I too brag about my winnings and seldom discus my losses. Truth be told the losses far exceed the winnings. But please don't tell my wife that.
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Explain the Wynn Chip Hype to Me Like I'm a 4 Year Old (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter justsomedude
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I too brag about my winnings and seldom discus my losses. Truth be told the losses far exceed the winnings. But please don't tell my wife that.
I don't know anyone on this forum personally, including @RainmanTrail. I have had quite a few transactions here in my short few months, and they have all gone extremely well, so I commend this community for its honesty and efficiency. I can understand some members have 'fans' and 'friends'. As an observer, although much of what he has done is within the rules and he hasn't broken any laws by being an aggressive marketeer, as @superchromix said, there are some lines of conduct that many would agree have been crossed, especially when you consider the 'understanding' and 'etiquette' the more established and senior members of this forum have been operating under.
superchromix
Full House
I fully agree. I was simply thinking about what differentiates PCF from e.g. stock market, or eBay. It's the PCF guidelines and the understanding that exists between PCF members.
I'm not suggesting anything drastic. Just saying, when it comes down to it PCF is a group of chippers with some common understandings when it comes to trading. Membership in that group should not be taken for granted.
bergs
Royal Flush
Interesting that you shill for him. In looking at your historical threads quickly, it became obvious that you also have done a tremendous amount of purchasing chips from The Chip Room and other sales and then turned around and sold them back to the community. Here's an idea - don't buy chips from these vendors that help our community just to sell them. Let the people buy them directly that wanted them in the first place - at a lower cost.
I've always been adamant about this, both here and at Chiptalk - the people that look to profit off the community here are leeches. Caveat emptor.
I'm not sure how much money I lost when I decided that the horseshoe chips were not as cool as I initially thought. I'm not sure I want to know. Go back to Chiptalk where you belong.
12thMan
Full House
There is absolutely no reason to wish such a thing on anybody no matter how much of an enemy they may be.
;
just a joke to lighten the mood
gopherblue
Straight Flush
I call BS on the first part of your statement. As to the last sentence: You are so far and away out of your league via-a-vis @bergs, I'd recommend tucking your shilling tail between your legs and GTFO.
RainmanTrail
Straight Flush
You can make whatever claims you want about my buying and selling practices, but it doesn't make them true. I don't flip chips from member-to-member sales. Feel free to go through all of my past chip sales and find me even one sale where I bought chips from another member and resold them for a profit (sorry, but vendors like The Chip Room and NobleCountyDanny who's businesses are to buy out closed casinos and flip them to us as a profit don't count). There are COUNTLESS sales of mine where I could have easily resold chips for a profit but I resold them either for what I paid or at a loss to pay-it-forward.
The only chips I've sold in the classifieds for a profit were either from vendors or public sites like eBay, offerup or letgo (all of which are 100% fair game). And even those I didn't actually profit from. I just got more chips out of them. The chips I sold from the Horseshoe sale offset the cost of my Horseshoe snapper set. The chips I sold from the Wynn set offset the cost of my Wynn keeper set. The chips I bought from public markets offset the cost of the Winners Club chips. And any "profits" I've made just went straight to CPC customs.
If profiting off of Chip Room sales makes someone a vendor, we'd sure have a whole lot of "vendors" around here - including almost everyone who's screen names have a different font color than the rest of us.
You guys act like I'm some vulture who buys chips from members in the classifieds for $1 only to resell them a week later for $1.60 to the same community. Something I've never done, and never will do. The funny thing is, this exact thing happens all the time, yet only certain people get shit on for it. Meanwhile, I'm getting shit on for it and I don't even do it!
The overwhelming majority of the chips I've sold here are at cost or for a loss. All said and done, I've spent over $60k on chips this past year since joining PCF trying to acquire keeper sets that I like. I buy more than I need in order to get optimal breakdowns, then I sell off the extras. I'm picky as hell, and if I buy chips that I don't LOVE, they're going right back up for sale. I'll never understand why others don't do the same. It allows me to keep trying out new chips until I find those sets that make it into my vault of keepers.
RainmanTrail
Straight Flush
I'm pretty sure he bought most of his Horseshoes from the secondary market.
12thMan
Full House
So this is the crux to me and illustrates a problem with how it is applied on PCF and many other forums throughout the history of man kind: that kind of thing
works great until it doesn't, then it gets to be a real big fucking mess. To some, "understanding" and "etiquette" work great because they aren't on the wrong side of a popularity circle, to others though it's exclusionary and closed off feeling.
I'm all for community, I practice it in my online life and in my day to day life as best I can (I try my hardest to not be a hypocrite) and am in favor of it here and will always do my best to pay it forward to the people I respect (99% of members), but what I am against is the teams that always form and the politics that come into play with these kinds of things. Get off on the wrong foot here or ruffle some feathers of the wrong people (which Travis did) and see if the feeling you get would be comparable to community or a lynch mob.
I don't have much of an opinion on the topic at hand because I've seen this exact situation play out with almost the same exact same supporting cast on many message boards from my past. From an FMX board in the late 90's to a snowboarding site to firearms to car sites to quadcopter sites to watch sites and on and on: this is just the way the world works and it isn't going to stop here.
