Hey we're all weird. I had a 200 chip case that I really liked and was trying to figure out how to build an 8 man tournament set that would fit in the case. It had nothing to do with saving cash and everything to do with being a case weirdo.
Controversial Chip & Poker Opinions (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter Rieguy
- Start date
I think this is where you tell them to stop being a chip nit.
MeridianFC
Flush
The logic:
Cash games - gives you the most bank. Allows for expansion of games spread
The ravages of time - hedge against loss and damage
The cruelty of time - hedge against being unable to get your exact set again (owners of BCC, CPC Roman Mold, etc. will feel this)
Expansion - even if planning for a one table world this can allow for occasional over subscription or future growth.
The unassailable logic
Moar chipes - is more better
Controversial opinion- spotted ceramic is best ceramic.
Why? Solid spot patterns on edges are the most legible way to distinguish denoms and allow stack counting. Representing these spots on the face makes it easy for players to remember what face goes with what edge.
The rings and spots don't need to be as thick as a compression clay ring. Even a thin ring will do the job.
I dunno... Seems wasteful to buy 200 chips when one can easily run a tournament with just a barrel:
------
Works for up to 10 players
Barrel of 100s
Starting stack 100
One rebuy per player
5 minute blinds:
100/100
100/200 capped
Tournament over in 2-7 minutes
Then you can get to cash...
studog
Pair
...how?
studog
Pair
I searched but did not read all 82 pages of thread. Here's a couple of mine:
If you play with any unbalanced ante, you accept that a shorter stack can knock out a bigger stack. It'll be rare, but it can happen.
If you play with any unbalanced ante, you accept that a shorter stack can knock out a bigger stack. It'll be rare, but it can happen.
studog
Pair
The TDA definition of "when does a hand start" is broken at best.
Both my regular groups have adopted a mechanical deterministic rule instead: The next hand starts when the betting action of the previous hand is concluded.
This avoids people posting into the pot, posting early, posting late and arguing about it, multi-way pots taking ages to resolve.
Both my regular groups have adopted a mechanical deterministic rule instead: The next hand starts when the betting action of the previous hand is concluded.
This avoids people posting into the pot, posting early, posting late and arguing about it, multi-way pots taking ages to resolve.
NotRealNameNoSir
4 of a Kind
So the previous hands showdown starts during the next hand? Before the pot is awarded? Thats kinda silly.
KarateMaster72
Flush
That escalated quickly
JustinInMN
4 of a Kind
Ante first is the rule with individual antes. That should carry over to consolidated ante games.
In consolidated ante games, the players avoided paying antes for the previous orbit and are just making up for all those hands when they pay a consolidated ante. (Though worth a mention someone always pays the "first" BBA by draw or by button position on the first level that has a BBA, so the statement is really only true after the initial payment of the BBA. But this is not much different than someone paying the BB as well.
With ante first being the known rule, players can adjust strategy to "make their stand" at UTG+1 instead of UTG to avoid the situation where they might only win their own ante back if they cannot afford any portion of the big blind. Which is the biggest complaint about the big-blind ante.
ArielVer18
Flush
Do you know where I can learn about the historic BBA debate since 2018? I remember it was controversial when it was first introduced, but TDA eventually felt ante-first made more sense and added it to their rules under recommended procedures. Then in 2022, it was removed. Pressure from WSOP who refused to change their BB-first rules?
In a BB-first room, if a player with less than two big blinds is able to benefit from a full ante in the pot when not in the BB, why is he able to post less than a full ante when he's in he big blind position?
Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
If the Big Blind is paid first, there is no (or less than a full) ante in the pot. So everybody suffers from the incomplete ante. WSOP TD Jack Effel preferred the BB being posted first, because he did not want a player to win a pot that left them with no profit. It's not a good reason, but that was his reason. When the BBA first came out, I was in Effel's camp. I wanted the short-stack to win something when they won the hand. In a standard ante game, a player going all-in with an ante would win 8-10x their wager, so why should it be different in a consolidated ante game?
I no longer feel the same way.
If you are hosting a consolidated ante game, it is imperative that the host makes the ante-first/Blind-first rule known. I will play either way, but ante first is the better way (unless you consider no antes at all, because that is the best way).
