A player is now scared to play no limit due to last session. Has this ever happened to anyone else? (1 Viewer)

[BGinGA]

I dunno, I’d 100% rather play fixed limit than playing spread limit or no limit with a cap - I’d rather play a different game than some weird compromise. Of course, I’ve never tried spread limit or no limit with a cap, but they just seem like terrible compromises.

I agree with ya.

Spread limit is basically limit with a "bigger" bet cap, which essentially gets bet the max amount every time -- I've never played anywhere when it wasn't (in a 1/2/5 spread-limit game, for example, every bet made is $5, although it ~could~ be from $2 to $5). It's basically pointless; just raise the limit stakes instead.

Same for pot-limit. Most (all?) PL games have no or very little bet sizing strategy involved; people just bet the maximum (pot). NL games usually play smaller irl than PL for this reason - what is designed to limit the size of the game actually makes it bigger.

No-limit with a cap works to some degree, but I personally find it distasteful. It ~should~ alter betting strategy earlier in the hand to allow meaningful betting later when the cap affects betting size..... but it doesn't. So players end up hog-tied in post-flop betting with bloated pots they can't attack or defend.

Hold'em is best played fixed-limit or no-limit -- but they are very different games.

 

[quintooo]

if this is a fun game with friends, why not just lower the blinds and buy-ins? If pots were usually $3, sounds like the game should play more like 0.05/0.10 with $10-20 buy-in or even 0.05/0.05 with $5-10 buy-in.

 

[LeLe]

I dunno man, seem like you invited gamblers who are giving action by over betting with less than premiums hand.

Most people should be happy with that action

But if you keeping it casual, you can organise and play only with friend and keep the stake lower like 25/50c and below and capped the buyin at $50 and first rebuy at $100 or match half the biggest stack.

 

[XBobdog]

Some of the people I play with with regularly buy-in for small amounts and rebuy when they bust. They loose the ability to push people around with a large stack, but don't have to stress as much about being on the hook for large amounts to stay in a pot.

At least until they win a few and are playing with house money.

 

[Tonysquander]

When I talk with my friend about this, his response:
In a casino you can get up and walk away or go to another table. At home you're forced to stay at that table....then what, twiddle your thumbs all night while people bet insane amounts?

I would tell him no, you don't just twiddle your thumbs and that he should not think his work/education is done on any hand just because he folded. An important part of the game is reading players, seeing hands, etc. That is what he should be studying closely, whether he folds or not, if he really wants to learn the game, how to spot betting patterns, bluffs, calculate odds, see how his folded hand would have turned out, etc. etc.

If he plays conservatively and picks his spots he is also likely to come out ahead against those loose maniacs more often than not. Just my two cents.

 

[SteveEH]

He's been asking me to teach him and help his game so one day he can feel confident at the casino. I've also had to curb my play as I know this is just for fun (I usually play 1/2 and 2/5). I tried to explain to him the dynamics of a table can change with just 1 player but I don't know if he gets it.

These are exactly the types of players professionals want at their table. He needs to understand poker is a fucking grind, and he must adjust his game play accordingly. Here's a scene from Rounders he won't remember:

- Knish, the grindr legend, walks up to Mike and the law students.
- Mike's GF: "Knish, how are you?"
- Knish replies: "The same."

That aside, do we want to endure a boring grind at our home games because we want to maximize our profits, or do we want to have fun? If we want to have fun, and the game has been going well until the two one-off degens showed up, don't invite them back and better vet your new players.

 

[trever]

If we want to have fun, and the game has been going well until the two one-off degens showed up, don't invite them back and better vet your new players.

Pretty much this. You need to get a compatible player pool together if you want the game to last. Personally, I love playing vs the wild players, they run over me like a possum on the highway, but it makes for an interesting evening. YMMV

 

[mburnznj]

Love the responses from everyone and thanks for the input. I agree with everything, but then again we all see it from the poker side of things. Personally I didn't mind them being there in that if they wanted to throw money at the table...I wanted in.

Still at work so this is short but another guy responded that he too wants to try limit next session.....good grief.

 

[Machine]

Pot Limit Hold'em is a thing, but Pot Limit Omaha is a blast.

 

[EmptyPocs]

ok I skimmed a bit so do not know if it was suggested
alternate limit / nl every 10 hands (or dealer rounds)?
your bud will crush the NL players in limit (hopefully) and then he will learn NL eventually

 

[toothpic]

Love the responses from everyone and thanks for the input. I agree with everything, but then again we all see it from the poker side of things. Personally I didn't mind them being there in that if they wanted to throw money at the table...I wanted in.

