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Guns you own (5 Viewers)

Trihonda said:
...again, I’m not hating on the AR, but i have to wonder why the AR has surged so heavily in recommendations for HD. I cede it’s not a bad platform for some, given the right circumstances...

but consider this... ARs (and assault riffles in general) have gotten a bad rap in several active shooter incidents in recent years, and the gun control folks have come after it HARD core. It wasn’t until these attacks on gun ownership, and assault rifles, that we saw a huge surge to tout the AR as the ultimate HD platform. “See, we need assault rifles because they’re the best HD defense option”. The gun industry has pushed this premise HARD! Industry Experts abound, but I’m not completely sold that it’s the only, or even best option (and I have a wealth of my own experience and training).

Im firmly against the “this is the best” mindset, as everyone is different, and each situation is different. Love this debate though. :).
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Nice rifle! Cant get better than BCM. Im mostly a Colt guy myself (3 plus a 11.5” upper on a LMT MARS lower) but plan on building an all BCM Precision rifle before the election.

I’m not sure I would buy into the “industry” thing. I follow the firearms industry pretty close but I’ve never perceived the manufacturers to be pushing ARs for HD. I actually don’t see much marketing at all. They pretty much sell themselves. The stigma around it is why I think it isn’t UNIVERSALLY accepted as the best choice for HD.

As for the recent recommendations, I think the AR is recommended more these days because more people own them rather than just shotguns and pistols. Competent Instructors are always going to recommend you use the weapon you are most proficient in. This is why the gun next to my bed (currently) is a pistol. I’ve trained and shot with pistols for 20 years and (not to sound obnoxious) I am extremely competent with a pistol. But it took a long time to get there. When I got seriously into ARs, the learning curve was exponentially shorter. When I get a my suppressor for my 11.5” AR and figure out how to secure and stage it for HD, that will replace the pistol.

The AR is also the most configurable weapon platform in existence....completely customizable to the person or situation. That and the general knowledge base of firearms enthusiasts is higher now that it ever was (still a lot of idiots though) People have been talking about the AR for HD for at least 10-15 years or more. It’s just has become more popular among the general gun owning public (Not just former military and the type of people taking classes, reading books, and following forums like m4carbine.net and lightfighter.com).



The major advantage the AR has over other rifles is that it’s light and the small cartridge doesn’t over penetrate through walls....meaning a shot fired in a house will most likely stay in the house. That can’t be said for any pistol over 380 or buckshot. As they say “there is a lawyer attached to every bullet”. Ballistics is also why the military (mostly SOCOM people) switched to 10.3” M4s (MK18s) for CQB and house clearing rather than sub guns like they used to. You can get the same compact size but with ammo that is several times more effective than pistol ammo out of a sub machine gun. The FBI HRT teams also use 11.5” ARs rather than the subguns.

Shotguns? Thats sooooo 1985;)
 
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Best ear protection for indoor range? Prefer cans, nothing in my ears. Don’t need to use these for Bluetooth or other purposes.
 
Old State said:
Nice rifle! Cant get better than BCM. Im mostly a Colt guy myself (3 plus a 11.5” upper on a LMT MARS lower) but plan on building an all BCM Precision rifle before the election.
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I own a colt AR, 70’s-80’s era HBAR. I wanted to convert it to a shorter barrel, adjustable stock, etc.. and my gun buddies threatened to kill me... so I’ve kept it orig.

The BCM is my daily user.

The comment about industry pushing the AR was more intended to refer to the “community” of gun enthusiasts pushing a justification of the platform in response to the negative media backlash (and I don’t necessarily disagree with the justification). I understand your arguments, and I feel like it’s bit of both.

Overall, You make valid points, and I’ve seen many YouTube videos with similar arguments. Im not against the AR for HD, and if I were under assault, and had time, I might grab an AR to defend my home. But even with my training and experience with rifles, I’ll be much more nimble and nearly as accurate with a handgun. At the distances we are talking, in my home, there isn’t much I can’t hit with a handgun. And 99% of SD or HD scenarios don’t involve the need for 30rd mags. :).

and of those videos I’ve watched, a number are credible, and a number are bafoon chisel-chest tac guys who seem like they’re trying to show how much they know, but are not factoring the reality of a real life Soccer mom Slinging an AR to clear their suburban home Against a group of armed intruders... That’s the stuff of movies and people who are already gun enthusiasts. People who aren’t gun enthusiasts and are just looking for a gun for HD, without much experience, aren’t going Likely to go to an AR platform. Which is perfectly fine. :)
 
Trihonda said:
But I’d argue that the right person, with the right training, CAN adequately deploy a rifle in a HD scenario.
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Concur, though I suppose the right person with the right training could use a .38, a taser, a butter knife, a katana, etc. With enough training, right? Vast majority of folks won’t train much at all, let alone to that level.

