COVID-19 (Corona virous) and your home game? (4 Viewers)

[TheDuke]

So I don't understand the half measures some folks have posted. Not everyone is wearing a mask, no masks but hand sanitizer, etc.

What's the point?

The appearance of having measures in place? Reminds me of that scene in Fight Club on the plane. Emergency exit procedures at 30,000 feet.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Is 2/17 (about 12%) a low rate?

When you put it like that, no.

Amongst the players that wear masks, the infection rate has been zero. The 3 that do not wear masks have a 67% infection rate. The county where we are centered around has a 17% infection rate.

So I don't understand the half measures some folks have posted. Not everyone is wearing a mask, no masks but hand sanitizer, etc.

What's the point?

The appearance of having measures in place? Reminds me of that scene in Fight Club on the plane. Emergency exit procedures at 30,000 feet.

We also have hand sanitizer available at the table, have extended breaks to encourage longer hand washing, play shorthanded tables, and have barred "grab by the handful" snacks. But people be people, and I'm nobody's mother.

I'd rather have all 6 players on the ice defending, but during penalty plays you may only have 4. It's still better than zero. Anyone that only wears a mask (and uses no other precautions) is playing shorthanded defence, but is still playing D.

 

[Poker Zombie]

A 12% infection rate is low? I know you said that they didn't catch it at your game, but that would make me worried!

Oddly enough, both players missed a week (our games have been every 3 weeks, so you could say they missed 3 weeks). When we sent out invites both said they couldn't make the next game because they tested positive. Thus, it was unlikely they got it at the game, because they were 6 weeks removed.

No reason to worry.

 

[Himewad]

So I don't understand the half measures some folks have posted. Not everyone is wearing a mask, no masks but hand sanitizer, etc.

What's the point?

The appearance of having measures in place? Reminds me of that scene in Fight Club on the plane. Emergency exit procedures at 30,000 feet.

There didn't appear to be many masks at MinneMania, either. I think most people are ready for life to resume as normal and stop being afraid when the survival rate for healthy human beings is close to 100%.

 

[TheDuke]

When you put it like that, no.

Amongst the players that wear masks, the infection rate has been zero. The 3 that do not wear masks have a 67% infection rate. The county where we are centered around has a 17% infection rate.


We also have hand sanitizer available at the table, have extended breaks to encourage longer hand washing, play shorthanded tables, and have barred "grab by the handful" snacks. But people be people, and I'm nobody's mother.

I'd rather have all 6 players on the ice defending, but during penalty plays you may only have 4. It's still better than zero. Anyone that only wears a mask (and uses no other precautions) is playing shorthanded defence, but is still playing D.

Ha - love a good hockey analogy.

Here's my point of view of only a handful of folks in an enclosed space wearing a mask or the no masks and only hand sanitizer situations.

So to continue the use of hockey analogies, only a few people wearing masks is like the team that is shorthanded and trying to kill off a penalty and one of their defenders is playing without his stick. He's almost useless defending. The longer the play ensues in the defenders zone, the likelier that the power play will score.

The situation of no masks and just hand sanitizer is like both teams get on the ice without helmets. There's a chance they could play multiple games without anyone getting a head injury, but on a long enough timeline someone will eventually get hurt and that injury could have been prevented if they just wore their helmet.

 

[Poker Zombie]

I can confirm that Mrs Zombie and I were the only 2 to wear masks throughout Minnemania. Hand sanitizer was available, and the house was spacious enough that when just hanging out talking, you could remove your mask but maintain adequate distancing. In fact, social distancing has become "automatic", where people just naturally spaced themselves out.

At least one person got tested following, and came up negative.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Ha - love a good hockey analogy.

Here's my point of view of only a handful of folks in an enclosed space wearing a mask or the no masks and only hand sanitizer situations.

So to continue the use of hockey analogies, only a few people wearing masks is like the team that is shorthanded and trying to kill off a penalty and one of their defenders is playing without his stick. He's almost useless defending. The longer the play ensues in the defenders zone, the likelier that the power play will score.

The situation of no masks and just hand sanitizer is like both teams get on the ice without helmets. There's a chance they could play multiple games without anyone getting a head injury, but on a long enough timeline someone will eventually get hurt and that injury could have been prevented if they just wore their helmet.