Still at work so this is short but another guy responded that he too wants to try limit next session.....good grief.

I used to carry 500 chips for my cash set.
1 rack fracs
160 - 1s
2 racks 5s
2 barrels 25s.

One of our home games we invite a few new player who were extremely splashy. Instead of standard raises to $1.50 or $2, they would do $5 - $25 in a 0.25/0.50 game and we nearly ran out of chips for the bank. After the game the feedback was split like yours.

Some of us thought it was really fun, others said the game was too big and they weren't comfortable. Really it's a difference of just wanting to play for fun and then those who really wanted to play poker.

 

[upNdown]

Really it's a difference of just wanting to play for fun and then those who really wanted to play poker.

Plus a third - guys uncomfortable with the stakes.
A guy could love playing poker - could even love playing no limit, but be at the very ceiling of his comfort level with the stakes at the quieter tamer .25/.50 game. Maybe a guy who would do better at .25/.25, but he was doing fine. Then you bring in these wildcards, and suddenly the game is playing two to three times as big, and that is a very different thing.
I don’t know if a host can or should try to vet out those kinds of players. That’s no limit - eventually you’ll get all types.

 

[Welshman]

I played in a cash game from about 2003 until it ended in around 2016. We had a solid core of about 6 players that played pretty much every week, and had 8 or 10 that would play every once in awhile.
We started at .5/.10 and eventually transitioned to .25/.25 then .25/.50. Big wins and loses we’re around the $200 mark. Everything was great until we had a few players like you mentioned show up and it pretty much killed the game. A lot of people just don’t want to play for that kind of stakes and they just quit showing up.
The only way I can get people to play now days is to have a monthly lower stakes league tournament. It’s a different younger group with a couple left from the old guard and we even have a hard time getting a cash game going after people start busting out of the tournament.
So it’s a dilemma that I’m not sure there is good answer to.

 

[toothpic]

Plus a third - guys uncomfortable with the stakes.
A guy could love playing poker - could even love playing no limit, but be at the very ceiling of his comfort level with the stakes at the quieter tamer .25/.50 game. Maybe a guy who would do better at .25/.25, but he was doing fine. Then you bring in these wildcards, and suddenly the game is playing two to three times as big, and that is a very different thing.
I don’t know if a host can or should try to vet out those kinds of players. That’s no limit - eventually you’ll get all types.

That's true. For some people though the stakes only slightly impact their betting. The same wild cards players who make the game play much bigger generally do that so even if it's 0.25/0.25 or 0.25/0.50 they bet the same.

Reflecting back on it, it just showed that some of us wanted to play bigger while some were fine with the old game so we do have a seperate game we run sometimes where we run 1/2 blinds and a few people from our social game attend. So maybe on a separate ocassion host the larger game with larger blinds for those who are comfortable with it and then the other smaller game without the wild players for the original group of friends.

 

[utgtrash]

i run a regular two table night and you just can't make everyone happy. if someone wanted to play limit vs no limit, this wouldn't be an issue as that person is so in the minority i couldn't bother everyone else to play limit just for him. On the other hand, the PLO/NLH vs NLH only is an issue for me and it usually boils down to majority ruling and the rest just decide if they want to suffer thru it or edit themselves out of the game.

In your game, anyone sensible would understand they should learn to win where the money is, and it seems like there's PLENTY of money to win playing NL correctly! In my game i don't understand why people won't learn PLO to grind vs very bad players, rather than play an NLH only lineup where average competency is a LOT higher. But clearly you know that people just have their comfort zones and that's that.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

I used to carry 500 chips for my cash set.
1 rack fracs
160 racks 1s
2 racks 5s
2 barrels 25s.

One of our home games we invite a few new player who were extremely splashy. Instead of standard raises to $1.50 or $2, they would do $5 - $25 in a 0.25/0.50 game and we nearly ran out of chips for the bank. After the game the feedback was split like yours.

Some of us thought it was really fun, others said the game was too big and they weren't comfortable. Really it's a difference of just wanting to play for fun and then those who really wanted to play poker.

I can't agree with this and think its ridiculous advice, very irresponsible to tell people this.

160 racks of any chip is way too much, and that kind of hoarding will hurt our community!

 

[toothpic]

I can't agree with this and think its ridiculous advice, very irresponsible to tell people this.

