Copag 1546 - Didn't even last 1 year, Recommendations? Kem? (3 Viewers)

[surfik]

Fair.
But as far as the bikes go, I’m talking about the green and burgundy backs that were very cheap several years back. No reason to doubt the poker and bridge versions had different stocks.

Well when Cartamundi bought almost everything that was for sale they started experimenting

I remember Prestige bought like over 10 yo. They started loosing ink faster than Copags...
On the other note I belive Cristallos much more durable than other lines of Copags, but not all like 4 pip jumbo indexes.

 

[Marc Hedrick]

KEMs are great, but if you have temperature / humidity issues they will warp. Also, don’t let the dealers hold the deck throughout the game. Keep them on the table as much as possible. A warm sweaty grip warps them too.

Not to get this thread even more off topic, but that should hardly be a requirement to keep cards in good shape. A dealer should always keep the deck in their hand, whenever possible.

 

[upNdown]

Not to get this thread even more off topic, but that should hardly be a requirement to keep cards in good shape. A dealer should always keep the deck in their hand, whenever possible.

Absolutely. Those I’m not sure if that’s a fair characterization of KEMS. They’ve had a warping (or bowing) problem for sure. And the theories on what causes it and/or how to remedy it are seeming endless. Admittedly many of those theories involve humidity. But as far as I know, there’s never been a consensus let alone proof.
And this is the first time I’ve read the “dealer grip” theory. Not that I don’t see the logic in it. But on the other hand, KEM might be the most popular brand used in casino poker rooms across the US, where dealers are certainly trained to keep that stub in their hand. So . . .

 

[CdnBeerLover]

I've seen speedcloth do that to Fournier and Bicycle (Fournier-made) on the face of the cards due to the repeated sliding during a deal, but I have not encountered wear on the backs like that. I haven't seen anything like that on the backs from any brand.

My recommendation at this point would be Fournier or Desjgn.

 

[davefr]

My first and only experience with Fournier turned out to be a game of 52 Card Pickup. Stiff and slippery is a bad combination IMHO. Maybe some break in and getting use to them would help but the Copags handled much better. I also don't think Fournier is immune from fading. (just not as bad as Copag).

I just ordered a set of Desjgn and will see how they perform. It seems like reviews are mostly favorable.

 

[surfik]

Absolutely. Those I’m not sure if that’s a fair characterization of KEMS. They’ve had a warping (or bowing) problem for sure. And the theories on what causes it and/or how to remedy it are seeming endless. Admittedly many of those theories involve humidity. But as far as I know, there’s never been a consensus let alone proof.
And this is the first time I’ve read the “dealer grip” theory. Not that I don’t see the logic in it. But on the other hand, KEM might be the most popular brand used in casino poker rooms across the US, where dealers are certainly trained to keep that stub in their hand. So . . .

Regarding Kem... Humidity is not an issue
High temperature and direct sunlight causes them to crack and become coarse

I do belive its question of quality control. According to "guy I know" who is real wizz and was actually working for KEM since USCC took over quality control is not so strick as before. On the other some reports on warping issues reffer to decks that are at least few years old, and not only use but also production date.
I used some Casino Circles decks for over 2 years of extensive use and they are still playable...

 

[JFG]

Here’s an excerpt from a retro KEMS ‘users guide’. Maybe mine warped because I have moist hands. However moisture does have an effect on warping. I live in a dry climate, so as long as I don’t constantly hold the cards, they don’t warp. Using two decks and placing the deck down between streets fixed my problem.

 

[Leonard]

IMO Plastic playing cards are a consumable item. They don't last forever. They don't last for months of heavy use. I would put the time at around 40 hours of use - 8-10 short games, 4-5 long games. You can stretch this but you will be playing with sticky, warped, creased, or faded cards.

Buy in quantity and discard when warped, cracked, overly faded, etc.

