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Am I the only one that is truly happy with Copag cards? (7 Viewers)

I like them ALOT and maybe I play too much but they don’t last as long as some of the others do in my opinion. Those WSOP 2012 kems last longer it seems in regards to marks, scuffs, and on face fading of the print. Also Copag seems more suss to standard dings then some others. Maybe it’s the stiffness, which I like! Thats my con list….
 
Same, i've played a lot with copag's and i just ordered the Elite's Black & Gold.
 
After our last regular game, Mrs Zombie and I took out a sample from each of our setups and built a spreadsheet.

Note: All ratings are subjective. Anyone could run a similar test and have completely opposite results (hence why I hadn't posted this before).

Each category was rated on a 1-3 scale (1=poor, 2=average, 3=good). Then the "Good" earned bonus points in side by side comparisons and the poor lost points the same way. The points were then multiplied by a different amount in each category, since we deem some categories are more important than others.

Confused? Yeah, This isn't a paper for a doctoral thesis. It's the ramblings of a madman with Excel.

The categories are:
Shuffle: Self explanatory, but an important factor in our games. When players are eliminated from the tournament, one will deal for the table and the next ko will usually shuffle for the table. When you shuffle for 2 hours, you don't want cards that tire your hands out
Glide: In our self-dealt game, we had issues with cards not cards not covering the distance. We all blamed the surface, but I knew I had cleaned it the evening before the game. Turns out the cards are to blame. Some cards float the distance, some stick like mud.
Font: Reading the suite and the rank. We spread a handful out on the table, then read them from as far away from the table as possible. The idea being that my eyes are not going to start getting better as I get older. I have no 4 color decks, but I suspect they could have crushed this category.
Pickup: Lifting the cards off the surface following a flop or a wash. This factor is never talked about on PCF. Some cards just don't mesh. It's like sliding t bricks together. Sure, this could be considered "shuffle", but we both viewed it differently. We could not separate out the "good" rated ones here. They either came together, or they did not.

The results (from worst to first).:
Jdesign Classic Baroque (post Modiano) These were the replacements following the Modiano snafu. These had the absolute worst shuffle, tiring the fingers out in about a minute of riffle-riffle-riffle-cut repeat. they just kind of stick together making that last square before the next riffle a chore. They also had the worst glide, stopping under a foot from where they hit the speedcloth. On top of all that, they rated "poor" on font, with clubs and spades being difficult to distinguish the length of the table. The only good thing was the pickup, which matched 7 out of 9 decks. These are not available on the J Design website, so I suspect Jason was also not thrilled with the card stock.

Broken Arrow Poor shuffle, poor glide, and the worst font ever. I did like the open-top "4", but the 2s, 5s, 6s, 8s 9s, are so similar I question what they were thinking. On top of that, the unidirectional backs could make this a risky deck to play on. These had a pick-up rating of "average" - which was lower than the 7 decks rated as "good".

Jdesign Diamonds Another poor shuffle for Jdesign, and the same font as the Classic Baroque is not good for aging eyes. They do have excellent glide though, so you can get the cards to the far end of the table - you just cant tell a club from a spade.

Cartamundi Bravo This was the deck that launched the glide inquisition. A great shuffle and an easy to read font, but these need help getting to their destination. Excellent dealers probably love Cartamundi. I'm not an excellent dealer.

Piatnik/Kem Full disclosure, I only have Piatnik Bridge size in blue. To use them, I pair them with a deck of KEMs (USPC). So their rating was a combination of the 2 averaged together. This, unsurprisingly makes these setups more average than the rest. Both decks shuffle ok, and had excellent glide. The fonts are solid, and they pick up easily. The KEMs are not warped, but I do store them according to manufacturers specs. In a box, with extra cut cards to make them as tight as possible. The box is sealed with magnets, to keep the lid tight. The box is packed in desiccant, and sealed inside an airtight vault. The vault has been launched into space in an orbit designed to keep the earth between it and the sun. While re-entry is expensive, it is still cheaper than a new setup of KEMs.

Statesman @xdan 's foray into the card market went astonishingly well. Mrs Zombie and I could not reach a consensus determining if the shuffle was average or good, so we split the points. Where these excel is the font. You could read these from the far end of the table with the table in another room.

Bicycle Prestige Bicycles had a heyday on PCF some time ago as these bridge-sized plastic cards were being sold without boxes for a song. I picked up a seemingly lifetime supply, as these cards just haven't worn out despite heavy rotation. Excellent glide, above average shuffle, and an easy to read font. Literally nothing bad to say, except I had to gather boxes separately - which is fine, because Copags come with boxes.

