Gun Violence Tracker (6 Viewers)

Meddler2

Full House
Joined
Nov 6, 2014
Messages
3,326
Reaction score
2,868
Location
Pistola AL
77 mass shootings and climbing...
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

Current pace is 1 mass shooting every 1.45 days.

Mass shooting is defined as FOUR or more shot and/or killed in a single event [incident], at the same general time and location not including the shooter.
 
Although I'm appalled by gun violence (or any violence, for that matter), I couldn't help noticing that this map looks very much like a map of the US population. Not surprising.
 
Something that happens to a small number of people everyday isn't news. Rare events, like getting struck by lightning might make the news. Big events, like eight gangster style killings of the same family, that is news. Killings that fit the narrative of what is scary, those make news.

But vanilla daily killings, those don't go farther than the local news. Just like car wrecks, house fires and the such. Nothing to see here, move along to something really important.

DrStrange
 
Although I'm appalled by gun violence (or any violence, for that matter), I couldn't help noticing that this map looks very much like a map of the US population. Not surprising.
I've advocated outlawing high population density to try to combat crime.

Correlation equaling causation after all. Seems like an easy fix.
 
I just looked up gun murder and other murder rates broken down by state. In NH we have the lowest of both per 100,000 people. We do not have low gun ownership numbers.

DC has very low gun ownership numbers and very high rates of both types of murders.

Time to outlaw population density is what I'm reading in the data for sure.
 
The problem is unlawful guns, those in the hands of untrained, unsafe owners and guns being accessible to insane people. I can remediate these risks with a few common sense safety regulations. We are not going to reduce the risks to zero, but even one life saved would be worth it. Oh, and this is a law enforcement life saver too! A vote against common sense safely for our first responders is little less than you pulling the trigger yourself.

Here is my modest list of public safety gun/ammo regulations to help protect the public (reposted). Carefully crafted so as not to violate the second amendment rights we all enjoy as Americans but intended to save the precious lives of our children and brave police officers, as well as many other members of the law abiding public.

1. Mandatory registration of firearms and ammo with no grandfathering. Possession of an unregistered gun shall by a felony punishable by up to five years in prison and a $10,000 fine.
2. Annual mental health exams shall be required for a gun permit, the results of which must be included with the application for the gun permit. A gun owner is required to notify the state anytime a member of the household seeks mental health treatment of any kind. Failing a mental health exam shall require gun owners to divest themselves of all firearms and ammunition for the duration of the mental illness plus a year.
3. One gun per permit. Every gun requires a permit, no grandfathering.
4. No gun sales within 1,000 yards of a church, school, or government office (for public safety).
5. Annual renewals for permits with 20 hours of safety training each year. Includes 4 hours training on a gun range. States shall set the cost of a permit, but the fee must be large enough to defray all the governmental costs related to the Gun safety programs.
6. Every gun purchase shall require a visit to an urban trauma center to see videos of gun shot victims and to hear a lecture about the dangers of firearms. The Trauma center shall be allowed to charge a fee for this service, such fees can not be regulated by the state. The free market shall determine the proper price.
7. Gun owners will be required to demonstrate trigger guards, gun safes or similar safeguards prior to the issuance of a gun permit, or the renewal of a permit. Random home inspections by law enforcement and/or CPS will be conducted to insure these safeguard are properly used.
8. Every firing range shall have a paramedic on staff 100% of the time in case of accidents.
9. Gun ranges shall not be allowed inside the incorporated city limits of any municipality but must be within ten miles of a class one trauma center.
10. Ammo purchases require a current gun permit consistent with the type of ammo being purchased. Buyers will need to make three trips in person to the store over seven days to insure public safety. Reasonable limits on ammo purchases shall be established. No mail order purchases are allowed.
11. Gun owners are strictly liable for the misuse of their firearms no matter who the actual shooter is. They become criminally liable if negligence can be shown. A gun owner is negligent by statute if he/she is in violation of any gun control statute.
12. A citizen shall forfeit his/her second amendment rights for life if found in violation of any gun control statute.