They typically will last 10-20 times as long as paper cards, but if you have ever used those in a game, you know that you will go through 2-3 setups per poker session. One of the bigger games in town insists on using paper bicycle playing cards and they buy them in bulk from Costco and replace the setups multiple times per game.

 

[upNdown]

IMO Plastic playing cards are a consumable item. They don't last forever. They don't last for months of heavy use. I would put the time at around 40 hours of use - 8-10 short games, 4-5 long games. You can stretch this but you will be playing with sticky, warped, creased, or faded cards.

Buy in quantity and discard when warped, cracked, overly faded, etc.

They typically will last 10-20 times as long as paper cards, but if you have ever used those in a game, you know that you will go through 2-3 setups per poker session. One of the bigger games in town insists on using paper bicycle playing cards and they buy them in bulk from Costco and replace the setups multiple times per game.

I have a hard time getting more than a session out of a single setup without some jerko putting a big dent in the back of one, or many.
If I ever find the perfect setup, I may just buy a shit-ton of them and simply replace the damaged cards as I go.

 

[Leonard]

I have a hard time getting more than a session out of a single setup without some jerko putting a big dent in the back of one, or many.
If I ever find the perfect setup, I may just buy a shit-ton of them and simply replace the damaged cards as I go.

This is what casinos do. Most of them can’t design chips worth a damn, but I think they know how to run a card room.

 

[ktran]

Group buy some Angel cards.

 

[Machine]

Group buy some Angel cards.

Yeah lets do that, where do I send my money?

 

[Defarse]

Modiano Club for good, solid cards. KEM Arrows if you want better.

 

[Machine]

Modiano left the community holding the bag on a subpar product.

I’d rather play with paper.

 

[surfik]

Modiano left the community holding the bag on a subpar product.

I’d rather play with paper.

356 decks of Bicycle will do the trick

 

[BGinGA]

Modiano left the community holding the bag on a subpar product.

I’d rather play with paper.

I may even have "Fuck Modiano" engraved on my gravestone.

 

[Machine]

356 decks of Bicycle will do the trick

I want to try your poker Trefl?

 

[JMC9389]

Group buy some Angel cards.

@Geremie

 

[surfik]

I want to try your poker Trefl?

You do?

 

[Old State]

Kems are the best feeling cards hands down. Most casinos use them. They may warp if you leave them out. I store them upside down with a dealer button in them and a cut card.

The best bang for the buck card is the Cartamundi CCPs you can find on Amazon for $10-12. Copags will fade or bleed with moderate to high usage

The classiest cards made are Desjgn

 

[DMack]

Kems are the best feeling cards hands down. Most casinos use them. They may warp if you leave them out. I store them upside down with a dealer button in them and a cut card.

The best bang for the buck card is the Cartamundi CCPs you can find on Amazon for $10-12. Copags will fade or bleed with moderate to high usage

The classiest cards made are Desjgn

I agree with nearly every bit of this. I think I actually learned the button trick from you, and it has worked with all my decks. There’s just something about the feel of KEMs, and they are just truly classic to me.

I am more of a card snob than a chip snob, and Copags just exude cheap to me. They are horrendous in about every aspect.

 

[Old State]

I agree with nearly every bit of this. I think I actually learned the button trick from you, and it has worked with all my decks. There’s just something about the feel of KEMs, and they are just truly classic to me.

I am more of a card snob than a chip snob, and Copags just exude cheap to me. They are horrendous in about every aspect.

Most PVC cards feel cheap…especially next to Kems

 

[davefr]

Thanks again for all the suggestions. I ordered 2 sets of 2011/2012 WSOP cards from eBay (great deal!!). I also ordered a Desjgn set from eBay. I love the 2011 KEMs. They seem like the perfect cards for handling. Is the warpage really that bad? I don't really care for the 2012 Fournier cards. They are too stiff and slick but maybe they take more getting use to. The Desjgn cards handle almost like KEM. Are they as close as you can get to KEM handling without warpage issues? What other cards are KEM like? I'll save my faded Copags for now. Copag customer service was excellent in agreeing to replace them but why bother if replacements do the same thing. I first noticed the fading early on and it just got worse. IMHO it takes away from the pleasure of the game looking at ugly faded cards.