160 racks of any chip is way too much, and that kind of hoarding will hurt our community!

Fixed it before people get on to me.

 

[jpietrella]

. A good friend of mine no longer wants to play no limit based on our last session. He just sent a group text asking to change to a limit type game.

In turn my one good friend is now scared to play no limit.

my good buddy, who's now scared, really wants to learn

He's been asking me to teach him and help his game so one day he can feel confident at the casino.

. Teach your friend to be patient and wait for strong hands to play back at them with. He can’t just be a loose calling station that fold every flop he misses when he calls a 10x preflop raise.

I don't understand why your friend want's to change the game to limit. Exposure to varying types of players and odd/off betting should help better prepare your friend to play at a casino.

I've been having these convos with him lately. Thing is, unless you're a "poker player" it takes a while to sink in.

I agree 100%! Problem is if this is you're first exposure to it, I can understand being gun shy.

When I talk with my friend about this, his response:
In a casino you can get up and walk away or go to another table. At home you're forced to stay at that table....then what, twiddle your thumbs all night while people bet insane amounts?

I think the issue your friend is really having is experience in playing and now the game is changing a bit he doesnt either have the confidence and doesnt like it,

Unpopular suggestion: has your friend ever considered not being a wet blanket?

Just kidding. I definitely don't agree with changing the format just for 1 person but maybe setting some new expectations and a few good pointers here and there could work. If you can't afford to lose it, don't play.

Good luck, following!

 

[Coyote]

Capping the total buy-in per player per night? At something like 600BBs?
So that rich maniacs cannot table all of their 2,000BBs

 

[bernielomax]

I can't agree with this and think its ridiculous advice, very irresponsible to tell people this.

160 racks of any chip is way too much, and that kind of hoarding will hurt our community!

Tell that to @ovo

 

[toothpic]

Tell that to @ovo

Frank doesn't have a lot of racks... for sale

 

[bernielomax]

Frank doesn't have a lot of racks... for sale

This still remains my favorite threads and slow rolls

 

[toothpic]

This still remains my favorite threads and slow rolls

View attachment 1052054

Please tell me pictures were posted.

 

[allforcharity]

I can't agree with this and think its ridiculous advice, very irresponsible to tell people this.

160 racks of any chip is way too much, and that kind of hoarding will hurt our community!

But what if you have to cover 16 tables of $2/$4 limit? I wouldn't want to be the one caught with their pants down.

 

[Machine]

Offer a lower buy in and 50 max make the minimum five or 10 bucks. Lower the blinds .10 /.25.

You might offer the school of hard knocks is the greatest teacher. You might also note that you’ll never find stakes this low to cut your teeth on. You should cater to the group of players, and while you value his friendship, maybe poker isn’t something that you have in common. If he’s not comfortable now, he’s never gonna be comfortable playing larger games or at the casino.

There’s an easy test to see if he’s a gambler, it’s one simple question - Dolly once said the way to tell if you’re a gambler or not is if you’ll take 2 to 1 odds on a 50-50 for your net worth.

I have found that I cultivate specific personalities for my game, if someone is to splashy or nitty or doesn’t match with the group on a personal level, hygiene, manners, economically, or socially then I usually pass on the person.

I’m not apposed to change, but it might not be the change he’s asking for, play pot limit Omaha. It’s a reset for everybody and will level the playing field.

 

[4SUMERZ]

It all depends on what type of cash game you guys as a group are most comfortable with. Are most of your regulars playing to win a ton of money, or more to enjoy the casual get together, a few laughs, a drink or two and having fun playing poker. If its about making as much money as possible, then all is fair in betting, as many rebuys, top ups, etc. It will be up to you how you manage your game, to either lose your friend to the game, or make it so he isn't intimidated by big pots until he gets more playing reps.