What I do have a strong opinion about is the "community" term that is thrown about so freely yet not applied evenly, and to that I say fuck that shit. I have a big problem with the occasional posting styles of a few members and the way they treat others, and while I don't think I have ever reported a post or a member in my online life (I'm not a call the cops person) I can have my opinions on what I think is the right way to talk to people you can't look in the eye. To that I found out a little while ago that the reason I wasn't getting an answer on a for sale thread and the reason I missed out on something else was because of posts I made during the political threads (you know, back when as adults we could discuss politics before a few morons got that zapped) and the fact that I was Team Rainman. lol Mind you the posts in the political thread weren't about who I was voting for and "Team Rainman" (whatever that means) didn't come about because I was making deals with him and defending him all over the board...No, it was because I disagreed with the way certain members of this "community" were treating other members and the fact I was friendly with Rainman because I knew him from my past almost 20 years ago when we were both in highschool/college. Because I worked at a Dominos (fuck yeah) with someone when I was 16 and the fact I had the audacity to not be friendly with some people I think are sometimes trolls I have got the shit end of community from some people that don't know me and didn't have the balls to tell me why they think I'm an asshole. Cool, huh?
I don't say that to bitch about it, it's real life and I'm fine with it now that I know. If the guy that was the best man in my wedding was having a superbowl party or was going to get rid of something I wanted I wouldn't think it would be weird that I'd get an invite to his house for the party before a stranger or that he would sell me something to me before he listed it on craigslist; it would actually be common sense to me that's the way it worked. I bring it up just to drive home the point that if you are going to have a community it needs to be applied fairly, if not you need to be real about what it means. Just one example that should be obvious to everybody: if people want to say things like Travis should be a site vendor that's fine, but please be ready to get specific with what makes a person a site vendor because Travis is not the only person on this forum who buys chips low and sells high either sporadically or routinely. Yeah, I get it, there are different levels (and I don't think there is anything wrong with anybody doing that either way high or low, I just appreciate the lower prices some offer
), but it's on you to put a hard line where those differences are because if you don't it will be decided by that whole popularity/politics thing which is bullshit and the opposite of community, whether it's happening to Rainman or anybody else.That's a fact. But trying to explain that to some members is like trying to explain to a Liberal that Hillary lost fair and square.
gopherblue
Straight Flush
Ignoring the laughable fact that you've now insulted pretty much the entire (and sizable) core of PCF, I do note you left off Number 3: PCF would be a barren wasteland, with only the sound of crickets.
RainmanTrail
Straight Flush
I find it hilarious that people see me as a marketing guy that is in any way responsible for market prices. The truth is that there are more and more new chippers coming into the hobby every day with new money. Yet there are almost zero high quality new sets coming in. The Horseshoe sale was the closest thing we got, and the even those were mostly heavily used RHC chips. Sure, we got the secondaries, but those were limited and still on RHC.
The fact of the matter is that true quality sets are quickly becoming a thing of the past and current market prices reflect that. They are extremely difficult to acquire; even with money. Want to build a minty TRK set? Good luck! You used to be able to call up Spinettis and actually buy brand new Mapes and Nevada Lodge chips, but people often didn't because they hated the idea of dropping $300 per rack on a set of chips! HA! Can you imagine grabbing them for that now? Hell, even the Money Trees are all sold out now, and fetch more than Mapes used to. Want to build a nice THC set? Better grab your wallet, and be prepared to get outbid, if you can even find them.
I'm not trying to be an ass hat here, but a lot of you old school chippers sit around here all day shaking your fists at us younger generation chippers because you think we're ruining your hobby with our prices (among other things). But as long as new money is pouring in and new quality sets are not, prices will continue to rise. A classic example is the most recent PCA auction that Heavyball bought. He was another new chipper at the time, looking for quality chips. It's not like he can just PM Labmonkey and say, "hey bud, I'd like to purchase your Overlands and your Lakeshore Inn chips please. How much will that be?" and work out a deal for a nice set (not that he'd even respond). So what else is he to do? He can either buy some shitty chips, or he can fork out the dough for some nice ones. He crushed all other bidders, myself included, once again raising the bar in what people are willing to pay for quality chips.
Instead of getting mad about it every time this happened, and every time I missed out on chips I wanted, I took note and built a database of past chip sales and developed a pricing model that does a pretty damn good job of predicting future market prices for chips. I spent a lot of time on this project, and when I offered it to the community (free of charge mind you), I got absolutely shit on, in a big way too (and apparently bergs still won't let it die!). Name calling from every direction and bullying to the nth degree. It was actually quite hilarious from my viewpoint. Needless to say, I decided to keep it for myself. So excuse me if you see me walking around with my middle fingers in the air from time to time while I leverage the work I've put in to acquire some nice sets.
The fact of the matter is that true quality sets are quickly becoming a thing of the past and current market prices reflect that. They are extremely difficult to acquire; even with money. Want to build a minty TRK set? Good luck! You used to be able to call up Spinettis and actually buy brand new Mapes and Nevada Lodge chips, but people often didn't because they hated the idea of dropping $300 per rack on a set of chips! HA! Can you imagine grabbing them for that now? Hell, even the Money Trees are all sold out now, and fetch more than Mapes used to. Want to build a nice THC set? Better grab your wallet, and be prepared to get outbid, if you can even find them.