Copag To the OP: no, you are not the only one that is happy with Copag. #2 overall on my chart, these had the best glide of the test. In the test, there is nothing bad to say about these, but I don't get how posters say they are durable. No other card fades as quickly as Copag. This is offset by their low cost, and throwing out a deck after two dozen games makes the nightly cost under $1 for the cards, and they provide boxes for your Bikes.

Fournier The winner in our test, but only narrowly nudging out Copag. Fournier scored 69 points over Copags 67.5. Fournier had the best shuffle, never getting tired during the test. The font is just average. As my eyes age, I might like these less but a good glide and excellent shuffle (which I am trying really hard to not compare to butter) will still make these a top contender for arthritic hands.

@Jonesey07 is planning to bring a setup of Faded Spades one night, which will cause a retest. I do like the font on the Faded Spades, though they are constantly sold out on their website, so it may be a while before I add them to the stable.
 
Poker Zombie said:
After our last regular game, Mrs Zombie and I took out a sample from each of our setups and built a spreadsheet.

Note: All ratings are subjective. Anyone could run a similar test and have completely opposite results (hence why I hadn't posted this before).

Each category was rated on a 1-3 scale (1=poor, 2=average, 3=good). Then the "Good" earned bonus points in side by side comparisons and the poor lost points the same way. The points were then multiplied by a different amount in each category, since we deem some categories are more important than others.

Confused? Yeah, This isn't a paper for a doctoral thesis. It's the ramblings of a madman with Excel.

The categories are:
Shuffle: Self explanatory, but an important factor in our games. When players are eliminated from the tournament, one will deal for the table and the next ko will usually shuffle for the table. When you shuffle for 2 hours, you don't want cards that tire your hands out
Glide: In our self-dealt game, we had issues with cards not cards not covering the distance. We all blamed the surface, but I knew I had cleaned it the evening before the game. Turns out the cards are to blame. Some cards float the distance, some stick like mud.
Font: Reading the suite and the rank. We spread a handful out on the table, then read them from as far away from the table as possible. The idea being that my eyes are not going to start getting better as I get older. I have no 4 color decks, but I suspect they could have crushed this category.
Pickup: Lifting the cards off the surface following a flop or a wash. This factor is never talked about on PCF. Some cards just don't mesh. It's like sliding t bricks together. Sure, this could be considered "shuffle", but we both viewed it differently. We could not separate out the "good" rated ones here. They either came together, or they did not.

The results (from worst to first).:
Jdesign Classic Baroque (post Modiano) These were the replacements following the Modiano snafu. These had the absolute worst shuffle, tiring the fingers out in about a minute of riffle-riffle-riffle-cut repeat. they just kind of stick together making that last square before the next riffle a chore. They also had the worst glide, stopping under a foot from where they hit the speedcloth. On top of all that, they rated "poor" on font, with clubs and spades being difficult to distinguish the length of the table. The only good thing was the pickup, which matched 7 out of 9 decks. These are not available on the J Design website, so I suspect Jason was also not thrilled with the card stock.

Broken Arrow Poor shuffle, poor glide, and the worst font ever. I did like the open-top "4", but the 2s, 5s, 6s, 8s 9s, are so similar I question what they were thinking. On top of that, the unidirectional backs could make this a risky deck to play on. These had a pick-up rating of "average" - which was lower than the 7 decks rated as "good".

Jdesign Diamonds Another poor shuffle for Jdesign, and the same font as the Classic Baroque is not good for aging eyes. They do have excellent glide though, so you can get the cards to the far end of the table - you just cant tell a club from a spade.

Cartamundi Bravo This was the deck that launched the glide inquisition. A great shuffle and an easy to read font, but these need help getting to their destination. Excellent dealers probably love Cartamundi. I'm not an excellent dealer.

Piatnik/Kem Full disclosure, I only have Piatnik Bridge size in blue. To use them, I pair them with a deck of KEMs (USPC). So their rating was a combination of the 2 averaged together. This, unsurprisingly makes these setups more average than the rest. Both decks shuffle ok, and had excellent glide. The fonts are solid, and they pick up easily. The KEMs are not warped, but I do store them according to manufacturers specs. In a box, with extra cut cards to make them as tight as possible. The box is sealed with magnets, to keep the lid tight. The box is packed in desiccant, and sealed inside an airtight vault. The vault has been launched into space in an orbit designed to keep the earth between it and the sun. While re-entry is expensive, it is still cheaper than a new setup of KEMs.

Statesman @xdan 's foray into the card market went astonishingly well. Mrs Zombie and I could not reach a consensus determining if the shuffle was average or good, so we split the points. Where these excel is the font. You could read these from the far end of the table with the table in another room.

Bicycle Prestige Bicycles had a heyday on PCF some time ago as these bridge-sized plastic cards were being sold without boxes for a song. I picked up a seemingly lifetime supply, as these cards just haven't worn out despite heavy rotation. Excellent glide, above average shuffle, and an easy to read font. Literally nothing bad to say, except I had to gather boxes separately - which is fine, because Copags come with boxes.