 

[surfik]

Thanks again for all the suggestions. I ordered 2 sets of 2011/2012 WSOP cards from eBay (great deal!!). I also ordered a Desjgn set from eBay. I love the 2011 KEMs. They seem like the perfect cards for handling. Is the warpage really that bad? I don't really care for the 2012 Fournier cards. They are too stiff and slick but maybe they take more getting use to. The Desjgn cards handle almost like KEM. Are they as close as you can get to KEM handling without warpage issues? What other cards are KEM like? I'll save my faded Copags for now. Copag customer service was excellent in agreeing to replace them but why bother if replacements do the same thing. I first noticed the fading early on and it just got worse. IMHO it takes away from the pleasure of the game looking at ugly faded cards.

View attachment 1045960

Get DalNegro from Spinetti's.... You will like them, great value per dollar spent. And they sell KEMs Casino Circle, wonderful cards

 

[JFG]

My KEMS are my favorite. They are truly unique, with almost a leathery feel to them.

 

[davefr]

We've put quite a few hours on these cards since my original post and here's my $.02 worth.
#1 KEM's: These have a velvety feel and do everything well. They seem like a super refined product. We bought the WSOP 2011 set from eBay which is a great deal. We haven't seen any warpage yet. However assuming about $40+/set retail that's an uncompetitive price.
#2 Desjgn: IMHO these are very close to KEMs but at a kindler gentler price. We really like them.
#3 Angel: Like Desjgn, they are very close to KEM. Hard to find.
#4 Fournier: (ie WSOP 2012) I hated them at first because they're stiff and slippery. Either I'm getting use
to them or they are breaking in. Now I'm kind of liking the nice crisp shuffle vs. the softer KEM like shuffle. Fournier almost feel like a new set of paper cards and KEM feel like a well broken in set of paper cards.
#5 Copag: Bad fading. Not even going to bother getting free replacements. Off my list.

Is there a card that's kind of on the stiffer side like Fournier but not so darn slippery? If so I'd like to try them.

 

[Defarse]

However assuming about $40+/set retail that's an uncompetitive price.

$27.75 and free shipping

 

[davefr]

$27.75 and free shipping

Where? I see close to $40 shipped at Amazon and Kem.com. There are reports that some Amazon Kems are counterfeit. The only Kems I've seen in the $20's shipped are the WSOP 2011 eBay cards.

 

[JFG]

We've put quite a few hours on these cards since my original post and here's my $.02 worth.
#1 KEM's: These have a velvety feel and do everything well. They seem like a super refined product. We bought the WSOP 2011 set from eBay which is a great deal. We haven't seen any warpage yet. However assuming about $40+/set retail that's an uncompetitive price.
#2 Desjgn: IMHO these are very close to KEMs but at a kindler gentler price. We really like them.
#3 Angel: Like Desjgn, they are very close to KEM. Hard to find.
#4 Fournier: (ie WSOP 2012) I hated them at first because they're stiff and slippery. Either I'm getting use
to them or they are breaking in. Now I'm kind of liking the nice crisp shuffle vs. the softer KEM like shuffle. Fournier almost feel like a new set of paper cards and KEM feel like a well broken in set of paper cards.
#5 Copag: Bad fading. Not even going to bother getting free replacements. Off my list.

Is there a card that's kind of on the stiffer side like Fournier but not so darn slippery? If so I'd like to try them.

Get the free Copag and sell them to me lol

 

[surfik]

Where? I see close to $40 shipped at Amazon and Kem.com. There are reports that some Amazon Kems are counterfeit. The only Kems I've seen in the $20's shipped are the WSOP 2011 eBay cards.

www.kem.com