Donvito
Two Pair
@chipjoker and @Shaggy do a GREAT job of dealing and controlling the game...a GREAT JOB!!!!
Aces in the small blind. 25c/50c PAHWM (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Shaggy
- Start date
OP
OP
Shaggy
Full House
bump before I move the hand along
OP
OP
Shaggy
Full House
Continuing...
Action on Hero...
The Pot $140.
The Turn:
At this point I’ll give you a villain read. Hero and villain have played together in this home game for several years at this point. Villain likes to have position on hero... always sits to immediate left of hero. Hero is always center table (dealer). Villain might sit there for better viewing of board cards... but may be for positional strategy. Villain likes to apply pressure. Almost a given that he will bet if checked to. Bluff raise is less likely, but not out of the question. Villain does have a tendency to run up a stack during the night, but lose it by the end of the night.
Hero ($110 remaining) checks, believing villain is potentially likely. Hero wants a cheap showdown.
Villain ($ covers) bets $40. Action back to hero (pot $180)
Action on Hero...
The Pot $140.
The Turn:
At this point I’ll give you a villain read. Hero and villain have played together in this home game for several years at this point. Villain likes to have position on hero... always sits to immediate left of hero. Hero is always center table (dealer). Villain might sit there for better viewing of board cards... but may be for positional strategy. Villain likes to apply pressure. Almost a given that he will bet if checked to. Bluff raise is less likely, but not out of the question. Villain does have a tendency to run up a stack during the night, but lose it by the end of the night.
Hero ($110 remaining) checks, believing villain is potentially likely. Hero wants a cheap showdown.
Villain ($ covers) bets $40. Action back to hero (pot $180)
I’ll stand by my read and fold this. You have shown some serious strength:
You 3-bet pre, too small sure, but still.
You lead into 5 ppl for 2/3 pot. He still called with all 4 players left to act. Unless he’s completely clicking buttons l’d give him at least a pair of kings here.
He does make it cheap on the turn but if we call here I don’t see folding being an option on the river for $70 to win $290. So we either fold now or call with plans to call off the rest on pretty much any river.
You 3-bet pre, too small sure, but still.
You lead into 5 ppl for 2/3 pot. He still called with all 4 players left to act. Unless he’s completely clicking buttons l’d give him at least a pair of kings here.
He does make it cheap on the turn but if we call here I don’t see folding being an option on the river for $70 to win $290. So we either fold now or call with plans to call off the rest on pretty much any river.
OP
OP
Shaggy
Full House
Continuing...
Action on Hero...
The Pot $140.
The Turn:
Hero ($110 remaining) checks, believing villain is potentially likely to raise if hero bets. Hero wants a cheap showdown.
Villain ($ covers) bets $40. Action back to hero (pot $180).
Hero calls. Pot $220... hero’s remaining stack is $70.
The River:
Hero?
Action on Hero...
The Pot $140.
The Turn:
Hero ($110 remaining) checks, believing villain is potentially likely to raise if hero bets. Hero wants a cheap showdown.
Villain ($ covers) bets $40. Action back to hero (pot $180).
Hero calls. Pot $220... hero’s remaining stack is $70.
The River:
Hero?
Hello, beautiful.Continuing...
Action on Hero...
The Pot $140.
The Turn:
Hero ($110 remaining) checks, believing villain is potentially likely to raise if hero bets. Hero wants a cheap showdown.
Villain ($ covers) bets $40. Action back to hero (pot $180).
Hero calls. Pot $220... hero’s remaining stack is $70.
The River:
Hero?
Bet the $70 remaining and act nervous.
Fun hand. I never got to the river but now that we did anyway that third king makes me wanna bet the rest myself. We’re never folding if we check so we’re getting stacked by quads either way.
He will probably check behind with 44 and might with QQ (don’t know if the latter is possible given action). Can he have any bluffs at this point?
I still think he has that case king. Curious to see the results.
He will probably check behind with 44 and might with QQ (don’t know if the latter is possible given action). Can he have any bluffs at this point?
I still think he has that case king. Curious to see the results.
Tough call on jam or check. Checking gives him a chance to continue bluff with J10 or boats that got counterfeited. He should probably realize your line is never folding here though. Not thinking he will bluff often.