Copag To the OP: no, you are not the only one that is happy with Copag. #2 overall on my chart, these had the best glide of the test. In the test, there is nothing bad to say about these, but I don't get how posters say they are durable. No other card fades as quickly as Copag. This is offset by their low cost, and throwing out a deck after two dozen games makes the nightly cost under $1 for the cards, and they provide boxes for your Bikes.

Fournier The winner in our test, but only narrowly nudging out Copag. Fournier scored 69 points over Copags 67.5. Fournier had the best shuffle, never getting tired during the test. The font is just average. As my eyes age, I might like these less but a good glide and excellent shuffle (which I am trying really hard to not compare to butter) will still make these a top contender for arthritic hands.

@Jonesey07 is planning to bring a setup of Faded Spades one night, which will cause a retest. I do like the font on the Faded Spades, though they are constantly sold out on their website, so it may be a while before I add them to the stable.T
Click to expand...
That was a great read. Thanks for sharing!
 
Poker Zombie said:
After our last regular game, Mrs Zombie and I took out a sample from each of our setups and built a spreadsheet.

Note: All ratings are subjective. Anyone could run a similar test and have completely opposite results (hence why I hadn't posted this before).

Each category was rated on a 1-3 scale (1=poor, 2=average, 3=good). Then the "Good" earned bonus points in side by side comparisons and the poor lost points the same way. The points were then multiplied by a different amount in each category, since we deem some categories are more important than others.

Confused? Yeah, This isn't a paper for a doctoral thesis. It's the ramblings of a madman with Excel.

The categories are:
Shuffle: Self explanatory, but an important factor in our games. When players are eliminated from the tournament, one will deal for the table and the next ko will usually shuffle for the table. When you shuffle for 2 hours, you don't want cards that tire your hands out
Glide: In our self-dealt game, we had issues with cards not cards not covering the distance. We all blamed the surface, but I knew I had cleaned it the evening before the game. Turns out the cards are to blame. Some cards float the distance, some stick like mud.
Font: Reading the suite and the rank. We spread a handful out on the table, then read them from as far away from the table as possible. The idea being that my eyes are not going to start getting better as I get older. I have no 4 color decks, but I suspect they could have crushed this category.
Pickup: Lifting the cards off the surface following a flop or a wash. This factor is never talked about on PCF. Some cards just don't mesh. It's like sliding t bricks together. Sure, this could be considered "shuffle", but we both viewed it differently. We could not separate out the "good" rated ones here. They either came together, or they did not.

The results (from worst to first).:
Jdesign Classic Baroque (post Modiano) These were the replacements following the Modiano snafu. These had the absolute worst shuffle, tiring the fingers out in about a minute of riffle-riffle-riffle-cut repeat. they just kind of stick together making that last square before the next riffle a chore. They also had the worst glide, stopping under a foot from where they hit the speedcloth. On top of all that, they rated "poor" on font, with clubs and spades being difficult to distinguish the length of the table. The only good thing was the pickup, which matched 7 out of 9 decks. These are not available on the J Design website, so I suspect Jason was also not thrilled with the card stock.

Broken Arrow Poor shuffle, poor glide, and the worst font ever. I did like the open-top "4", but the 2s, 5s, 6s, 8s 9s, are so similar I question what they were thinking. On top of that, the unidirectional backs could make this a risky deck to play on. These had a pick-up rating of "average" - which was lower than the 7 decks rated as "good".

Jdesign Diamonds Another poor shuffle for Jdesign, and the same font as the Classic Baroque is not good for aging eyes. They do have excellent glide though, so you can get the cards to the far end of the table - you just cant tell a club from a spade.

Cartamundi Bravo This was the deck that launched the glide inquisition. A great shuffle and an easy to read font, but these need help getting to their destination. Excellent dealers probably love Cartamundi. I'm not an excellent dealer.

Piatnik/Kem Full disclosure, I only have Piatnik Bridge size in blue. To use them, I pair them with a deck of KEMs (USPC). So their rating was a combination of the 2 averaged together. This, unsurprisingly makes these setups more average than the rest. Both decks shuffle ok, and had excellent glide. The fonts are solid, and they pick up easily. The KEMs are not warped, but I do store them according to manufacturers specs. In a box, with extra cut cards to make them as tight as possible. The box is sealed with magnets, to keep the lid tight. The box is packed in desiccant, and sealed inside an airtight vault. The vault has been launched into space in an orbit designed to keep the earth between it and the sun. While re-entry is expensive, it is still cheaper than a new setup of KEMs.