There we go! Let's get guns out of the hands of irresponsible owners, the mentally unfit and start to dry up the supply of guns easily available to criminals. Of course a dedicated criminal will be able to find a gun with enough time and money. But that shouldn't deter the law. Essentially every law on the books was written knowing it would likely be violated. As a law abiding nation we know we need laws to define what is socially unacceptable and to define the proper punishment of misbehavior.

There are over a million law enforcement officers putting their lives on the line every day. Seventy five million American children are at risk. I call on our elected leaders to put aside their political difference and protect our children, our police while safeguarding our precious constitutional rights. Gun safety now!
 
I'm not a gun nut. I shoot holes in paper, and make metal targets go ping during nice weather as a way to enjoy the outdoors and relieve stress. I find target shooting relaxing.

I'm skeptical that those laws will actually do that much to reduce gun violence. It will do very little to reduce illegally obtained guns, which is the major source of guns used in violent crimes.

I'd give up my guns willingly in a heartbeat if I thought it would deter gun violence. I just don't see the path where gun laws are the primary driver in reducing violent crime.

Alleviating the disparity of wealth, providing meaningful educational opportunities, treating drug addiction as a medical problem not a criminal problem, paying living wages and providing health care benefits will all do more to reduce crime than changing gun laws.

Anyway, I think the laws you propose will just result in people like me selling their guns, not reducing actual gun violence.
 
Btw - no gun sales within 1000 yards of a church, school, etc. seems laughable that it is a safety provision. Do most gun crimes/accidents happen within 1000 yards of the point of sale.
 
Why take chances? We don't want our elected leaders, children or religious institutions to be even at the slightest risk. Safety first! It isn't as though there aren't plenty of safe places to market guns without putting soft targets at risk. Maybe 1,000 feet isn't right? Could be 500 fee is best, could be 2,500 feet. I'd let states decide so long as a minimal buffer between soft targets and weapon sales is maintained.

I am no dewy eyed optimist, I appreciate that safety measures only help in some cases. People still burn to death even with smoke detectors, still die in car crashes even with safety belts, children still poison themselves no matter that we used "child-proof" containers. But even so, we still use all of these measures because they help at the margins.

There are something like 270,000,000 guns in the United States. Sensible gun safety regulations will not lead to a massive decline in gun ownership, nor do we want it to. Every American citizen, who is responsible and sane, will be able to own the firearms of their choice if desired. But we can insure mentally ill people have a much harder time getting access to firearms. We can slow down a "hot head" from getting guns and ammo, giving them time to reconsider. I have no illusion that we will stop many criminals, radical Islamists or radical Christian terrorists. But those types of killings do not make up the bulk of gun deaths. Insane people killing themselves and/or others make up well over half of the shooting deaths in America.

My safety rules will save a few lives. Maybe your kid, maybe the friendly deputy that plays cards with me, maybe someone's depressed father - someone, somewhere every day. Over eighty people a day are killed by firearms, 30,000+ a year. So we "only" cut gun deaths by a few percent - that is a thousand people a year or one every eight hours.

Seems worth it to me -=- DrStrange
 
It's simply not perceived as a big enough health threat to warrant change. We've already established that 300,000 deaths over 10-yr span is acceptable. It will soon surpass all historical American combat related deaths. Gun control laws will never be passed because the political divide is too wide and we allow our elected officials to remain divided rather than find common footing. If just ONE of the Docs proposals became a reality, our current gun control laws would be improved 100% but because there's no historical data to support any change would reduce gun violence, we do nothing. Too stupid to legislate common sense.
 
Maybe we have a wave election coming in 2016? The bookies are giving 5-1 that the Democrats will control the US House, Senate and the Presidency. Shortly there after, the conservatives will be in the minority in the Supreme Court as well. Not promises, but the Democrats might be able to do quite a lot if they choose to make gun safety a priority.