I grew up pre-helmet. I'd like to say there is no way I would play without one today, but I have. (it was a friendly game).

I get it though, just be safe. A little safe is better than completely unsafe, but some people act as if there's no problem at all.

 

[Jake14mw]

Oddly enough, both players missed a week (our games have been every 3 weeks, so you could say they missed 3 weeks). When we sent out invites both said they couldn't make the next game because they tested positive. Thus, it was unlikely they got it at the game, because they were 6 weeks removed.

No reason to worry.

So, what you're saying is, you got lucky with your timing. The two people who contracted it, happened to contract it early enough where they got tested before your game. If your game happened to be scheduled earlier, before they got tested, those two people might have attended and infected others at your game. That was why I was saying that would worry me, that's all.

 

[Chawks45]

I did two games over the past two months, but recently decided to hit the pause button. Was looking forward to the next upcoming game, too, because fellow local PCFer @Chester Copperpot was coming over to splash some pots. He and the group understood my decision and nobody tried to talk me out of it, so all good.

That said, I tried to make my game as safe and comfortable as possible under the circumstances. Late August/early September was the first time I had a game since early March. Everyone wore masks and I even ordered face shields from Amazon for folks to wear if they wanted an extra layer of protection. I bought 10-15 hand towels and passed them out before the game, then removed the community towels in the bathrooms. Hand sanitizers everywhere and folks were required to use it before sitting down. If they got up from the table to use the bathroom, grab a drink from the fridge, use the phone, etc., hand sanitizer was mandatory before they returned to play.

I used one of my ceramic chip sets for play because I wasn't too worried about spraying the chips with Lysol, which was done at the lunch break and every two hours after. Also used/rotated cheap plastic-coated cards, which were tossed in the trash at the lunch break and every two hours after, instead of my good plastic cards. The rail was was also cleaned with Lysol wipes and all chairs sprayed during the breaks. I was a stickler for sanitizing everything and the group, especially a lot of their spouses based on feedback, appreciated it.

Don't know when I'll do another game again, especially with the weather turning, but it was good to see everyone after the long break.

 

[Tarheel4Life]

There didn't appear to be many masks at MinneMania, either. I think most people are ready for life to resume as normal and stop being afraid when the survival rate for healthy human beings is close to 100%.

Right because poker players are generally the fittest and healthiest among us.

 

[Chester Copperpot]

I think it was the right call, and I get to tell my wife I’m gonna skip it without telling her it was postponed ... gotta try to build up some goodwill!

But definitely looking forward to getting around a table and donating some cash to a new group of poker players!

 

[Himewad]

Right because poker players are generally the fittest and healthiest among us.

There is a difference between "healthy" and "fit". If you are healthy, the survival rate is almost 100%. If you have underlying conditions, you shouldn't play. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Taghkanic]

Re: Hand sanitizer:

While that is probably still a wise precaution, from what I’ve read it seems like airborne transmission is increasingly viewed as a primary means of transmission. Specifically, spending time in the same room with an infected person for 15+ minutes. In other words... a long poker game is exactly the type of setting to avoid.

Obviously, droplet transmission is still a concern (a contagious person sneezes on the chips, you touch them, and then you pick your nose... OK gross, sorry).

But if I were to resume hosting, I would be focused as much or *more* on masks as on sanitizer.

It does not strike me as safe to rely exclusively on sanitizer and not require masks.

Taking temps at the door seems like a decent idea. Quizzing people about how they are feeling and about any recent contacts with infected people seems less likely to help. If someone is feeling poorly, or has had such contacts, and they still show up at your door knowing they are a potential risk, how likely is it that they are going to answer honestly?

Either way, even if a host trusts all regs completely, there simply is no way for any of us to be sure that people we are in contact with are truly being as careful as we’d like, 100% of the time. One weak link in the chain is all it takes.

The virus is at a low in my county right now — something like 15 known active cases in a population of 60,000. Neighoring counties are seeing new spikes. And with schools back open and people seeming to be getting a lot less careful lately, I don’t expect to host again until next Spring at the earliest, unless a cure or vaccine are found sooner than that.