Statesman @xdan 's foray into the card market went astonishingly well. Mrs Zombie and I could not reach a consensus determining if the shuffle was average or good, so we split the points. Where these excel is the font. You could read these from the far end of the table with the table in another room.

Bicycle Prestige Bicycles had a heyday on PCF some time ago as these bridge-sized plastic cards were being sold without boxes for a song. I picked up a seemingly lifetime supply, as these cards just haven't worn out despite heavy rotation. Excellent glide, above average shuffle, and an easy to read font. Literally nothing bad to say, except I had to gather boxes separately - which is fine, because Copags come with boxes.

Copag To the OP: no, you are not the only one that is happy with Copag. #2 overall on my chart, these had the best glide of the test. In the test, there is nothing bad to say about these, but I don't get how posters say they are durable. No other card fades as quickly as Copag. This is offset by their low cost, and throwing out a deck after two dozen games makes the nightly cost under $1 for the cards, and they provide boxes for your Bikes.

Fournier The winner in our test, but only narrowly nudging out Copag. Fournier scored 69 points over Copags 67.5. Fournier had the best shuffle, never getting tired during the test. The font is just average. As my eyes age, I might like these less but a good glide and excellent shuffle (which I am trying really hard to not compare to butter) will still make these a top contender for arthritic hands.

@Jonesey07 is planning to bring a setup of Faded Spades one night, which will cause a retest. I do like the font on the Faded Spades, though they are constantly sold out on their website, so it may be a while before I add them to the stable.
Click to expand...
I love the statesman cards over all the rest. I hope to be invited to the next testing session!
 
Poker Zombie said:
After our last regular game, Mrs Zombie and I took out a sample from each of our setups and built a spreadsheet.

Note: All ratings are subjective. Anyone could run a similar test and have completely opposite results (hence why I hadn't posted this before).

Each category was rated on a 1-3 scale (1=poor, 2=average, 3=good). Then the "Good" earned bonus points in side by side comparisons and the poor lost points the same way. The points were then multiplied by a different amount in each category, since we deem some categories are more important than others.

Confused? Yeah, This isn't a paper for a doctoral thesis. It's the ramblings of a madman with Excel.

The categories are:
Shuffle: Self explanatory, but an important factor in our games. When players are eliminated from the tournament, one will deal for the table and the next ko will usually shuffle for the table. When you shuffle for 2 hours, you don't want cards that tire your hands out
Glide: In our self-dealt game, we had issues with cards not cards not covering the distance. We all blamed the surface, but I knew I had cleaned it the evening before the game. Turns out the cards are to blame. Some cards float the distance, some stick like mud.
Font: Reading the suite and the rank. We spread a handful out on the table, then read them from as far away from the table as possible. The idea being that my eyes are not going to start getting better as I get older. I have no 4 color decks, but I suspect they could have crushed this category.
Pickup: Lifting the cards off the surface following a flop or a wash. This factor is never talked about on PCF. Some cards just don't mesh. It's like sliding t bricks together. Sure, this could be considered "shuffle", but we both viewed it differently. We could not separate out the "good" rated ones here. They either came together, or they did not.

The results (from worst to first).:
Jdesign Classic Baroque (post Modiano) These were the replacements following the Modiano snafu. These had the absolute worst shuffle, tiring the fingers out in about a minute of riffle-riffle-riffle-cut repeat. they just kind of stick together making that last square before the next riffle a chore. They also had the worst glide, stopping under a foot from where they hit the speedcloth. On top of all that, they rated "poor" on font, with clubs and spades being difficult to distinguish the length of the table. The only good thing was the pickup, which matched 7 out of 9 decks. These are not available on the J Design website, so I suspect Jason was also not thrilled with the card stock.

Broken Arrow Poor shuffle, poor glide, and the worst font ever. I did like the open-top "4", but the 2s, 5s, 6s, 8s 9s, are so similar I question what they were thinking. On top of that, the unidirectional backs could make this a risky deck to play on. These had a pick-up rating of "average" - which was lower than the 7 decks rated as "good".

Jdesign Diamonds Another poor shuffle for Jdesign, and the same font as the Classic Baroque is not good for aging eyes. They do have excellent glide though, so you can get the cards to the far end of the table - you just cant tell a club from a spade.

Cartamundi Bravo This was the deck that launched the glide inquisition. A great shuffle and an easy to read font, but these need help getting to their destination. Excellent dealers probably love Cartamundi. I'm not an excellent dealer.

Piatnik/Kem Full disclosure, I only have Piatnik Bridge size in blue. To use them, I pair them with a deck of KEMs (USPC). So their rating was a combination of the 2 averaged together. This, unsurprisingly makes these setups more average than the rest. Both decks shuffle ok, and had excellent glide. The fonts are solid, and they pick up easily. The KEMs are not warped, but I do store them according to manufacturers specs. In a box, with extra cut cards to make them as tight as possible. The box is sealed with magnets, to keep the lid tight. The box is packed in desiccant, and sealed inside an airtight vault. The vault has been launched into space in an orbit designed to keep the earth between it and the sun. While re-entry is expensive, it is still cheaper than a new setup of KEMs.

