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Check my line...squeeze play in Live $1/$1 nlhe (1 Viewer)

Marc Hedrick said:
Why bet so much on the flop when a smaller bet will accomplish the same thing? I suggested 1/3 pot, but maybe even a little smaller is optimal. You said if we get a caller we might be 'hosed' -- Are you suggesting that you're betting half pot on the flop with two pair as a bluff? Worse hands can definitely call here.

It's much easier to play this hand after you've 3 bet because you can get credit for having all the top sets, AK, etc -- as well has having a lower SPR. Calling here is horrible from out of position IMO. Squeezing gets lots of better aces to fold, yet may keep in some hands we're ahead of.
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You're right. I think 1/3 pot would do it as half is probably a bit too much as worse hands are more likely to call the smaller bet. No, I'm not suggesting betting 1/2 the pot as a bluff, it was more of an arbitrary sizing because I mix it up my bet sizing a lot. I also mix up my play in situations like this. I do agree with you that 3-betting here can make better aces fold as well as disguise your hand Ad3d when AK3 comes on the flop (makes players wonder if you have AK). However, I also believe that small and medium suited connectors and small suited aces work great with a lot of people in the pot when you get your draw.
 
Taghkanic said:
Not sure I agree. The raise was to $7, over two limpers, in a 1/1 game, with the blinds yet to act.

So there is $11 in the pot. It will cost the blinds and the limpers $29 to call the $30 raise, and the initial raiser $23.

That seems more than large enough to either take it down or isolate the initial raiser.

I don’t see how making it $45-$50 would accomplish much more. Yeah, you’d take it down somewhat more often, but when called you’re in a world of trouble. Is the $11 worth it? This has to work maybe 75-80% of the time just to break even.

If anything I might go for more like $20-25 because of the stack size issue you mention, expecting to take it down less often but have more pot sized bets left to keep pressure on as needed.
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$29 in the pot already to our Hero. Standard 3 bet OOP is about 4x, but then you have to adjust for the callers. $28 + 7 + 7 + 7 = $49. A pot sized raise would be to $42. It's too easy for people in position to call when you make small 3 bets. At 30, it's $23 more to call into a pot that is now $58, that's better than 2.5 to 1. Not sure how you fold anything in position getting 2.5 to 1 or better unless it has no playability post flop. If the initial raiser calls, nobody is going to fold.
 
Following to learn. I have close to zero experience playing at this level. I was immediately thinking $20 on the flop to induce a call, so was thrilled to see that's what you did. I would probably bet $50-60 on the turn. That seems like enough to get a fold if villain is chasing a flush. If he calls he might still only have Aces or Kings, or you might be toast if he flopped the flush or a set and he is letting you cook yourself.
 
Legend5555 said:
True, but that study doesn't often include squeezing against limp, limp, 7x, call, call, call. :LOL: :laugh:
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This actually might be the most correct line of the entire thread!

I was thinking about this in the shower this morning, and I think I played it as if I was playing online, not live against how live players play. Not sure it would have mattered in the end, but this was my biggest mistake I think.
 
TX_Golf_N_Poker said:
That seems like enough to get a fold if villain is chasing a flush.
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We actually want a call from people chasing a flush. Once we are on the turn and we figure 4 spades accounted for, he only has 9*2=18% chance of hitting his card....and he doesnt want to hit the :5s:, so we are actually even better from a theoretical standpoint.
 
OK, hope I get my numbers right....get out your calculators:

Hero is thinking he is surely good here, but Button might still be slow playing a flopped flush. My thought was to bet small again to target worse aces...specifically AQ or AJ, or a hand with a spade that villain is just not going to fold. My thought was specifically, if he just calls, we are surely ahead.

Hero bets $40
Villain tank calls

River: :4h:


(Villain has $86 left in his stack, Hero covers. Whatever doesnt add up, it was from a previous mistake. This was definitely his stack after the turn call)
 
If you go big here you will let V play perfectly and only flushes will call. I’d bet 1/3 again looking to get called by Ax or Kx and if he has a set you’re limiting your losses. There are more Ax and Kx than set combos but sets are possible as 33 is in range (but only one combo) and maybe AK, AA and KK flat pre at these stakes at some frequencies. I think it is very likely that you are ahead but need to choose a size that worse hands will call and that is tough on a monotone board.
 
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boltonguy said:
If you go big here you will let V play perfectly and only flushes will call. I’d bet 1/3 again looking to get called by Ax or Kx and if he has a set you’re limiting your losses. There are more Ax and Kx than set combos but sets are possible as 33 is in range and maybe AA and KK flat pre at these stakes at some frequencies.
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I think a jam is only about 1/3 on the river, no?
 
Typing on my phone at a stoplight so don’t recall pot and stacks. I thought we bet 1/3 pot and 1/3 turn. Did we go bigger?
 
I’d bet half our stack or 20%. I think putting all of it in might look too strong to get a call by worse even though it is less than 1/2 pot. If V jams we have enough left for a cheeseburger. I could get behind a X here as well. I think a limp/call pre puts suited connectors & gappers in range. IP a flopped flush plays it like V imho
 
grebe said:
OK, hope I get my numbers right....get out your calculators:

Hero is thinking he is surely good here, but Button might still be slow playing a flopped flush. My thought was to bet small again to target worse aces...specifically AQ or AJ, or a hand with a spade that villain is just not going to fold. My thought was specifically, if he just calls, we are surely ahead.