I'm not trying to be an ass hat here, but a lot of you old school chippers sit around here all day shaking your fists at us younger generation chippers because you think we're ruining your hobby with our prices (among other things). But as long as new money is pouring in and new quality sets are not, prices will continue to rise. A classic example is the most recent PCA auction that Heavyball bought. He was another new chipper at the time, looking for quality chips. It's not like he can just PM Labmonkey and say, "hey bud, I'd like to purchase your Overlands and your Lakeshore Inn chips please. How much will that be?" and work out a deal for a nice set (not that he'd even respond). So what else is he to do? He can either buy some shitty chips, or he can fork out the dough for some nice ones. He crushed all other bidders, myself included, once again raising the bar in what people are willing to pay for quality chips.
Instead of getting mad about it every time this happened, and every time I missed out on chips I wanted, I took note and built a database of past chip sales and developed a pricing model that does a pretty damn good job of predicting future market prices for chips. I spent a lot of time on this project, and when I offered it to the community (free of charge mind you), I got absolutely shit on, in a big way too (and apparently bergs still won't let it die!). Name calling from every direction and bullying to the nth degree. It was actually quite hilarious from my viewpoint. Needless to say, I decided to keep it for myself. So excuse me if you see me walking around with my middle fingers in the air from time to time while I leverage the work I've put in to acquire some nice sets.
Opinions on flipping aside, this is as intellectually dishonest an argument as I've ever heard.
RainmanTrail
Straight Flush
Sure, I "profited" in the sense that I got free chips out of it, if that's what you mean. I'm not trying to hide that though. My point is just that I'm here for the chips. Not the money. Which should be pretty obvious considering all the chips I've bought from CPC - chips which can't be flipped for a profit.
gopherblue
Straight Flush
Was just about to post the very same thought.
Also an intellectually dishonest argument--you received money in each case: some of which totally offset the cost of the chips you kept (which are an asset with a value but a cost basis of zero--thus a windfall to you) and some of which you chose to spend on CPC chips (as if that mitigates the point!)...which you also essentially now own as an asset with a cost basis of zero.
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Believe me, i've been on that side of it too, and very recently had to stop helping in a GB due to bullying tactics. I perfectly understand the lynch-mob mentality, and as was suggested to me by a very wise and intelligent member of this community, the best course of action is to let it go as opposed to keep defending, keep arguing, and keep making it worse. @RainmanTrail seems not to have received the same wise words of wisdom.
Most people are here for the chips. Which only makes it that much more obvious that it's inarguably, absurdly dishonest to say that selling chips for a monetary profit is not a profit because you're buying more chips with the money you've made.
RainmanTrail
Straight Flush
When I bought my Wynn set, I had to pay almost $8k for it. It came out to $4.35 per chip, and a lot of people shit on me for paying those prices. It was a huge gamble on my part because I only needed about half of them, and would have to try to find buyers for the rest. They said I was foolish and that I overpaid. That they weren't even Paulsons, that they weren't even from a real casino... Blah blah blah. I even remember people arguing with me until they were blue in the face when I said "call them whatever you want, but I guarantee that the Wynn wrote off the cost of these chips on their tax return". Meanwhile, no one else seemed to notice that before I even bought these, HQ had already auctioned off a set that went for $6 per chip, and that two 5k singles had recently sold on eBay for more than $100 each. Yet here I was, getting shit on left and right. So again, excuse me while I walk around with both of my middle fingers in the air at those of you who've been shitting on me since day one.
RainmanTrail
Straight Flush
Fair enough. I'll accept that correction.
Yes, and I'm here for Rainman's chips so please cut him some slack. I've said it once and I'll say it again...Only a fool would sell his/her chips for less than fair market value.
And I'm here for their chips too! Well, not all of their chips just the good ones.
RainmanTrail
Straight Flush
I've definitely received these words of wisdom many times. Several chippers that I'm on good terms with remind me every week. I'm just not one to give into bullying though. Never have been. If someone wants to shit on me, I'm going to shit right back. And on a site with this many assholes, you can imagine there's a whole lot of shitting that goes down.
Bergs is a classic example. He doesn't give a fuck about the Wynn chips one way or the other. He never buys or sells chips here either. Yet here he is with nothing better to do than show up for the "shit on Rainman" show. (y) :thumbsup:
Good to know.
By the way, I am one of the new guys you talked about in your post and have more disposable income than many. Still take offense to your characterizations. This community wouldn't be what it is had it not been for the elders and experienced chippers, so some respect is needed, actually, deserved, even though I don't agree with many of them and have not seen eye to eye with quite a few. Crapping all over PCF for my personal gains is not something I would do.
If you'd like to repeat yourself any further you might want to quote someone who has said anything at all related to your point.
If you buy chips here for less than fair market value and you sell them for the same price, you're out nothing, and you've spread around some good will. If good will is worthless to you, good luck to you.
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