Statesman @xdan 's foray into the card market went astonishingly well. Mrs Zombie and I could not reach a consensus determining if the shuffle was average or good, so we split the points. Where these excel is the font. You could read these from the far end of the table with the table in another room.

Bicycle Prestige Bicycles had a heyday on PCF some time ago as these bridge-sized plastic cards were being sold without boxes for a song. I picked up a seemingly lifetime supply, as these cards just haven't worn out despite heavy rotation. Excellent glide, above average shuffle, and an easy to read font. Literally nothing bad to say, except I had to gather boxes separately - which is fine, because Copags come with boxes.

Copag To the OP: no, you are not the only one that is happy with Copag. #2 overall on my chart, these had the best glide of the test. In the test, there is nothing bad to say about these, but I don't get how posters say they are durable. No other card fades as quickly as Copag. This is offset by their low cost, and throwing out a deck after two dozen games makes the nightly cost under $1 for the cards, and they provide boxes for your Bikes.

Fournier The winner in our test, but only narrowly nudging out Copag. Fournier scored 69 points over Copags 67.5. Fournier had the best shuffle, never getting tired during the test. The font is just average. As my eyes age, I might like these less but a good glide and excellent shuffle (which I am trying really hard to not compare to butter) will still make these a top contender for arthritic hands.

@Jonesey07 is planning to bring a setup of Faded Spades one night, which will cause a retest. I do like the font on the Faded Spades, though they are constantly sold out on their website, so it may be a while before I add them to the stable.
Click to expand...
Did you use an older deck of Broken Arrow? I've never used them, the primary reason being the font. But the latest run has a new font which I think solved the issue of confusing 5s, 6s, 8s and 9s.

1725639612218.png
 
InBobWeTrust said:
I do use a shuffle tech, so the decision is kind of made for me. Luckily I am really happy with them.
Click to expand...
I've used almost everything in my Shuffletech including Bridge Sized cards. Thin slick cards like some Dal Negro & Brazilian Copags are the only ones I haven't had good luck with. And cards that bow like KEM.

The thicker & stiffer the better!
 
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I recently switch to copaq from modiano platinums because it appears now impossible to get modianos in the US. As I only use a set up once before retiring it, copaqs are fine. And they are half the price of the modiano platinums so that is a plus.
 
Poker Zombie said:
After our last regular game, Mrs Zombie and I took out a sample from each of our setups and built a spreadsheet.

Note: All ratings are subjective. Anyone could run a similar test and have completely opposite results (hence why I hadn't posted this before).

Each category was rated on a 1-3 scale (1=poor, 2=average, 3=good). Then the "Good" earned bonus points in side by side comparisons and the poor lost points the same way. The points were then multiplied by a different amount in each category, since we deem some categories are more important than others.

Confused? Yeah, This isn't a paper for a doctoral thesis. It's the ramblings of a madman with Excel.

The categories are:
Shuffle: Self explanatory, but an important factor in our games. When players are eliminated from the tournament, one will deal for the table and the next ko will usually shuffle for the table. When you shuffle for 2 hours, you don't want cards that tire your hands out
Glide: In our self-dealt game, we had issues with cards not cards not covering the distance. We all blamed the surface, but I knew I had cleaned it the evening before the game. Turns out the cards are to blame. Some cards float the distance, some stick like mud.
Font: Reading the suite and the rank. We spread a handful out on the table, then read them from as far away from the table as possible. The idea being that my eyes are not going to start getting better as I get older. I have no 4 color decks, but I suspect they could have crushed this category.
Pickup: Lifting the cards off the surface following a flop or a wash. This factor is never talked about on PCF. Some cards just don't mesh. It's like sliding t bricks together. Sure, this could be considered "shuffle", but we both viewed it differently. We could not separate out the "good" rated ones here. They either came together, or they did not.

The results (from worst to first).:
Jdesign Classic Baroque (post Modiano) These were the replacements following the Modiano snafu. These had the absolute worst shuffle, tiring the fingers out in about a minute of riffle-riffle-riffle-cut repeat. they just kind of stick together making that last square before the next riffle a chore. They also had the worst glide, stopping under a foot from where they hit the speedcloth. On top of all that, they rated "poor" on font, with clubs and spades being difficult to distinguish the length of the table. The only good thing was the pickup, which matched 7 out of 9 decks. These are not available on the J Design website, so I suspect Jason was also not thrilled with the card stock.

