Cash vs Tournaments preference? (1 Viewer)

[trigs]

^^This. When you invite friends, they book their evening to come to your house.
It's not nice or doesnt't make much sense to have someone get permission by the higher echelon (ie the wife) only to be told to f*ck off the table and just drink alone after two hours of play.
If there is a cash game afterwards, why not right from the start?

I agree. The next game I host I'm offering a tournament and cash game. I'm hoping the tournament will convince a few more people to come out but it will be capped at 20 with a third table open for cash games right away. Best of both worlds.

 

[mike32]

Cash for me. I absolutely hate busting out of a tournament early and having my night of poker over. This is even worse as a host who can't leave and has to wait around and watch others having fun. Also hosting tournaments is more difficult because you need everyone there on time etc. Poker nights are too rare to not play as long as I want to, win or lose.
I still enjoy tournament poker though, especially ones like the league tournament I am hosting this Saturday that is sandwiched between two cash games! Has nothing to do with profitability for me, it's all about the action!

 

[BGinGA]

When we run joint cash/tournament dates, we start with the cash game and end with the tournament. If you're late, no big deal -- have a seat at the cash table. When you bust out of the tournament, you get to leave (or start another cash game, if so inclined).

 

[JScott]

It’s funny, so many reasons I love cash games are mentioned by you guys.

I know it’s not always about profitability, especially amongst friends but in my OP I mentioned the tourney I played in. And in that case a cash game would have been insanely profitable, the guys buying in like idiots and rolling the dice the first hour would have made me a huge profit and then I could have left when I wanted. The problem was I didn’t want to stay and play “all in or fold“ for the next 3-4 hours with maniacs.

I get they’re not all like that. But man, I’ve really started enjoying poker since we went to a cash format.

 

[Gobbs]

To me, asking if you prefer tournaments or cash games is like asking if you prefer to play baseball or softball. It is a valid question and both are great to play, and there are certainly a lot of similarities, but there are some very key differences in skill sets that make them entirely different games. They both have pros and cons. It’s just personal preference. Neither is better, just more preferred.

 

[ekricket]

It seems to me that busting out early in a tournament is the same as losing your first buyin at the cash table - your felted either way. Of course the difference is that you can reload in a cash game, which is also probably why rebuy tournaments are so popular.

I’m amazed at the number of people who say they bust out early in tourneys but their cash games are always profitable - but when I’m at a cash table all I hear about are the bad beats that everyone had when they lost thousands of dollars.

Just an observation, not saying one format is better than the other. Poker players are horrible record keepers, and confirmation bias runs deep - even though we always keep getting sucked out on, or running bad, or have continuous bad beats, we are still winning players in our minds.

 

[JScott]

It seems to me that busting out early in a tournament is the same as losing your first buyin at the cash table - your felted either way. Of course the difference is that you can reload in a cash game, which is also probably why rebuy tournaments are so popular.

I’m amazed at the number of people who say they bust out early in tourneys but their cash games are always profitable - but when I’m at a cash table all I hear about are the bad beats that everyone had when they lost thousands of dollars.

Just an observation, not saying one format is better than the other. Poker players are horrible record keepers, and confirmation bias runs deep - even though we always keep getting sucked out on, or running bad, or have continuous bad beats, we are still winning players in our minds.

the main difference between busting out of a tournament or cash, is when you rebuy your chips are always worth the same as your buy in and your chance to win the money back is nearly equal (stack size still matters in cash obviously).

I also hate committing to 4-5 hours of poker. Don’t get me wrong, love the game, but if action isn’t good or I’m not feeling it, I don’t like that I can’t get up and walk away, it’s a control thing too.

I also don’t really love the unlimited rebuy tournaments. They have potential to be all in or fold donkfests.

 

[AnteAndy]

Cash.

I started out playing only tournaments, but it didn't hit me til I played cash games. Felt there was more skill more creativity in play in cash than tournament poker ever could give, even if playing deepstacked. Tournaments just become the lottery when it's literally shove or fold when the final table comes. And playing poker for me is more than just for profit. You can technically control your wins/loses more, can win a little, win a lot, lose a little, lose a lot.

It's funny since I'm a very competitive person, used to play sports and games, but can't do that anymore, and I just don't like tournaments much. But I believe cash is pure poker with more skill, not worry about the blinds shrinking your stack and then perform hail Mary shoves eventually.

Plus I feel it's petty when people compare between the two when you can reload in cash, and tournaments you can't, even though you don't necessarily have to in cash.

 

[Legend5555]

Cash.