ArielVer18
Flush
I agree, between the two sides, ante first is better and more fair. You are already seeing players in the WSOP hanging on to dear life with about 5 BB because they know the BB first rule might save them in an emergency. I'm just curious what led to the TDA's decision to remove the "ante first" recommendation from the newest 2022 rules.
JustinInMN
4 of a Kind
In a home game I completely agree. I don't think the benefits of antes outweigh the learning curve. Though admittedly consolidated ante should be easier. People say "antes drive the action" but they aren't the only way. Starting stacks and structure speed also have influence on "the action."
If we are going to rehash the argument, I grossly prefer the button-ante. That would have made this issue completely clean. It also makes sense to assign the first table ante to the player that has the advantage of position. The person that draws the first BB takes two hits instead of one based on random chance.
The first of objection to the button ante is usually what if it's a dead button hand because of an elimination? To which I would reply, there is no table ante for that hand, blinds are posted as normal. That is a feature not a bug. The one objectionable thing about the dead button rule is that it's a significant advantage to whoever gets to act last on consecutive hands. Having less initial money in the pot on the second hand at least mitigates that advantage.
(That said I do not oppose the dead button rule in tournament play despite the issue above because the dead button rule fits the often forced moving of players in tournament play much better than the alternative forward moving button rule, which I think is just fine for cash games. There are many more potential messes using the forward moving button rule than the dead button rule due to moving of players.)
JustinInMN
4 of a Kind
To be honest, I was not even aware of this TDA change in 2022.
Poker Zombie
Royal Flush
I agree the Button ante is better if you are determined to use an ante. The only reason I don't use the button ante (in my 1-2 games a year that use antes) is because I never see it in casino play, and I want my players to be able to sit in a casino an be as familiar with the rules as realistically possible.
Nine_high
Two Pair
It seems to me that starting antes on a level that isn't L1 is the answer. It sort of allows for their de facto start time to be obscured, meaning when did the table start getting "free" antes? The last ten hands before they actually start?
I have never run an ante tournament so what do I know, but if I did, I'd lean towards ante first starting at L2 or later.
It's an interesting debate though with good points on both sides.
But using my favorite chip in an airtite IS a card capper. Isn't it? Not using a card capper is what's lame. If it's toys as card cappers that you don't like, then say that. Don't bunch chips and toys all together.
One time while I was shuffling for the next hand, I had someone sweep my cards into the muck before I realized my turn to bet had been skipped. Never again will I play without a card capper.
But ultimately, if you don't like using toys as cappers, then you don't have to use them. Stop telling other people they need to follow your rules, for no good reason.
Agreed!
Tina or Sunfly cards mold or diamond mold ceramics. Any ceramic that has debossed shapes and rings so that they emulate clay chips.
The simplest solution is to just consider a consolidated ante as payment in advance for the next orbit. Then these issues go away.
That's how I think of blinds. I'm paying bb+sb to get the rest of the orbit for free.
blueshells50
High Hand
Watching John hobby snap a China clay in half made me appreciate cheap sluggos
I can’t speak for @Jacks but my two cents would be that there’s a big difference between “telling other people they need to follow your rules” and telling people that it’s dumb to play with toys on a poker table.
It’s a controversial thread for a reason.
But in self dealt games I change my opinion being in favor of any card capper.
Last edited:
Yup. I recently wrote about the issues they cause in a player-dealt game:
It doesn't scale. Imagine nine players with button-like card cappers in addition to the actual button. It'd be chaos. Use a finger cage like a normal person.
Yea it’s not like we actually listen to each other, especially in this thread.
Signed, a guy who plays with toys.
Signed, a guy who plays with toys.
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solution. 80mm acrylic db
studog
Pair
The previous hand's showdown starts the next hand, correct. It's not silly. Works very well, and everyone I've introduced it to likes it better than the TDA rule.
So far. I'm sure there will be some naysayers.
NotRealNameNoSir
4 of a Kind
Alright maybe Im stuck on semantics, but hey, thats exactly what we're arguing, rules and their wording:
you said when betting action ends on the previous hand, then the next hand starts. So that means I call your all-in, all my chips go in a pot, and you're saying the next hand has started before we showdown and award a pot. Needs to be different terminology for that period.
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