Broken Arrow Poor shuffle, poor glide, and the worst font ever. I did like the open-top "4", but the 2s, 5s, 6s, 8s 9s, are so similar I question what they were thinking. On top of that, the unidirectional backs could make this a risky deck to play on. These had a pick-up rating of "average" - which was lower than the 7 decks rated as "good".

Jdesign Diamonds Another poor shuffle for Jdesign, and the same font as the Classic Baroque is not good for aging eyes. They do have excellent glide though, so you can get the cards to the far end of the table - you just cant tell a club from a spade.

Cartamundi Bravo This was the deck that launched the glide inquisition. A great shuffle and an easy to read font, but these need help getting to their destination. Excellent dealers probably love Cartamundi. I'm not an excellent dealer.

Piatnik/Kem Full disclosure, I only have Piatnik Bridge size in blue. To use them, I pair them with a deck of KEMs (USPC). So their rating was a combination of the 2 averaged together. This, unsurprisingly makes these setups more average than the rest. Both decks shuffle ok, and had excellent glide. The fonts are solid, and they pick up easily. The KEMs are not warped, but I do store them according to manufacturers specs. In a box, with extra cut cards to make them as tight as possible. The box is sealed with magnets, to keep the lid tight. The box is packed in desiccant, and sealed inside an airtight vault. The vault has been launched into space in an orbit designed to keep the earth between it and the sun. While re-entry is expensive, it is still cheaper than a new setup of KEMs.

Statesman @xdan 's foray into the card market went astonishingly well. Mrs Zombie and I could not reach a consensus determining if the shuffle was average or good, so we split the points. Where these excel is the font. You could read these from the far end of the table with the table in another room.

Bicycle Prestige Bicycles had a heyday on PCF some time ago as these bridge-sized plastic cards were being sold without boxes for a song. I picked up a seemingly lifetime supply, as these cards just haven't worn out despite heavy rotation. Excellent glide, above average shuffle, and an easy to read font. Literally nothing bad to say, except I had to gather boxes separately - which is fine, because Copags come with boxes.

Copag To the OP: no, you are not the only one that is happy with Copag. #2 overall on my chart, these had the best glide of the test. In the test, there is nothing bad to say about these, but I don't get how posters say they are durable. No other card fades as quickly as Copag. This is offset by their low cost, and throwing out a deck after two dozen games makes the nightly cost under $1 for the cards, and they provide boxes for your Bikes.

Fournier The winner in our test, but only narrowly nudging out Copag. Fournier scored 69 points over Copags 67.5. Fournier had the best shuffle, never getting tired during the test. The font is just average. As my eyes age, I might like these less but a good glide and excellent shuffle (which I am trying really hard to not compare to butter) will still make these a top contender for arthritic hands.

@Jonesey07 is planning to bring a setup of Faded Spades one night, which will cause a retest. I do like the font on the Faded Spades, though they are constantly sold out on their website, so it may be a while before I add them to the stable.
Click to expand...
Interesting you found the Broken Arrow tough to shuffle. To me, even though they're more stiff than KEMs, they square up after a riffle smoother than any card I’ve ever shuffled.
 
Poker Zombie said:
After our last regular game, Mrs Zombie and I took out a sample from each of our setups and built a spreadsheet.

Note: All ratings are subjective. Anyone could run a similar test and have completely opposite results (hence why I hadn't posted this before).

Each category was rated on a 1-3 scale (1=poor, 2=average, 3=good). Then the "Good" earned bonus points in side by side comparisons and the poor lost points the same way. The points were then multiplied by a different amount in each category, since we deem some categories are more important than others.

Confused? Yeah, This isn't a paper for a doctoral thesis. It's the ramblings of a madman with Excel.

The categories are:
Shuffle: Self explanatory, but an important factor in our games. When players are eliminated from the tournament, one will deal for the table and the next ko will usually shuffle for the table. When you shuffle for 2 hours, you don't want cards that tire your hands out
Glide: In our self-dealt game, we had issues with cards not cards not covering the distance. We all blamed the surface, but I knew I had cleaned it the evening before the game. Turns out the cards are to blame. Some cards float the distance, some stick like mud.
Font: Reading the suite and the rank. We spread a handful out on the table, then read them from as far away from the table as possible. The idea being that my eyes are not going to start getting better as I get older. I have no 4 color decks, but I suspect they could have crushed this category.
Pickup: Lifting the cards off the surface following a flop or a wash. This factor is never talked about on PCF. Some cards just don't mesh. It's like sliding t bricks together. Sure, this could be considered "shuffle", but we both viewed it differently. We could not separate out the "good" rated ones here. They either came together, or they did not.