Which leads right into this: “You do realize some of the most highly respected firearms instructors and experts in the world...”

Highly trained people recommend something they are highly trained with...no surprise there.

I am not biased against or for a platform. Used them all. The AR is, by far, the most complex of the three basic systems (rifle, shotgun and pistol) I’ve used, seen used and seen people learn. Not something I would suggest for the regular person who will end up not training enough with it (majority of buyers?).

Do what you want, and believe what balistic studies or videos you want, but based on what I’ve seen in person, on video, etc., for HD I would never prioritize discharging a .223/5.56 round inside my residence.

So, yeah, I don’t have the inclination to do a point by point breakdown on this, but I think that idea is wacky but YO/EMV.

Anyway, who has more pics?
 
Saoliver said:
I prefer amplified ear pro, with earplugs inside. This is the combo that I use.

https://www.amazon.com/Howard-Leight-Honeywell-Amplification-Electronic/dp/B001T7QJ9O

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/1591108320?pid=556344&utm_medium=shopping&utm_source=connexity&utm_campaign=Shooting+-+Ear+&+Eye+Protection&utm_content=556344

These are a good value, but there are better and more expensive options.
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Definitely double up indoors. I used to just use electronic earmuffs indoors and I have very slight tinnitus now


Trihonda said:
I own a colt AR, 70’s-80’s era HBAR. I wanted to convert it to a shorter barrel, adjustable stock, etc.. and my gun buddies threatened to kill me... so I’ve kept it orig.

I’ll be much more nimble and nearly as accurate with a handgun. At the distances we are talking, in my home, there isn’t much I can’t hit with a handgun. And 99% of SD or HD scenarios don’t involve the need for 30rd mags. :).

and of those videos I’ve watched, a number are credible, and a number are bafoon chisel-chest tac guys who seem like they’re trying to show how much they know, but are not factoring the reality of a real life Soccer mom Slinging an AR to clear their suburban home Against a group of armed intruders... That’s the stuff of movies and people who are already gun enthusiasts. People who aren’t gun enthusiasts and are just looking for a gun for HD, without much experience, aren’t going Likely to go to an AR platform. Which is perfectly fine. :)
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Now that Colt stopped making rifles I would leave them alone...especial old ones. Probably will be collectible. Mine are all LE 6920s so I’m not sure how collectible they are. I did pick up another one the week they made the announcement just to keep.

As for the other stuff, yes there are a lot of yahoos online. However the guys I listed are definitely not that. I’m sure there is a bit of justification going on but I think most of what is coming out now is a more scientific, ballistics, and reason based. Besides the major advantage the 5.56/.223 has in both lethality and non penetration, what most of these instructors are saying is this: starting from scratch (if you only had one day to get a novice up to speed for example) I would trust them more to defend ME with a AR over a pistol. It would be far easier to make hits with a low recoiling rifle like the AR. Most people I see at the range shooting Pistols just plain suck. Like almost everyone I see. Most can’t consistently hit a paper plate at 10 yards...with zero stress.

Many new gun owners who flat out discount an AR for HD do so because they have uneducated assumptions and don’t know what they don’t know. They usually buy what ever the gun store owners wants to sell them. I’m happy you have met knowledgeable gun store owners. I have not. Most are completely full of shit in my experience.

As for ammo capacity: no person ever in a gun fight said “I wish I had less ammo”.
 
BNM said:
Concur, though I suppose the right person with the right training could use a .38, a taser, a butter knife, a katana, etc. With enough training, right? Vast majority of folks won’t train much at all, let alone to that level.

Which leads right into this: “You do realize some of the most highly respected firearms instructors and experts in the world...”

Highly trained people recommend something they are highly trained with...no surprise there.

I am not biased against or for a platform. Used them all. The AR is, by far, the most complex of the three basic systems (rifle, shotgun and pistol) I’ve used, seen used and seen people learn. Not something I would suggest for the regular person who will end up not training enough with it (majority of buyers?).

Do what you want, and believe what balistic studies or videos you want, but based on what I’ve seen in person, on video, etc., for HD I would never prioritize discharging a .223/5.56 round inside my residence.

So, yeah, I don’t have the inclination to do a point by point breakdown on this, but I think that idea is wacky but YO/EMV.

Anyway, who has more pics?
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Sorry but This post is full of a ton of bad information.

First, Those instructors I mentioned are recommending ARs to the average citizen.