Then again, probably not -=- DrStrange

PS we could quite a lot of good with just annual medical checks paired with annual renewal of permits.
 
I forgot to note that target shooters like Rob and me wouldn't even need a permit so long as the guns used belong to the shooting club and were used on site. Sport enthusiasts could pursue their hobby with little disruption under the supervision of a safely regulated gun range. It would be true that private gun ownership comes with common sense safety regulations and the cost for those would be borne by the gun owner. But that is a choice, a target shooter can put all the holes into paper they want and ping metal targets without any permit at the local gun club. I am a {bad} skeet shooter and that is exactly what I do right now.
 
Why take chances? We don't want our elected leaders, children or religious institutions to be even at the slightest risk. Safety first! It isn't as though there aren't plenty of safe places to market guns without putting soft targets at risk. Maybe 1,000 feet isn't right? Could be 500 fee is best, could be 2,500 feet. I'd let states decide so long as a minimal buffer between soft targets and weapon sales is maintained.

I am no dewy eyed optimist, I appreciate that safety measures only help in some cases. People still burn to death even with smoke detectors, still die in car crashes even with safety belts, children still poison themselves no matter that we used "child-proof" containers. But even so, we still use all of these measures because they help at the margins.

There are something like 270,000,000 guns in the United States. Sensible gun safety regulations will not lead to a massive decline in gun ownership, nor do we want it to. Every American citizen, who is responsible and sane, will be able to own the firearms of their choice if desired. But we can insure mentally ill people have a much harder time getting access to firearms. We can slow down a "hot head" from getting guns and ammo, giving them time to reconsider. I have no illusion that we will stop many criminals, radical Islamists or radical Christian terrorists. But those types of killings do not make up the bulk of gun deaths. Insane people killing themselves and/or others make up well over half of the shooting deaths in America.

My safety rules will save a few lives. Maybe your kid, maybe the friendly deputy that plays cards with me, maybe someone's depressed father - someone, somewhere every day. Over eighty people a day are killed by firearms, 30,000+ a year. So we "only" cut gun deaths by a few percent - that is a thousand people a year or one every eight hours.

Seems worth it to me -=- DrStrange

More people die from making poor food choices than gun violence every year. As soon as we get carcinogenic chemicals, junk food, trams fats, artificial sweeteners, added sugars, hormones and antibiotics out of the food supply, I'll be open to gun control arguments. Making only high quality food available will save more lives and reduce mental illness so dramatically, it may be a relative non-issue.

It will also serve to fix the health care crisis..

But you know what people want more than guns in this country? To eat themselves into illness and despair. No way will you ever get all the crap out of the food supply. People won't allow it, and big business won't allow it.

Next, how about meaningful public transit in this country? How many deaths per year by cars do we need? but people will never give up their autonomy of one car one driver.

Until we do that, the gun control argument just looks like another issue that divides the population and keeps real social evolution from taking place. You want to reduce your risk for gun violence, move to a rural setting in an affluent part of the country.

I also think that gun control to prevent suicide is looking to solve the wrong problem. We deal with chronic suffering poorly in this country, and end of life issues are badly handled. Who are you to say that that depressed father hasn't suffered enough?

I've lost 8 friends to suicide. Actual friends. People I knew well, including an ex-girlfriend. You think I don't wish all of them were still around? But at least some of them were suffering horribly, and I think they have found the only peace they were going to. Some of them might have had a chance to live without suffering, but I don't think they could find that path.

These issues are more important to me than the hopeless dream of making us safer with gun control.
 
Btw - none of my friends who committed suicide used guns, and for some of them, it might have been a more merciful way to go.
 
Approximately 2/3 of gun deaths each year are suicides. Roughly 12,000 homicides each year against a 30-35,000 total gun deaths. Out of a 300,000,000+ people in the US, that's rounding error.