At my home games, out of the 12 regulars that I invite to my 8 player table, we all are very competetive, but we are also there to have a good time, have a few drinks, some laughs, and mix in some light snacks. We play NL dealers choice, between Texas Hold'em, Pinneaple and Omaha. We sometime play the 7-2 game costing a $1.00 chip to anyone that win a hand with a 7-2 hold cards, during Texas Hold'em only. We only play for 4 hours, change decks every hour, with an initial buy in is $20.00 for all. $.25/$.25 and the most anyone can raise and no reraise during Omaha is 5 big blinds pre flop. After the flop, there is no more betting limit. This allows more players to see a flop without risking much.
The most anyone can rebuy on a night is 3 starting stacks, or $60.00 total. The other 2 games are open to whatever bet or rebet. We allow top ups , but once one reaches $60.00 total, that's it for any more chips for that player to rebuy, so that tends to keep the crazy betting to a mimimum. No one goes home broke, nor does anyone go home with wads in their pocket.
It works for us, as the most one can lose in a night is $60.00. I have no problem filling my table anytime we play. The first 8 to answer the text or email are in..simple as that. Just being the top winner for the night is bragging rights, much more important to us than how much money we have won or lost. The high hand for the night, and the biggest money winner is guaranteed to have a seat at the next game if available to play

Many on here may poo poo the way we play, our small stakes, and limiting the max buy in for a night, but we enjoy ourselves without breaking the bank.
It works for us. Over the 10 years, the guys can't wait to make the game.

Good Luck with your game.

 

[LotsOfChips]

I played in a post-tournament cash game a few months ago filled with rank beginners and retirees on a very limited income. Host stated the game was .05/.10 NLHE, with a $5 max buyin (unlimited rebuys or top-ups, but only to a $5 max), to keep the game low-cost for the rookies and shallow-pocketed majority.

One younger (more experienced and much more aggressive) player bitched and moaned, tried to get the stakes (or at least the buy-in) raised. When the vast majority said no to raising the buy-in limit, he pulled out a wad of $5 bills, and proceeded to go all-in pre-flop for the next 20 hands in a row. The game turned into a Bingo game, with everyone but me taking the guy's money $5 at a time (my AKs lost to his 68o when a 6 hit the turn).

Young player hasn't been back since (not sure if by choice or because he was de-invited), but I heard later from several of the other players that it spoiled the evening's fun for them, and they wouldn't be happy if he tried the same thing a second time...

So yeah, maybe one or more of the players in your group are comfortable with the game as it was, and changing the flavour of the game, while still within the rules, didn't sit well with their comfort level. Do you want to keep the base group content (status quo), or do you want to push the envelope to include more aggression and possibly a greater skill level?

 

[Nanook]

......I’m pretty sure you can play fixed limit with a “regular” chipset, no problem. Don’t let the chips dissuade you.

You certainly can. I've done it more than once. It's not ideal, but it works

......going from NL to Limit is a much different game and you might find other players not liking it as well.

The games are entirely different and lots of people that have little or no experience with limit will often say they don't like it.

I agree with ya.

Spread limit is basically limit with a "bigger" bet cap, which essentially gets bet the max amount every time -- I've never played anywhere when it wasn't (in a 1/2/5 spread-limit game, for example, every bet made is $5, although it ~could~ be from $2 to $5). It's basically pointless; just raise the limit stakes instead.

Same for pot-limit. Most (all?) PL games have no or very little bet sizing strategy involved; people just bet the maximum (pot). NL games usually play smaller irl than PL for this reason - what is designed to limit the size of the game actually makes it bigger.

No-limit with a cap works to some degree, but I personally find it distasteful. It ~should~ alter betting strategy earlier in the hand to allow meaningful betting later when the cap affects betting size..... but it doesn't. So players end up hog-tied in post-flop betting with bloated pots they can't attack or defend.

Hold'em is best played fixed-limit or no-limit -- but they are very different games.

All true.

I'll add that if the idea is to have a fun among friends then limit is a good way to limit the losses & keep everyone happy and keep them coming back.

NL always eventually ends up ruining the game unless you have either a) people with unlimited deep pockets or b) a steady stream of new players

 

[Old State]

Your friend is at least honest

No limit was a game killer for my old crew. We had a regular almost weekly $2/4 or $3/6 limit game. We are about 1:30hr from AC and when they started NL that’s what everyone wanted to play. I was very skeptical they would play that every week. Guess what? They didn’t. No one ever said they didn’t like it…to the contrary the defended the choice …but suddenly the weekly game became a monthly…then by monthly….then 3-4 times a year.

Most people just can handle the prospect of losing a few hundred dollars that often. But few will admit to it. If I could get people to play $3/6 or even $4/8 limit I would live it

 

[mburnznj]

So this is what I think I'm going to do in the next few days. I have a package from gear coming in for a label job I'll be doing. Going to invite my friend over to help clean and label some chips (hey, free labor). While he's here I'll talk some sense into him then try and teach him some poker logic about thinking like a player at the table versus just playing the game.

We'll see where this leads. I'll keep this updated.