The results (from worst to first).:
Jdesign Classic Baroque (post Modiano) These were the replacements following the Modiano snafu. These had the absolute worst shuffle, tiring the fingers out in about a minute of riffle-riffle-riffle-cut repeat. they just kind of stick together making that last square before the next riffle a chore. They also had the worst glide, stopping under a foot from where they hit the speedcloth. On top of all that, they rated "poor" on font, with clubs and spades being difficult to distinguish the length of the table. The only good thing was the pickup, which matched 7 out of 9 decks. These are not available on the J Design website, so I suspect Jason was also not thrilled with the card stock.

Broken Arrow Poor shuffle, poor glide, and the worst font ever. I did like the open-top "4", but the 2s, 5s, 6s, 8s 9s, are so similar I question what they were thinking. On top of that, the unidirectional backs could make this a risky deck to play on. These had a pick-up rating of "average" - which was lower than the 7 decks rated as "good".

Jdesign Diamonds Another poor shuffle for Jdesign, and the same font as the Classic Baroque is not good for aging eyes. They do have excellent glide though, so you can get the cards to the far end of the table - you just cant tell a club from a spade.

Cartamundi Bravo This was the deck that launched the glide inquisition. A great shuffle and an easy to read font, but these need help getting to their destination. Excellent dealers probably love Cartamundi. I'm not an excellent dealer.

Piatnik/Kem Full disclosure, I only have Piatnik Bridge size in blue. To use them, I pair them with a deck of KEMs (USPC). So their rating was a combination of the 2 averaged together. This, unsurprisingly makes these setups more average than the rest. Both decks shuffle ok, and had excellent glide. The fonts are solid, and they pick up easily. The KEMs are not warped, but I do store them according to manufacturers specs. In a box, with extra cut cards to make them as tight as possible. The box is sealed with magnets, to keep the lid tight. The box is packed in desiccant, and sealed inside an airtight vault. The vault has been launched into space in an orbit designed to keep the earth between it and the sun. While re-entry is expensive, it is still cheaper than a new setup of KEMs.

Statesman @xdan 's foray into the card market went astonishingly well. Mrs Zombie and I could not reach a consensus determining if the shuffle was average or good, so we split the points. Where these excel is the font. You could read these from the far end of the table with the table in another room.

Bicycle Prestige Bicycles had a heyday on PCF some time ago as these bridge-sized plastic cards were being sold without boxes for a song. I picked up a seemingly lifetime supply, as these cards just haven't worn out despite heavy rotation. Excellent glide, above average shuffle, and an easy to read font. Literally nothing bad to say, except I had to gather boxes separately - which is fine, because Copags come with boxes.

Copag To the OP: no, you are not the only one that is happy with Copag. #2 overall on my chart, these had the best glide of the test. In the test, there is nothing bad to say about these, but I don't get how posters say they are durable. No other card fades as quickly as Copag. This is offset by their low cost, and throwing out a deck after two dozen games makes the nightly cost under $1 for the cards, and they provide boxes for your Bikes.

Fournier The winner in our test, but only narrowly nudging out Copag. Fournier scored 69 points over Copags 67.5. Fournier had the best shuffle, never getting tired during the test. The font is just average. As my eyes age, I might like these less but a good glide and excellent shuffle (which I am trying really hard to not compare to butter) will still make these a top contender for arthritic hands.

@Jonesey07 is planning to bring a setup of Faded Spades one night, which will cause a retest. I do like the font on the Faded Spades, though they are constantly sold out on their website, so it may be a while before I add them to the stable.
Click to expand...
You gotta try regular Modianos and Dal Negros
 
bigdonkey said:
Did you use an older deck of Broken Arrow? I've never used them, the primary reason being the font. But the latest run has a new font which I think solved the issue of confusing 5s, 6s, 8s and 9s.

View attachment 1384370
Click to expand...
It was one of the older decks - with the block-style fonts. I have not seen the type you show there.

If both exist in the wild, I would need to know the font before buying another setup.

LotsOfChips said:
My (limited) experience is the opposite. The blue and green cards in a four color decks are hard to read (IMO) from more than a few feet away, especially in low light.
Click to expand...
I've read that as well. I guess it would depend on the depth of colors used. I want to buy a bunch of 4 color decks to try out - but 10 years ago I said I wanted to try out different poker chips, and then this happened...
2020-04-02 17.02.55.jpg


Uggh - I just realized that pic is 4 years old, thus incomplete. :confused
 
elemeno said:
You gotta try regular Modianos and Dal Negros
Click to expand...
Modiano absolutely have the greatest shuffle. However, their inability to stand behind their product makes them worse than shit in my book, and they will never get a penny from my coffers.

I may not have the best of everything, but my moral standards are seldom in dispute. As for trying put Dal Negros, if someone loans me a setup I'd give them a try, but I wish to avoid the hoarding that I developed with chips. From here on out, I need to ditch something before I add much more. Perhaps keep the options to 10 different setups (lest I join pokercardforum.com).

