Controversial Chip & Poker Opinions (12 Viewers)

you make it sound almost mysterious

TP numbers are not available.

You mean the guys who ordered them and sold them to us won’t tell us the numbers. They could, but they won’t.

Most/all TCR sales since HSI and JD are not available.

The Chip Room used to tell us the numbers after he sold through the inventory - I wasn’t aware he stopped. But I can’t think of any good reason not to tell us after the sale is over.

Paulson would never have allowed “even” distributions to be produced at the time those sets were produced.

You mean they had to make it look like the chips were purchased for an actual casino, to sneak the sale through.

I’m not just trying to be a dick here. But a lot of people join PCF and the first things they ask are questions about sets like Tigers, or where to get Paulsons in general. I’d rather just answer those questions as completely as possible.
 
And I didn’t buy any, so it’s kinda none of my business anyway. But when you own something rare, it’s nice to know exactly how rare it is. Like, do I own one rack of 20 in existence or 200? So as a chipper, I wish we had all the information that exists.
 
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you make it sound almost mysterious



You mean the guys who ordered them and sold them to us won’t tell us the numbers. They could, but they won’t.



The Chip Room used to tell us the numbers after he sold through the inventory - I wasn’t aware he stopped. But I can’t think of any good reason not to tell us after the sale is over.



You mean they had to make it look like the chips were purchased for an actual casino, to sneak the sale through.

I’m not just trying to be a dick here. But a lot of people join PCF and the first things they ask are questions about sets like Tigers, or where to get Paulsons in general. I’d rather just answer those questions as completely as possible.
Yes. Agreed on all points. I haven’t been around here long enough to be able to say those things. HSI was the last sale TCR released public numbers. Steppenwolf gave me JD numbers privately, and someone else recently gave me HSCleveland numbers privately.
 
Paulson would never have allowed “even” distributions to be produced at the time those sets were produced.

You mean they had to make it look like the chips were purchased for an actual casino, to sneak the sale through.

Source? I don't agree with this idea at all, no matter how it's phrased.

It's my position that Paulson couldn't care less what breakdown you order. If it turns out to be stupid, and you've ordered way too many 25c chips or way too few $5 chips, then they get to sell you some more chips later. Besides, how do they have any idea what your casino's needs are? Maybe you have a plan to spread a 25-cent limit game. What does the breakdown for a "real casino" look like? I'll bet the two-table cardroom in California has a pretty different breakdown from the 200-table casino in New Jersey.
 
I’m surprised, but not shocked. And I didn’t buy any, so it’s kinda none of my business anyway. But when you own something rare, it’s nice to know exactly how rare it is. Like, do I own one rack of 20 in existence or 200? So as a chipper, I wish we had all the information that exists.
Cool. When you front the cash and the work to do it I’m sure you’ll do just that.
 
Source? I don't agree with this idea at all, no matter how it's phrased.

It's my position that Paulson couldn't care less what breakdown you order. If it turns out to be stupid, and you've ordered way too many 25c chips or way too few $5 chips, then they get to sell you some more chips later. Besides, how do they have any idea what your casino's needs are? Maybe you have a plan to spread a 25-cent limit game. What does the breakdown for a "real casino" look like? I'll bet the two-table cardroom in California has a different breakdown from the 200-table casino in New Jersey.
I remember after the first Stars NAGBs, at least one guy on the inside shared a lot of information about how it went down. According to him, they were careful about the amounts of chips they ordered because they wanted it to look like a typical casino order, because they didn’t want to raise any eyebrows, because they were hoping to continue ordering more chips.
I know nothing about the Tigers; I was just assuming a similar modus operandi.
 
I remember after the first Stars NAGBs, at least one guy on the inside shared a lot of information about how it went down. According to him, they were careful about the amounts of chips they ordered because they wanted it to look like a typical casino order, because they didn’t want to raise any eyebrows, because they were hoping to continue ordering more chips.
Fair enough, but my point is that this is/was an assumption on the part of the people doing the ordering.

There is zero evidence that Paulson would have nixed the order because the breakdown was weird.
 
Fair enough, but my point is that this is/was an assumption on the part of the people doing the ordering.

There is zero evidence that Paulson would have nixed the order because the breakdown was weird.
Very true. And I’ve also often speculated that at least a Paulson sales rep was aware of what was going on.
But you’re right, what I’ve said is 100% speculation based on inferences and hearsay.
 
Fair enough, but my point is that this is/was an assumption on the part of the people doing the ordering.

There is zero evidence that Paulson would have nixed the order because the breakdown was weird.
Sure but there are only a few people truly qualified to comment on this, and it is my understanding additional chip allocation orders did stop at some point (or else there would be way more ES $100s than what’s out there).

This whole topic might be a moot point going forward.
 
it is my understanding additional chip allocation orders did stop at some point (or else there would be way more ES $100s than what’s out there).
Again, my point is that any limitations on the breakdowns that could be ordered were put there by the GB organizers, not by Paulson.
 
Transparency can only help.

