$125 NL Tourney Hand??? (2 Viewers)

[shorticus]

Unfortunately, I'm starting to agree with @Legend5555 and the majority that calling may have not the best move, but because I'm not sold on moving all in with AQo, I'm not sure that a raise in that spot was the best play either.

In any manner, we are where we are. At this point, I say you have to check. I think it goes without saying that original bettor will bet, especially following 2 checks. If the BB raises here, I fold cause I would then put him on a K.

 

[Steve Birrer]

Well I clearly botched this hand from the get go. I bet $1K post flop. BB called, original raiser called, and button shoved.

So I am looking at getting a pile of chips or going home.

So I called the shove and bb and original raiser both folded. And as you all predicted I faced . I figured correctly that I had the BB and original raiser beat. And I put the button on a couple of hands. Half with a K and half with an A. So I called and went home.

Moral of the story, should have just folded preflop being out of position.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

No you should've jammed pre lol

 

[nitzilla]

Well I clearly botched this hand from the get go.

Here are some recommended light readings then:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IXVMJXE
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WXMP7WY
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SGGC53Q
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SYMHMK9

Edit: Also @1A25R called/nailed it!

 

[Legend5555]

No you should've jammed pre lol

Indeed! A 20+% pickup of your stack with potentially no showdown is huge. And the amount of dead money offsets any flip or worse situation you could be in if you get called.

 

[Legend5555]

Well I clearly botched this hand from the get go. I bet $1K post flop. BB called, original raiser called, and button shoved.

So I am looking at getting a pile of chips or going home.

So I called the shove and bb and original raiser both folded. And as you all predicted I faced . I figured correctly that I had the BB and original raiser beat. And I put the button on a couple of hands. Half with a K and half with an A. So I called and went home.

Moral of the story, should have just folded preflop being out of position.

I'd also say with this action, you can pretty safely fold and keep your 7k in chips.

 

[JustinInMN]

As for the preflop play I don't hate the call. The action doesn't indicate the opponents collectively have a nutty range. Folding just seems too tight.

But the big problem with the call is position sucks which hurts the value when hero improves. The upside to the call is pot control, making it easier to get away on misses.

Shoving feels like a game theory disaster, unless we really think we can get get called by AJ, AT, and KQ, though the upside is this pot is worth winning pre.

I think this hand is actually a pretty good candidate for a 3-bet/fold to shove. Weaker hands that can't call a shove can call a smaller size raise. Hero is setting up about a pot size shove on the flop which would be sound on most boards that improve or most boards that miss villian holdings. It does suck to raise with the intention of folding, but I think it's a valid part of strategy otherwise it's tough to get value only 3 betting strong hands.

So I would say

Raise 2400ish > call > fold > shove. First 3 options run pretty close to me.

Now as played on the flop, I hate leading on this board.

In a 4 way pot kings are all over opponents' range's. If hero is ahead (nobody has a king) he has little need for protection, so unlikely to be outdrawn. Gutshots are probably the biggest threat. Even someone with a lesser ace can't "improve" by spiking their kicker.

Getting 3 streets of value seems pretty difficult from lesser holdings as well. We would almost have to hope someone has exactly AJ or AT.

Furthermore, seems impossible to think anyone with a king will fold to a bet.

Think that's 3 good reasons not to bet. The only value from this hand is to go for one street later or catch bluffs.

Checking this flop seeps pretty clear to me, hero can call if suspecting a bluff, but there is action after checking that would make this an easy fold as well.

 

[Legend5555]

As for the preflop play I don't hate the call. The action doesn't indicate the opponents collectively have a nutty range. Folding just seems too tight.

But the big problem with the call is position sucks which hurts the value when hero improves. The upside to the call is pot control, making it easier to get away on misses.

Shoving feels like a game theory disaster, unless we really think we can get get called by AJ, AT, and KQ, though the upside is this pot is worth winning pre.

I think this hand is actually a pretty good candidate for a 3-bet/fold to shove. Weaker hands that can't call a shove can call a smaller size raise. Hero is setting up about a pot size shove on the flop which would be sound on most boards that improve or most boards that miss villian holdings. It does suck to raise with the intention of folding, but I think it's a valid part of strategy otherwise it's tough to get value only 3 betting strong hands.

So I would say

Raise 2400ish > call > fold > shove. First 3 options run pretty close to me.

Now as played on the flop, I hate leading on this board.

In a 4 way pot kings are all over opponents' range's. If hero is ahead (nobody has a king) he has little need for protection, so unlikely to be outdrawn. Gutshots are probably the biggest threat. Even someone with a lesser ace can't "improve" by spiking their kicker.

Getting 3 streets of value seems pretty difficult from lesser holdings as well. We would almost have to hope someone has exactly AJ or AT.

Furthermore, seems impossible to think anyone with a king will fold to a bet.

Think that's 3 good reasons not to bet. The only value from this hand is to go for one street later or catch bluffs.

Checking this flop seeps pretty clear to me, hero can call if suspecting a bluff, but there is action after checking that would make this an easy fold as well.

GTO disaster in what way? That we don't have any bluffs? Then sure, but jamming here is basically always profitable anyway.

I ran the numbers and assuming we only get called by one of 3 of the people (I discount the button has a calling hand) with a range of JJ+, AK, then we always profit more than 1k in chips. Even if we assume any one of the 4 players left calls with AK or any pair, we still profit. This is a simplification, as I believe the chances of getting called by more than one person are negligibly small.

Now, calling and playing post might be more profitable. But it's way harder to play correctly and realize our equity.

And a small raise to something like 2400 doesn't seem like it's going to get a significant number of folds. And if we raise this size (or to a larger size) we have a little more than a pot sized bet (or less) left and we are out of position on everyone. Are we really just planning to jam when we hit and check fold when we don't hit? Or maybe jam most favorable flops and pray? It's just a really tough situation to want to put yourself in.

 

[NotABot]

I would be jamming here

 

[CB561]

Fold or Shove