Second, the AR is the simplest platform to become proficient in. There isn’t a competent instructor and anyone that has extensively used those types of weapons that would ever say that. That is the WHOLE reason they are recommending them to the AVERAGE citizen. I’m curious, what specifically do you find more complex about the AR vs a pistol?

Third you need to read up on firing different ammo in a house. There tons of video demonstrating this. Buckshot, 9mm, 45 all have significantly more penetration through dry wall etc than the 5.56/.223.

Not trying to be a jerk, but If you don’t have the time or inclination to back up your claims then you shouldn’t be making them.

 
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Jambine said:
I must have missed something. I don't see how a semi-auto rifle is as simple and easy to use as a wheel gun
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What is easier to make accurate hits under stress...that’s what most instructors are concerned with. I don’t know how anyone who has used an AR could ever think they would be more accurate under stress with a pistol of any type. It’s takes FAR more trading to be as proficient making hits with a pistol than a rifle...especially one as light weight, ergonomic, and low recoiling as the AR.
 
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be sure to break it down for cleaning every time you use it

1589559100939.png
 
Jambine said:
I was talking about simple and easy to use. Clearly a rifle is more accurate than a pistol
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Not exactly the point. It is easier for the average person with minimal training to make ACCURATE hits on target with a rifle than a pistol AT PISTOL distances hits on target with a rifle than a pistol AT PISTOL distances.

Jambine said:
be sure to break it down for cleaning every time you use it

View attachment 459434
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I assume you are be being humorous? What does a schematic of a rifle have to do with cleaning it? It’s takes no longer to clean my AR than my M&P pistols. And both can go hundred of rounds (probably thousands if I tried) with just lube and no cleaning.

Good luck cleaning your revolver o_O :tdown:
F2F2E424-3C96-4B15-96A4-225FBE333C14.jpeg
 
Old State said:
Not exactly the point. It is easier for the average person with minimal training to make ACCURATE hits on target with a rifle than a pistol AT PISTOL distances hits on target with a rifle than a pistol AT PISTOL distances.
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I agree completely with this clarified statement.

Can't resist another poke. Do you completely disassemble your weapon when you clean it after shooting?
 
you want pics so here are some...

my current HD pistol on top and what will be my HD AR on the bottom (when I get my suppressor)

M&P 45 on top. I chose this only because if have a few thousand rounds through this one and am very accurate with it. It was my IDPA gun. Otherwise I’d use my 9mm.

The AR is an all Colt upper with a 11.5” FBI barrel. It was originally a complete 6920 but I put it on this LMT “pistol” lower beacasue I didn’t want to SBR the Colt lower after they stopped making rifle for the public. The light is a very slim Arisaka 300 with a Surefire tape switch and a Cloud Defensive Wire management solution. I’m showing that because of how slick it makes things! Highly recommended
 

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Jambine said:
I have an old Colt .45, 1911
Broke down for cleaning. This pic is nowhere near disassembled

View attachment 459448
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haha....what’s left to take apart? The ejector and the sights?

I have two 1911s; one is an accurised target pistol and the other used to be my old carry gun (compact). I used the latter for IDPA and quickly realized the the draw backs of the 1911. Went to the M&P 45 because it has the ergonomics of a 1911 and has the option for a thumb safety which is what I was used to. I added an Apex FSS trigger which mimics a 1911. The gun is as accurate as an off-the-shelf 1911 but substantially more reliable with multiple types of ammunition ...and even has a lower bore axis.

As for cleaning I rarely completely disassemble any gun as it’s not necessary for routine cleaning. For a pistol I just clean the barrel and spray out the internals with a gun cleaner. Then use and air compressor to blow all that out.

For an non precision AR you can run a patch down the barrel and clean the chamber out every few hundred rounds. I’ll pull the bolt out of the bolt carrier and spray all that off with cleaner. If there is a ton of carbon on the bolt tail I may use a tool to get some of that off....but it’s not that important.

What is VERY important is keeping it well lubed. An AR built with quality components and properly assembled will run thousands of rounds with just adding lube every 2-300.

For my carry and HD pistol, I always make sure they are clean after shooting them a lot.

But even with 1911s you should rarely need to completely break them down like in the pic you showed.

Jambine said:
Perhaps i'm overstating everything. My point is:
a semi-auto is vastly more complicated than a revolver
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I don’t see this at all. Revolvers are far more complex to reload though. That’s why no one really uses them for defense anymore. Maybe a very small revolver has a purpose now days but we live in a 9mm polymer pistol and AR world for self defense. Shotguns and revolvers have limited practical use anymore. Police abandoned both of them long ago.
 
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Old State said:
Sorry but This post is full of a ton of bad information.

First, Those instructors I mentioned are recommending ARs to the average citizen.

