to SB/BB, then back to the button, then back to any still active players - my mind is starting to explode).
OP
OP
Anthony Martino
Royal Flush
Action is always to the left of the straddle
So if we're in the "rock" game the winner of the previous hand posts the $10 straddle from whatever position they are in. If you're UTG with the rock, then UTG+1 is first to act
Likewise in the 1/2/5 game with a mandatory button straddle, the SB is first to act
Generally it can be favorable to restraddle to $10 from the CO to force the button to act first and try to gain a positional advantage post-flop, but the gamblers will just restraddle on their short buyin from the blinds and get to act last, get a bunch of callers for $20 and then just shove it in, trying to win uncontested or get it headsup with dead money in the pot
I rarely restraddle in the game, but if I do it's from the CO for $10. I'm not the guy putting the $80 4th restraddle in
So if we're in the "rock" game the winner of the previous hand posts the $10 straddle from whatever position they are in. If you're UTG with the rock, then UTG+1 is first to act
Likewise in the 1/2/5 game with a mandatory button straddle, the SB is first to act
Generally it can be favorable to restraddle to $10 from the CO to force the button to act first and try to gain a positional advantage post-flop, but the gamblers will just restraddle on their short buyin from the blinds and get to act last, get a bunch of callers for $20 and then just shove it in, trying to win uncontested or get it headsup with dead money in the pot
I rarely restraddle in the game, but if I do it's from the CO for $10. I'm not the guy putting the $80 4th restraddle in
OP
OP
Anthony Martino
Royal Flush
Villain turned over:
and had a hand that made perfect sense for his actions on all three streets.
I relearned the "people don't bluff nearly as much as you think" lesson on this session
Despite this hit, getting it all-in with
against 
and seeing theboard run out K9X...X...T to river me, AND flopping the king high flush and running into the Ace high flush of a guy who was willing to overplay 8 high flushes, I managed to leave this session down only $775
People were losing their minds playing so bad. Two guys got all-in on the flop with weak straight draws on a flush draw board that neither of them blocked.
Even the nittiest player I know got it in three ways pre with
lol. The game is so good!
and had a hand that made perfect sense for his actions on all three streets.I relearned the "people don't bluff nearly as much as you think" lesson on this session
Despite this hit, getting it all-in with
against and seeing theboard run out K9X...X...T to river me, AND flopping the king high flush and running into the Ace high flush of a guy who was willing to overplay 8 high flushes, I managed to leave this session down only $775People were losing their minds playing so bad. Two guys got all-in on the flop with weak straight draws on a flush draw board that neither of them blocked.
Even the nittiest player I know got it in three ways pre with
lol. The game is so good!Create an account or login to comment
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