Most progressives probably support a persons right to choose to die? Just not by handgun, I suppose.
 
Btw - none of my friends who committed suicide used guns, and for some of them, it might have been a more merciful way to go.

Ummmmm, Srsly??? What is the point that you are trying to make? That your friends were not very smart for not using one?
 
@Mojo1312 , I think @Chicken Rob meant that suicide is the real issue. The comment about using a gun means that maybe they would have passed sooner and not had to suffer with whatever means they chose, nothing about the intelligence of their choice. I feel like that's a huge leap to make to your conclusion, not sure how you got there.
 
Ummmmm, Srsly??? What is the point that you are trying to make? That your friends were not very smart for not using one?
Some of my friends died by ways that were not as instant as they hoped, and they suffered as they died slowly.

I meant that suicide by gun might have been less suffering for them.

I think everyone should have the right to a peaceful passing under their own terms. But since safely performed assisted suicide is illegal, a lot of additional suffering is inflicted as people who feel they have no other option try to die.

My most recent friend who killed himself tried 3 times, in earnest, before he succeeded. When he finally did succeed, it took the police weeks to positively ID the body, as he was sure not to fail a 3rd time.

He had suffered terribly for 25 years before opting this route. Who is society to say he doesn't deserve a break from the suffering.

He went to his friends and family to say goodbye, and no one took strong action to try to stop him. We all knew he suffered. He spent his last weekend on earth at my house. I got the news the following Friday.

It would be nice if he hadn't been suffering, but keeping him alive just meant years more torment for him.
 
Can anyone name the country with the 3rd most guns per capita? Newsflash, it's the country with one of the lowest crime rates in the world. #4 in gun ownership is a similar story...
 
Approximately 2/3 of gun deaths each year are suicides. Roughly 12,000 homicides each year against a 30-35,000 total gun deaths. Out of a 300,000,000+ people in the US, that's rounding error.

Most progressives probably support a persons right to choose to die? Just not by handgun, I suppose.

I'm the black sheep. Pro-gun progressive.
 
More people die from making poor food choices than gun violence every year. As soon as we get carcinogenic chemicals, junk food, trams fats, artificial sweeteners, added sugars, hormones and antibiotics out of the food supply, I'll be open to gun control arguments. Making only high quality food available will save more lives and reduce mental illness so dramatically, it may be a relative non-issue.

You can't kill someone by throwing chicken nuggets at them.

If you can, that's how I wanna go.
 
You guys are completely missing the point. Nobody on this thread had mentioned taking your guns away. Yes suicide by gun is high % but if those people hd to pass a rigorous medical screening then MAYBE just maybe they would have received the medical attention they needed and the overall suicide rate by guns would be reduced.
It's absolute shameful that anybody believes to do nothing is the best option. If you're in that camp, then youre a selfish idiot.

I guess it will take the death by gun of someone dear to you to change your mind. Similar to DWI. Nobody gives a rip until it happens to you.
 
You guys are completely missing the point. Nobody on this thread had mentioned taking your guns away. Yes suicide by gun is high % but if those people hd to pass a rigorous medical screening then MAYBE just maybe they would have received the medical attention they needed and the overall suicide rate by guns would be reduced.
It's absolute shameful that anybody believes to do nothing is the best option. If you're in that camp, then youre a selfish idiot.
I don't believe doing nothing is the right thing. I just hate how everybody gets all worked up about guns because of fear of violence, and nobody gets worked up about wheat crops that are treated with roundup to make them easy to harvest, resulting in known carcinogens in our food supply.

also, you have obviously had good health for the most part so far, or you would not be speaking so favorably about the current state of medicine in this country. I would bet more people die because of bad medical care/advice than guns, and there is no outrage about that either.

Of all the problems we face in the US, guns are a political target because its easy to polarize the people, and deflect attention from the real issues.
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account and join our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Back
Top Bottom