Hero bets $40
Villain tank calls

River: :4h:


(Villain has $86 left in his stack, Hero covers. Whatever doesnt add up, it was from a previous mistake. This was definitely his stack after the turn call)
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I’m very confused by this bet sizing. Feels way too cute. Just shove the turn here. River in effect doesn’t matter much because there is now so much in the middle. I would shove the river also but the runout isn’t ideal so I won’t be too shocked if we end up losing here. I think the flop bet was a bit small, but OK. The turn is a 100% jam because we want to do that with full range (all our value + our KsQx type of hands).
 
Senzrock said:
I’m very confused by this bet sizing. Feels way too cute. Just shove the turn here.
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It's ok to be confused, as I don't think I was correct.

My thinking was more to string along a hand like AQ or AJ, not necessarily what I should be doing. I was probably wrong, which is why I posted.

Very interesting that @boltonguy is pretty much right beside me, as we both play more online than live, where preflop bets are smaller and players are generally tighter.
 
I agree - I’m looking to get calls from Ax and possibly Kx but Vs range contains plenty of flopped flushes given the Preflop action imho. Even with redraw to a boat I want to keep flop and turn bets small to get called wide and avoid shoveling my stack into a flush.
 
Legend5555 said:
$29 in the pot already to our Hero. Standard 3 bet OOP is about 4x, but then you have to adjust for the callers. $28 + 7 + 7 + 7 = $49. A pot sized raise would be to $42. It's too easy for people in position to call when you make small 3 bets. At 30, it's $23 more to call into a pot that is now $58, that's better than 2.5 to 1. Not sure how you fold anything in position getting 2.5 to 1 or better unless it has no playability post flop. If the initial raiser calls, nobody is going to fold.
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I had the positions and action confused, At the time that Hero made the squeeze bet, I thought there was only the $7 raise with blinds and two limpers left to act, i.e. $11 in the pot.
 
grebe said:
It's ok to be confused, as I don't think I was correct.

My thinking was more to string along a hand like AQ or AJ, not necessarily what I should be doing. I was probably wrong, which is why I posted.

Very interesting that @boltonguy is pretty much right beside me, as we both play more online than live, where preflop bets are smaller and players are generally tighter.
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This is where live and online are very different. Live you have to deal with way more multiway pots at the lower limits. These spots aren't really solved. Still good to take lessons on bet sizing and preflop ranges from GTO. But often live at lower stakes, you can just play off your opponents range and your exact hand and be totally fine.

Like in this example, online you are basically never going to see a double flatter from late position. What does that range even look like? From playing a lot of live, is going to be lots of pairs up to possibly JJ, almost all broadways suited and off suit, suited Aces, and some occasional suited connectors.

On turn, we don't want to be concerned with stringing along the super weak stuff. We want to put the top pair, pair + FD, and naked spade to a decision. One where they might often just call even though it's silly. All the other hands are just going to fold to almost any bet. Will you sometimes run into a flush? Yup. But that's not as big a portion of their range as the other junk that might still pay you off. I don't even think letting them get there is the main concern, more that we don't want to have an action killer come and then be in no man's land OOP on the river.
 
grebe said:
We actually want a call from people chasing a flush. Once we are on the turn and we figure 4 spades accounted for, he only has 9*2=18% chance of hitting his card....and he doesnt want to hit the :5s:, so we are actually even better from a theoretical standpoint.
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Like I said, I don't play these stakes so my thinking was take down the pot if I'm ahead so I don't get sucked out. But not shove because I could easily be behind. It seems that whenever I am ahead without the nuts, and utilize bet sizes that induce calls, my opponents river me. Odds be damned!

Edit: Or they have the nuts and they are slow playing me. If I had the nuts I'd be playing this hand exactly the way villain is playing it.
 
Let's put a bow on this bitch:

Yes, I finally get around to shoving. I ask how much he has, he gives me a count...$86 and I say "I bet that" and put a stack in front...I get a few laughs from the table, then say "all in" to make it official. He goes DEEP in the tank....like two minutes. At first I think I'm good, then he starts mumbling about me having a set of kings, but he doesnt want to fold. Now I am confused. No flush is good right?

He finally calls, I flip mine and say two pair, he says "me too" and flips up :ac: :kh:

WHAT?!?
 
grebe said:
Let's put a bow on this bitch:

Yes, I finally get around to shoving. I ask how much he has, he gives me a count...$86 and I say "I bet that" and put a stack in front...I get a few laughs from the table, then say "all in" to make it official. He goes DEEP in the tank....like two minutes. At first I think I'm good, then he starts mumbling about me having a set of kings, but he doesnt want to fold. Now I am confused. No flush is good right?

He finally calls, I flip mine and say two pair, he says "me too" and flips up :ac: :kh:

WHAT?!?
Click to expand...
Makes sense to me. Your big pre-flop bet says high pocket pair or suited A or high suited connectors to me. After that he just went along calling your raises with a strong hand. It was too good to get away from, and ended up being good enough. He tanked at the end thinking you either hit the flush or hit a set on the flop.
 
grebe said:
Let's put a bow on this bitch:

Yes, I finally get around to shoving. I ask how much he has, he gives me a count...$86 and I say "I bet that" and put a stack in front...I get a few laughs from the table, then say "all in" to make it official. He goes DEEP in the tank....like two minutes. At first I think I'm good, then he starts mumbling about me having a set of kings, but he doesnt want to fold. Now I am confused. No flush is good right?

He finally calls, I flip mine and say two pair, he says "me too" and flips up :ac: :kh:

WHAT?!?
Click to expand...
His play isn't completely unreasonable except that he didn't 3 bet himself pre.
 

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