We don't have even a remote set of rules/ideas on a uniform standard for measuring quality/condition of chips.
There is no agreement on what filters, if any, and uniform lighting should be used in photos of chips.
There are no general guidelines on sharing information regarding sales, public or private.
If we had a definition for flippers, tradebaiters, hoarders and other negative connotation descriptions, I'm guessing (completely wild, subjective guess) it would apply to 95+% of active, veteran members.

If we can't even agree on basic, fundamental definitions (and uphold those) in a not-so-large community that trades almost 100% in one commodity - why would we expect transparency from vendors?

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
 
And if I had to guess, this is as good as it will ever get - barring some crazy change like Paulson selling to individuals again.

Everyday there's one more member, everyday there's one less find out there, everyday the next group buy becomes a little harder.

I might be unhappy, but I wouldn't complain about vendors. And I might want more transparency forum wide, but I know that's not happening and no point in pushing for it.
 
NAGB chips shouldn’t be considered rare nor collectors. But for personal use. That’s how I treated them. And it’s none of our business to ask what a vendor he has or doesn’t.
 
Why not? If only 100 chips of a certain type are known to exist, that makes them rare, regardless of what they are.
Fair enough but I just wouldn’t treat them as valuable collection items is all. How do we really “know” the counts going forward. If you value rarity I’m assuming ur hoping them to hold value or go up in value etc.
 
And it’s none of our business to ask what a vendor he has or doesn’t.
Why though? I understand and support Tigers, Sunset Beach, etc. amounts not being shared by those sellers/vendors. It makes business and financial sense.

I think it becomes a bit murky though when it comes to certain actions that do affect pricing and such.

If I bought IGs from a vendor, and I received beaten to hell bike tires, but I see presale sets that are pristine and orders all over the globe that have near mint racks with no issues, I'm going to be at least slightly confused.

If it's a lottery and the sale is put forth as "Condition has extreme variation, you get what you get and don't throw a fit", fine. Otherwise, it's a solid example where maybe some additional information would be helpful.
 
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And it’s none of our business to ask what a vendor he has or doesn’t.
I don’t know. I already said it’s none of my business. But as somebody who likes to talk chips and who likes to answer questions and pass along whatever knowledge I’ve scraped together, I’ll always push for information. It’s nice to have, especially in a hobby that is so lacking in information.
A long time ago I bought some BCC fun nites. I ended up owning a rack of T5s. After I bought them, somebody told me that only 4 racks of those existed. It was confirmed by other chippers. At the end of the day, I sold them for the same price I paid for them, because I realized I’d never use them. But after finding out how rare they were (and thus tough to reacquire) you can bet I never would have sold them if I thought I’d ever use them.
All I’m saying is that information is good, and I’ll keep asking.
 
If I bought IGs from a vendor, and I received beaten to hell bike tires, but I see presale sets that are pristine and orders all over the globe that have near mint racks with no issues, I'm going to be at least slightly confused
the issue is us chippers have a more nuanced approach to condition. the vendor in question only has 2. new/unused and not new/used. from all the sales I have seen from them this approach has been consistant and they have always maintained they dont sort for condition. So when buying used from them, one should always expect condition to be mixed.
 
the issue is us chippers have a more nuanced approach to condition. the vendor in question only has 2. new/unused and not new/used. from all the sales I have seen from them this approach has been consistant and they have always maintained they dont sort for condition. So when buying used from them, one should always expect condition to be mixed.
Yeah I tried to make the same arguments, defending the vendor of that particular sale. But @BarrieJ3 makes a fair point, when you look at the big picture of that sale.
 
Yeah I tried to make the same arguments, defending the vendor of that particular sale. But @BarrieJ3 makes a fair point, when you look at the big picture of that sale.
i bought the chips with the expectation they would be used. i had no expectation they would be anything but that. Yes I might be biased because I am one of those people that benefited from recieving chips in condtion that exceeded my expectation. I see his side, but you cant really be upset from an expectation that one created for themselves especially when the vendor has been consistent with their approach.
 
I'll just leave it at this.

I do believe it's fucking ridiculous that I can go to sell somewhat popular chips, and have 0 clue as to the appropriate price because every single thing is hidden or private.

Everything PM is incoming from buyers, all sellers listing at astronomically high prices that chips will never sell for so they field private offers and never post what the actual sale was, etc.

I'm not complaining, I understand why it is this way and how we ended up here, but doesn't change the fact that it's rediculous.
 
i bought the chips with the expectation they would be used. i had no expectation they would be anything but that. Yes I might be biased because I am one of those people that benefited from recieving chips in condtion that exceeded my expectation. I see his side, but you cant really be upset from an expectation that one created for themselves especially when the vendor has been consistent with their approach.
Again, I originally defended the chip room on this one, for all the reasons you’ve given.
But I couldn’t remember another chip room sale where significant quantities of chips went out that were in noticeably worse condition than the ones pictured in the sale thread. But that’s exactly what happened here. And it must have been especially frustrating that all the presale and private sale $5s that were posted in the pron threads were near mint, if you ended up with chips that were looked excellent minus - fleabitten and worn.
Personally I’m happy to give TCR a mulligan on this one because I expect it was an honest mistake. And the bottom line is that I’m sure he would have accepted returns from any buyers who were dissatisfied. So no ill will. But in my mind, the complaint is fair.
 

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