I'm calling any bet, so I'm with @Eriks that a jam is probably better. Might look fishy and probably your only way to get paid in full when you are ahead. Decent amount of Q combos, but won't be surprised to see quads.
I'm calling any bet, so I'm with @Eriks that a jam is probably better. Might look fishy and probably your only way to get paid in full when you are ahead. Decent amount of Q combos, but won't be surprised to see quads.
I'm with the others here - my money's getting in either way, but I likely jam it in here too.
Something tells me we should expect to see that fourth King though...
Something tells me we should expect to see that fourth King though...
JustinInMN
4 of a Kind
So given this is the read on the turn check-call seemed the obvious line.
If we have a similar read on the river, I say check again. However, if villian is smart enough to interpret hero's call on the turn as strength, then we have to bet our own hand because we don't want to miss value from a queen.
This is an interesting decision, I don't think check-fold is an option. I think we can come up with enough hands villian can bet that hero beats, basically queens + air, to outweigh the times we are shown the case king.
(This would be a pretty gross run-out if villian has QQ btw, I am starting to think, this may be the case.)
So I say it's check planning to call if you think villian is still going to continue with lesser holdings.
If you think villian is giving up on bluffs, bet hoping to collect.
Take your medicine the few times you will be shown the case king, playing for your stack here will win enough.
PlayerADK
Flush
Def jam on river, but I wouldn't be surprised vs quads here
If you wanted to save yourself money you'd have been out on the turn, but K on the river is the 2nd best scenario on that board after a potential A
If you wanted to save yourself money you'd have been out on the turn, but K on the river is the 2nd best scenario on that board after a potential A
MrCatPants
Full House
I dont know that either action here makes much difference. Counterfeited hands may hero fold to a jam, so I dont know that there's much benefit to jamming. But, it's not like you can fold your remaining stack if you get jammed. So, I'd probably just jam.
JustinInMN
4 of a Kind
If villian can check a queen behind, hero is better off jamming. Unless villian can somehow fold a queen to jam in this spot, then there just isn't a way to get value by jamming and the bet only loses when villian has a king.
If villian is going to respond to a check by jamming with a queen and maybe some bluffs, hero is better off checking.
So it really depends on the read, especially whether the bet when checked to strategy carries to the river.
In my last post I really went on the fence, but if In to decide
I think I favor a jam here just to make sure we collect from a Q, and I don't think a Q can find a laydown. But that decision isn't without risk of forcing j hi hands to fold instead of having am opportunity to two-barrel.
If villian is going to respond to a check by jamming with a queen and maybe some bluffs, hero is better off checking.
So it really depends on the read, especially whether the bet when checked to strategy carries to the river.
In my last post I really went on the fence, but if In to decide
I think I favor a jam here just to make sure we collect from a Q, and I don't think a Q can find a laydown. But that decision isn't without risk of forcing j hi hands to fold instead of having am opportunity to two-barrel.
Sooo... how’d this turn out??? 
JFCJ
Full House
The villian's $40 bet into a $140 pot on the turn seems light. If he had the K, I would have anticipated a stronger bet here. I think the aces are good. I'm jamming it all.
markleteenie
4 of a Kind
Ship it!
Steve Birrer
Two Pair
This is why poker is so fascinating. I took that bet to mean the opposite. His small bet stinks to me like he is begging to get called. Hero is gonna get all his chips in now one way or the other.
JFCJ
Full House
My thought here is due to the fact that the OP indicated the villain liked to apply pressure... if the villain is more trappy, then I'd be more inclined to agree with your view.
OP
OP
Shaggy
Full House
Sorry for the delay. Continuing the hand...
The River:
Pot: $220
Hero ($70)
Villain (covers)
Action on Hero. Hero checks. Villain moves all-in. Hero thinks about it for maybe a minute. I didn't fully appreciate the size of the pot at this point and how I pretty much committed on the turn. Thinking that the third king made it substantially less likely that the Villain had the fourth king in his hand... and this Villain's preference for applying pressure, it seemed to justify the call.
Villain table QJ (I don't recall if they were suited) for a very loose pre-flop cold call... and a loose flop call.