I started out playing only tournaments, but it didn't hit me til I played cash games. Felt there was more skill more creativity in play in cash than tournament poker ever could give, even if playing deepstacked. Tournaments just become the lottery when it's literally shove or fold when the final table comes. And playing poker for me is more than just for profit. You can technically control your wins/loses more, can win a little, win a lot, lose a little, lose a lot.

It's funny since I'm a very competitive person, used to play sports and games, but can't do that anymore, and I just don't like tournaments much. But I believe cash is pure poker with more skill, not worry about the blinds shrinking your stack and then perform hail Mary shoves eventually.

Plus I feel it's petty when people compare between the two when you can reload in cash, and tournaments you can't, even though you don't necessarily have to in cash.

I think there is still edge to be had on short stacked tournament situations. Everything except the higher buy in tourneys that stay somewhere deep even into the final table just get to fairly easy shove/fold decisions toward the end. Even if you know that stuff well, the edge isn't gigantic.

I like tournaments as a break or "treat" every now and then. I say break because as you get deeper, the decisions become a little easier once you know the math fairly well.

 

[Meathooke]

Voted cash myself..

The biggest reason being: Anyone can play for as long as they like. No one is ever "out" of the game. Somebody takes a bad beat or does something stupid early in the evening, they're not sequestered to the rail for the remainder of the night. Rebuy and keep on playin'.
The other big one is: Cash games are not (necessarily) an "all or nothing" venture. It's not a matter of you either win, or you lose everything.

That said, I'm not opposed to tourneys at all... I just prefer cash.

 

[K1100lt]

Began as strictly a tourney player. Hooked up with the SE Mich crew and now play more cash than tourneys. I like both.

 

[MattyMatt]

What justifies your preference of one over the other?

For me it's what others have said before (home games only). Briefly, positives (+) and negatives (-);

Cash;

+ lets people come and go
- sometimes it takes too long before enough players are there to start
+ each hand a somewhat clean slate

Tourney;

+ everything predetermined, meaning buy-ins, price pool etc
+ the potential of large guaranteed payouts, which is exciting
+ the strategic element can be interesting.. sometimes..
- shove-fest some evenings
- shitty structures some evenings
- the possibility of playing great for hours and then busting when someone does something stupid
- can take a looong time to finish
- in some games people leave when they bust, and so at the end two-three people remain, which isn't very social

I prefer cash games I think. I used to hate tournaments but I started playing more strategically and started cashing pretty much every game we played (same group). That said, I still prefer cash because of the above.

 

[Steve Birrer]

Tournaments but some of that may be because of the local cash game I have played and they way its played.

1. I really dislike cash when they allow stradles. It just inflates the stakes of the game. The game I play is .25/.50. Then UTG straddles and then sometimes UTG+1 straddles and now that game is really $1/$2 game. And that's fine for those who WANT to play at those stakes. But its a total joke to say you are having a .25/.50 cash game when almost every hand is straddled and often times twice. If you want to play at those stakes fine. Just make your game at that level.

2. I find that cash game ends up being more of an all infest than the same players in a tournament. As an example. The last time I played I was UTG with AK and raised 3X (already discussed this on the strategy section so not going to rehash that here). Got two folds then a guy 3bets to 8X of my raise. Then that gets called. Turns out that caller had Q 9 os and of course she ended up winning. The mindset seems to be no bid deal if they loose they just reload and bet even crazier. And they seem to win doing that. I guess next time I will just play ultra tight unless I have am super strong post flop and maybe I'll change my tune.

 

[JustinInMN]

My dislike of tournaments mostly stems from playing really well, getting to the final table and then as the blinds increase it comes down to luck when I shove and get called or someone else shoves and I call of who is going to win the coin flip. The lack of post flop play in late stage tournaments annoys me. Spend 5+ hours to go out a few spots from the money sucks. Hell, even a min cash after a long day is nothing to write home about.

Couldn't agree more. I don't hate tournaments, but these are all the reasons I think cash is better.

Unless they are over about 50 years of age. Most of the people my age learned to play in nickel/dime/quarter cash games, using real change. Later we graduated to plastic Hoyle interlocking chips!

I am under 50 (37), but this is how I learned. Around age 7 my uncle had a green bucket with hundreds of these kinds of chips and he thought me draw and stud and a plethora of wild card games.

I didn't really have a concept of tournament poker until the early 2000s (my late teens/early 20s) from ESPN, pre hole card camera, mind you.

I’ve since met a couple of guys who can play $0.05/$0.10 or $2/$5 and treat the game just as seriously either way, and I respect them a lot for it.

I like to think I am one of these players , but I haven't played as high as 2-5, in NL anyway.