Second, the AR is the simplest platform to become proficient in. There isn’t a competent instructor and anyone that has extensively used those types of weapons that would ever say that. That is the WHOLE reason they are recommending them to the AVERAGE citizen. I’m curious, what specifically do you find more complex about the AR vs a pistol?

Third you need to read up on firing different ammo in a house. There tons of video demonstrating this. Buckshot, 9mm, 45 all have significantly more penetration through dry wall etc than the 5.56/.223.

Not trying to be a jerk, but If you don’t have the time or inclination to back up your claims then you shouldn’t be making them.

Click to expand...

*sigh* Yeah, I disagree with you based on my experience. Not gonna go point by point on this as it’s clearly never ending with you due to your obvious passion for the AR. Based on your manifestos I am pretty confident nothing I said would be enough justification for you. It/you aren’t that much of a priority.

I will, of course, continue to share my experience and thoughts on this thread and any of the others on the forum to the degree I wish. Your suggestion to the contrary is amusing. And telling. Thanks for the confirmation.

Point to the potential buyer Is underscored by this series of posts: Do your research, talk to a number of folks, and be very careful before...wait for it...”pulling the trigger” on a purchase like this.
 
Never owned a gun. But think I want to purchase a hand gun for home protection.

Suggestions? I am a big guy with big hands, but like I said, a first time owner. I have literally no idea where to start.
 
sir bluffs alot said:
Never owned a gun. But think I want to purchase a hand gun for home protection.

Suggestions? I am a big guy with big hands, but like I said, a first time owner. I have literally no idea where to start.
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I too am looking at some training when social distancing is lifted. I don’t know anything about guns and would like something for HD.

I was looking at a Kimber Aegis Ultra Elite but only cause they look pretty. I just watch video reviews on them but need to take a course and then take one to the range.
 
joeyshin said:
I too am looking at some training when social distancing is lifted. I don’t know anything about guns and would like something for HD.

I was looking at a Kimber Aegis Ultra Elite but only cause they look pretty. I just watch video reviews on them but need to take a course and then take one to the range.
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I don’t even know where a range is... lol
 
@joeyshin
A good friend of mine is a member here, I’ve been his guest on a couple of occasions. They have classes for all levels of firearm training.
If your still in NOVA, might be a good place to check out.
4C7C7779-8F78-4F0E-8CCF-97C577E0E14C.png
 
BNM said:
*sigh* Yeah, I disagree with you based on my experience. Not gonna go point by point on this as it’s clearly never ending with you due to your obvious passion for the AR. Based on your manifestos I am pretty confident nothing I said would be enough justification for you. It/you aren’t that much of a priority.

I will, of course, continue to share my experience and thoughts on this thread and any of the others on the forum to the degree I wish. Your suggestion to the contrary is amusing. And telling. Thanks for the confirmation.

Point to the potential buyer Is underscored by this series of posts: Do your research, talk to a number of folks, and be very careful before...wait for it...”pulling the trigger” on a purchase like this.
Click to expand...

please, share any relevant experience you have. I’d love to hear it. I really wish you would consider explaining your comments point by point.
sir bluffs alot said:
@Old State you got me covered?
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Of course. The club near us (The one I belong to) just reopened too
 
FYI, that Navy Seal video is kinda whack... lol.. they seemed to be making a comparison in order to support their assertions about 5.56. I mean, the idea they used “ball“ 9mm ammo in a +P Is ludicrous, especially when they start out by saying they’re testing ammo and walls in common HD situations. Ball 9mm ammo is designed to penetrate, and is a sucky round for SD or HD. And they used a SMG length barrel, which arguably would increase the FPS even more. A better comparison would be Ball 9mm vs HD self defense rounds ... shot from a pistol :). I can guess what I’ll be doing for the next half hour (searching youtube). Lol

Here’s the defensive rounds I use (cuz ppl asked for pics). They’re hot loads, but designed to deliver max stopping power. But I'm curious about over penetration of these loads, so i can’t wait to find some videos. I wouldn’t want to be hit with one. Regardless, there’s a huge, huge difference between 9mm ball and one of these loads.

ED8125D3-FCF5-4BC0-AA06-1098CD1C726F.jpeg
1282B83D-2B65-4F55-A559-CA6D4463B53E.jpeg
B1D2DDF0-B986-4F08-BDAD-ADAC4D1885B8.jpeg
A715D55C-A2AA-4FE0-9A5B-F44647417FBF.jpeg


edited to include an interesting video (first one I found) comparing the above Critical Duty rounds to ball ammo. The results were interesting, and of course the ball ammo, performed as suspected. However, the CD ammo Didn’t frange as much as would have thought.

 
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