Thanks everyone for the insight on this hand. Walking back through it, makes it obvious that the pf 3-bet was much too small. It was obvious when I was first to act on the flop that I was in a sticky spot that I would rather not have been in. I was fortunate that I only got one caller on the flop bet. This could have easily turned into the typical "bad beat aces cracked story." The river was a fortunate one for me. Had the river bricked... I am not sure I would have called his river all-in. I am inclined to think villain would still have moved in on a brick river.
The River:
Pot: $220
Hero ($70)
Villain (covers)
Action on Hero. Hero checks. Villain moves all-in. Hero thinks about it for maybe a minute. I didn't fully appreciate the size of the pot at this point and how I pretty much committed on the turn. Thinking that the third king made it substantially less likely that the Villain had the fourth king in his hand... and this Villain's preference for applying pressure, it seemed to justify the call.
Villain table QJ (I don't recall if they were suited) for a very loose pre-flop cold call... and a loose flop call.
Thanks everyone for the insight on this hand. Walking back through it, makes it obvious that the pf 3-bet was much too small. It was obvious when I was first to act on the flop that I was in a sticky spot that I would rather not have been in. I was fortunate that I only got one caller on the flop bet. This could have easily turned into the typical "bad beat aces cracked story." The river was a fortunate one for me. Had the river bricked... I am not sure I would have called his river all-in. I am inclined to think villain would still have moved in on a brick river.
PlayerADK
Flush
Lmao - nice!Sorry for the delay. Continuing the hand...
The River:
Pot: $220
Hero ($70)
Villain (covers)
Action on Hero. Hero checks. Villain moves all-in. Hero thinks about it for maybe a minute. I didn't fully appreciate the size of the pot at this point and how I pretty much committed on the turn. Thinking that the third king made it substantially less likely that the Villain had the fourth king in his hand... and this Villain's preference for applying pressure, it seemed to justify the call.
Villain table QJ (I don't recall if they were suited) for a very loose pre-flop cold call... and a loose flop call.
Thanks everyone for the insight on this hand. Walking back through it, makes it obvious that the pf 3-bet was much too small. It was obvious when I was first to act on the flop that I was in a sticky spot that I would rather not have been in. I was fortunate that I only got one caller on the flop bet. This could have easily turned into the typical "bad beat aces cracked story." The river was a fortunate one for me. Had the river bricked... I am not sure I would have called his river all-in. I am inclined to think villain would still have moved in on a brick river.
Ended up working out for the best, but I still think shove > check on the river.
I do think that 9/10 villains are shoving on this here anyways but I wouldn't give them the opportunity.
He thought his hand improved significantly with that 3rd king, same as you did. haha
Villain played poorly overall, but that is normally a great bet on the turn. I am still surprised with your call on the turn. I think most players are gone there.
Was fun analyzing though! Thanks! Nice hand.
Donvito
Two Pair
Great hand for sure, thanks for posting it.
JustinInMN
4 of a Kind
I know it's results oriented, but learning the data point that villian will shove a queen I think vindicates the check as the best move.
I imagine hero still gets paid shoving himself. Villian has the 3rd nuts and in villian's mind he may have drawn out for a chop.
But if checking gets full value from a Q, it also sometimes gets value from the jack-hi misses.
The only risks to the check are.
1) Villian will check a Q (didn't happen)
2) Hero will lay down the best hand (thankfully, that didn't happen either.)
The thing is the shove from villian is soooooo bad unless he expects hero to pay off with JJ/TT or, lay down AQ or AA. Plus hero can have AK too as played.
But if it's a play villian will make, hero's check exploits it perfectly.
I imagine hero still gets paid shoving himself. Villian has the 3rd nuts and in villian's mind he may have drawn out for a chop.
But if checking gets full value from a Q, it also sometimes gets value from the jack-hi misses.
The only risks to the check are.
1) Villian will check a Q (didn't happen)
2) Hero will lay down the best hand (thankfully, that didn't happen either.)
The thing is the shove from villian is soooooo bad unless he expects hero to pay off with JJ/TT or, lay down AQ or AA. Plus hero can have AK too as played.
But if it's a play villian will make, hero's check exploits it perfectly.
johnnyesper
Two Pair
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