 

[Gobbs]

It is really amazing me how many people complain about tournaments being shovefests before finishing in the money. If that was my experience, I may not like them as much either. Don’t get me wrong, it happens and I get it, but overall, the tournaments I play in usually burst the cash bubble before there is little play left.

 

[shorticus]

I prefer cash games when I'm at home, but definitely prefer tournaments at the casino.

 

[Coyote]

Tournaments but some of that may be because of the local cash game I have played and they way its played.

1. I really dislike cash when they allow stradles. It just inflates the stakes of the game. The game I play is .25/.50. Then UTG straddles and then sometimes UTG+1 straddles and now that game is really $1/$2 game. And that's fine for those who WANT to play at those stakes. But its a total joke to say you are having a .25/.50 cash game when almost every hand is straddled and often times twice. If you want to play at those stakes fine. Just make your game at that level.

I have written this repeatedly. Straddles are uncivilised and absurd rural bullshit, a stupid and least cunning way of ignoring and bypassing the stakes, intending to lure clueless people into a game of stakes higher than they can afford, i.e. looking for suckers.
Don't ever play in such a game, and don't ever allow it in your house. It's unrelated to cash, in general. Just say no.

 

[SeanGecko]

I have written this repeatedly. Straddles are uncivilised and absurd rural bullshit, a stupid and least cunning way of ignoring and bypassing the stakes, intending to lure clueless people into a game of stakes higher than they can afford, i.e. looking for suckers.
Don't ever play in such a game, and don't ever allow it in your house. It's unrelated to cash, in general. Just say no.

It is also super fun. If it's good enough for Doyle it's good enough for me.

 

[Coyote]

If it's good enough for Doyle it's good enough for me.

Presuming you 're as good at poker as Doyle, or superior to Doyle, who could play, in his early years, even with armed criminals and regulate his winnings in order to avoid crossing the red line, where the criminals' guns would be stuck on his head

 

[SeanGecko]

Presuming you 're as good at poker as Doyle, or superior to Doyle, who could play, in his early years, even with armed criminals and regulate his winnings in order to avoid crossing the red line, where the criminals' guns would be stuck on his head

Ummmm, are you okay?

 

[Coyote]

Ummmm, are you okay?

Never mind

 

[SeanGecko]

The straddles came up in our game due to him playing with Guy (Gi), Negrenu, and Ivey on High Stakes Poker. I don't see those guy holding a gun to Texas DOlly's head.

 

[JustinInMN]

@Coyote is obviously referring to a part of Brunson's career that predates public cardrooms and the poker beginning it's road toward mainstream acceptance.

But I suppose we are at the point that the only way anyone under 50 understands this is by reading books.

 

[SeanGecko]

@Coyote is obviously referring to a part of Brunson's career that predates public cardrooms and the poker beginning it's road toward mainstream acceptance.

But I suppose we are at the point that the only way anyone under 50 understands this is by reading books.

Oh I know what he's a talking about. But by that logic no one should play poker unless they can do what Doyle can do. And that's ummmmmm 1 in a billion or so

 

[JScott]

We’re getting a bit off topic here, but coyote makes a bit of a point there with straddling. Albeit very blunt. That said I’d allow it periodically from UTG.

part of the reason I don’t mind us travel to two times the big blind is every hand should have an open to at least three big blinds Unless it’s folded around to the small blind and they limp.

 

[abby99]

Cash games, especially mixed games, ftw.

Cash >>> Tournaments >> Nothing
Mixed games >>> NLHE >> Nothing

 

[Lil Tuna]

Prefer mixed cash games but enjoy a well structured tournament from time to time.

 

[Gobbs]

Prefer mixed cash games but enjoy a well structured tournament from time to time.

I think that’s a good way to put it: well-structured. For me, it’s:

Well-structured Tournament > Cash Game > Nothing > Horribly-structured Tournament

Fortunately, I have access to many well-structured tournaments.

 

[FiveThous]

Are there cards? Are there people who are fun to hang out with? Are there cold drinks? That's all I need to play cards, I'll play whatever. I tend to host tournaments because I have a wider range of skill in my game and tournaments tend to level the playing field and keep people coming back. I grew up playing dealers choice, so you name it and I'll play it.

 

[JScott]

Are there cards? Are there people who are fun to hang out with? Are there cold drinks? That's all I need to play cards, I'll play whatever. I tend to host tournaments because I have a wider range of skill in my game and tournaments tend to level the playing field and keep people coming back. I grew up playing dealers choice, so you name it and I'll play it.

this is key. In my OP I mention that and I realized just how important that aspect is.

I try and make a table fun, even if at the casino. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. At home I only invite the fun ones.