 

[Taghkanic]

P.S. re: timing: One of the problems that has emerged (see: the NFL, White House, etc.) is that one can become contagious before symptoms emerge. So one has to be doubly lucky as far as timing, if a player gets sick but does not know it before cards are in the air...

Lastly, re: survival rates: There are tons of reports out there from credible sources of “healthy” people surviving COVID, but having longer-term issues, or even permanent damage to their lungs, heart, and other major organs. I’d like to not just survive, but avoid infection entirely.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Lastly, re: survival rates: There are tons of reports out there from credible sources of “healthy” people surviving COVID, but having longer-term issues, or even permanent damage to their lungs, heart, and other major organs. I’d like to not just survive, but avoid infection entirely.

^ This, 100%

People get caught up on "survival", like that's the only thing that matters. Sickness is something I like to avoid. Flu, Common Cold, Herpes, whatever, I dont want it. I don't care if COVID and Herpes have the same "survival" rate, don't do something that will get me sick. COVID survival, like Herpes, can have lifelong repercussions, EVEN FOR HEALTHY PEOPLE.

Don't hold up "low" death rates like it's offering you protection.

 

[legonick]

So I don't understand the half measures some folks have posted. Not everyone is wearing a mask, no masks but hand sanitizer, etc.

What's the point?

The appearance of having measures in place? Reminds me of that scene in Fight Club on the plane. Emergency exit procedures at 30,000 feet.

My 2 cents on this...and this is in my bubble world because I haven't hosted a game for a while now due to other factors...but when I do....

So I live in a very low rate area. Currently 654 cases per 100K people, one of the lowest in the country.

My plan is to request that people who have known interactions with COVID-19 infected people or COVID-19 symptoms skip the game. It is a trustworthy group. There will also be a temperature scan to get in, but that's mostly for show. People are welcome to come wearing masks or not, and they can skip the game if the situation feels too risky. I know the symptom stuff is not 100%, but because of the rate of infection in this area and the fact that most of the guys invited are WFH or out of work right now, and our Governor lifted the "ban" on >= 10 person gathers, I think this is low risk. I'm shooting for a 10 person game.

If I was in a high-risk area of the country, I would likely feel the need to keep the game on hold. And who knows...maybe 8/10 people will not attend and I'll have to cancel anyways.

Thoughts? Is this too risky?

 

[Sambukan]

My 2 cents on this...and this is in my bubble world because I haven't hosted a game for a while now due to other factors...but when I do....

So I live in a very low rate area. Currently 654 cases per 100K people, one of the lowest in the country.

My plan is to request that people who have known interactions with COVID-19 infected people or COVID-19 symptoms skip the game. It is a trustworthy group. There will also be a temperature scan to get in, but that's mostly for show. People are welcome to come wearing masks or not, and they can skip the game if the situation feels too risky. I know the symptom stuff is not 100%, but because of the rate of infection in this area and the fact that most of the guys invited are WFH or out of work right now, and our Governor lifted the "ban" on >= 10 person gathers, I think this is low risk. I'm shooting for a 10 person game.

If I was in a high-risk area of the country, I would likely feel the need to keep the game on hold. And who knows...maybe 8/10 people will not attend and I'll have to cancel anyways.

Thoughts? Is this too risky?

654 cases per 100k is a low rate area? Wow, what differences there are in definition of risk areas and low rate areas. Here a risk area/country is with 60+ cases per 100k and if you have been to any country with more than 60cases over a couple days, you need to quarantine for 10days.

 

[Coyote]

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1110187/coronavirus-incidence-europe-by-country/

and in the US, per state
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109004/coronavirus-covid19-cases-rate-us-americans-by-state/

 

[Taghkanic]

Why not require masks?

 

[Sambukan]

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1110187/coronavirus-incidence-europe-by-country/

Yeah but thats total amount per 100k. Doesnt say that much imo

 

[Coyote]

Yeah but thats total amount per 100k. Doesnt say that much imo

Weren't we talking about total amount of cases per 100K of population?
Switzerland has 687per, so it would be rather absurd to quarantine anybody who has been in a country with less than that.