Well, 10 different bridge setups. I also have Poker sized setups by various makers, but every time I pull out the Poker size, players want the Bridge sizes back.
 
Colquhoun said:
Interesting you found the Broken Arrow tough to shuffle. To me, even though they're more stiff than KEMs, they square up after a riffle smoother than any card I’ve ever shuffled.
Click to expand...
After reading this, less subjective test. I shuffled 3 different decks, but for the riffle I used 1 hand, with the second hand replaced by a scale:
2024-09-06 13.20.59.jpg


The Broken Arrows needed 5.3 oz of force. The Piatnik (middle) 3.4 oz and the JDesign 4.7 oz. Even with this objective evidence, some may prefer the stiffer card in their shuffling, casting aside the extra 1.9 oz of force in favor of... control mashing the deck square? I'm not really sure. As I've said, anyone can run the same tests and get different results based on their individual needs/preferences.
 
In my personal experiece, COPAGs are great cards that last a long time. I haven't been a member of PCF for very long, but it does seem like there is a majority that favors the super elite items. For everyday use for the average person, they are well priced, accessible, and certainly not an option anyone should hate on too much.
 
ontheriver51 said:
In my personal experiece, COPAGs are great cards that last a long time. I haven't been a member of PCF for very long, but it does seem like there is a majority that favors the super elite items. For everyday use for the average person, they are well priced, accessible, and certainly not an option anyone should hate on too much.
Click to expand...

I bet the normies would consider anything above a regular Bicycle paper card deck "super elite".
 
You can call Copags a lot of things, but 'durable' isn't one of them. The ink fades faster than any other premium brand (several of which seemingly NEVER fade).

If not for the loss of integrity (fading = marked cards), Copag's are otherwise fine. But it's a deal-breaker for me.

Prefer most Fournier, some Dejign models, obsolete Bicycle Prestige and Gemaco Superflex.

Haven't seen Angel cards, but suspect they would become favored. Have new Broken Arrows, but not yet felted.

Hard pass on KEM, Faded Spade, and ModiaNO.
 
COPAGs, because of their availability, pricing and performance, are a good benchmark to compare other decks with.

But perhaps aside from the glide and shuffability, which was brought up in this thread, it doesnt do much else in a superior manner.

Its visuals (for me) are mediocre, as is its color depth (kinda washed out reds).

As someone pointed out earlier, it fades earlier than other brands, my experience bears this out.

Also, it isnt particularly resistant to warping.

With that in mind, there is a deal on Amazon where you can get 12 decks of Unique for around $90....
 
Poker Zombie said:
Copag To the OP: no, you are not the only one that is happy with Copag. #2 overall on my chart, these had the best glide of the test. In the test, there is nothing bad to say about these, but I don't get how posters say they are durable. No other card fades as quickly as Copag. This is offset by their low cost, and throwing out a deck after two dozen games makes the nightly cost under $1 for the cards, and they provide boxes for your Bikes.
Click to expand...
Low cost??? At $20/setup I'd put them in the premium price category. The low cost segment is closer to $10/setup.
 
Phoe9x said:
I enjoy my copags, the only issue I have is the top card sliding when I place the deck down. I haven’t expanded my wings yet, so I’m planning on getting a set of Desjgn’s to see how those compare.
Click to expand...
Usually you can fix the top card thing by pressing down on it with your finger once you set the deck down.
 
InBobWeTrust said:
As the title states, I simply prefer Copag cards over everything else I have tried. They are reasonably priced, easy to obtain, have an "egg shell" texture I love, and I also really like their design/aesthetic. They are also durable. I once used the same set of cards for 2 years of very consistent use in a weekly home game.

These seem like a compromise for most, but they are my go-to set of cards.

View attachment 1383873
Click to expand...
Short answer: YES

Long answer: DEFINITELY
 
What I've found after many years: Copag, IMO like it's competitor KEM were fantastic cards. I used to love Copag although ive always felt they were relatively "thin". In recent years though, I've leaned away because they seem to suffer from ink-loss leaving distinguishable marks on the backs. Bicycle Prestige also suffers from this, albeit at a fraction of the price.
I now use Bicycle Prestige because they offer a nice hefty card that come in cheaper than almost all other acetate cards and feel close to Dal Negro and old Modianos. I guess, for me and amount of cards we go through, Copag aren't a good fit based mostly on price and slightly for feel.
Just my 2c.
 
Here in Finland, Copag was for a long time the only one you could get if you didn't buy online. The cards are good in appearance and handling. I did manage to break one card in the shuffle though, it got bent a bit and it's marked.

It's a shame because the deck didn't even make it to the game. I personally like Fournier cards and they are available well in Europe.
 

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