 

[Sambukan]

Weren't we talking about total amount of cases per 100K of population?
Switzerland has 687per, so it would be rather absurd to quarantine anybody who has been in a country with less than that.

Total amount of cases is pretty irrelevant imo. Its about infection risk, need too lok at infections/active cases over last 10days. Doesnt make sense to take the cases from february into consideration

 

[Coyote]

Total amount of cases is pretty irrelevant imo. Its about infection risk, need too lok at infections/active cases over last 10days. Doesnt make sense to take the cases from february into consideration

You and @legonick used it as a criterion.

 

[Sambukan]

You and @legonick used it as a criterion.

I assumed we were talking about cases from the last ten day or two weeks

 

[Poker Zombie]

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1110187/coronavirus-incidence-europe-by-country/

and in the US, per state
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109004/coronavirus-covid19-cases-rate-us-americans-by-state/

Sadly, that right there shows the differences between the two political parties in our country. Since the current president opposes wearing masks, his supporters feel the need to not wear them either. The result: high infection rates in "red" states, and lower infection rates in "blue" states.

 

[legonick]

I assumed we were talking about cases from the last ten day or two weeks

Total data failing on my part. That number was "cases per 100K total".

The numbers today are 661 cases per 100K total. 436 cases in the last 7 days. 8970 cases total. That first number, as you mentioned, is less useful than the second number.

NH is 9th from the bottom of all US states and territories in the last 7 days.

This is source of the data: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_casesinlast7days

NH is the 3rd lowest state in "cases per 100K total" currently:

New Hampshire	661
Maine	426
Vermont	295
American Samoa	0
Federated States of Micronesia	0
Northern Mariana Islands	0
Palau	0
Republic of Marshall Islands	0

So yes, low risk at least compared to the rest of the US in general.

 

[Mojo1312]

The host of the weekly $50 tournament that I play in gave an inspirational speech during the early stages of the pandemic on the importance of social ties in maintaining mental health. He wanted us to know that the weekly home game (founded in 2004) would continue on through the pandemic.

I was a believer. Then the first case of Covid appeared in Maine. Abruptly, the game was cancelled. I communicated to the host that I felt he was making a mistake by reversing course. We had just built the game back up to 14/15 players a week after letting a junkie and her alcoholic boyfriend overstay their welcome. We had to keep the momentum going I argued... to no avail.

When he finally began hosting again after a couple of months had gone by, we had trouble filling seven or eight seats. We have since lost a few more of our core players and are now down to four or five. It has been this way for weeks. I made the decision last week to drop out for the remainder of the month. Maybe cold weather will bring a few players out I surmised, then again, maybe not.

One thing that I do know, playing in a four or five handed tournament with the house taking $50 is not worth the drive and time. If there is no improvement in attendance come November, I will be gone for good.

 

[Jake14mw]

Why does the house take $50?

 

[legonick]

The host of the weekly $50 tournament that I play in gave an inspirational speech during the early stages of the pandemic on the importance of social ties in maintaining mental health. He wanted us to know that the weekly home game (founded in 2004) would continue on through the pandemic.

I was a believer. Then the first case of Covid appeared in Maine. Abruptly, the game was cancelled. I communicated to the host that I felt he was making a mistake by reversing course. We had just built the game back up to 14/15 players a week after letting a junkie and her alcoholic boyfriend overstay their welcome. We had to keep the momentum going I argued... to no avail.

When he finally began hosting again after a couple of months had gone by, we had trouble filling seven or eight seats. We have since lost a few more of our core players and are now down to four or five. It has been this way for weeks. I made the decision last week to drop out for the remainder of the month. Maybe cold weather will bring a few players out I surmised, then again, maybe not.

One thing that I do know, playing in a four or five handed tournament with the house taking $50 is not worth the drive and time. If there is no improvement in attendance come November, I will be gone for good.

I think there is a fine line between too much poker and not enough for us non-professional degens. Once a week would be hard to justify to my wife. Once a month, no problemo. Once a month, it’s fresh, it’s exiting, people look forward to it. This may have been a case of “too much of a good thing”.

 

[Tarheel4Life]

Just start a pokermavens server and play online.