Hand from Live! last night (1 Viewer)

[Chippy McChiperson]

He may try to rep what we have. I think that's more likely than him calling a bet with tens or queens. Also, if he does somehow have a jack, we probably don't get stacked here.

 

[jbutler]

He may try to rep what we have. I think that's more likely than him calling a bet with tens or queens. Also, if he does somehow have a jack, we probably don't get stacked here.

i disagree that someone who flatted the flop and watched us check twice after 4-betting pre is going to think deeply enough to try to turn what was obviously a made hand into a bluff and yet also not think deeply enough to realize we have AK a huge portion of the time here. $1/2 players want to showdown way too much for me to want to rely on him turning a hand into a bluff.

 

[bergs]

He's hoping his TT beats our 99. Bet $50 and hope to get a call.

 

[grandgnu]

$247 in the pot, I believe you said $220 effective stacks remaining on this river. Villian will check behind all the middle or high pairs we now beat on this river, but may call a bet. Villian may also check behind AQ/AT hands that we beat as well.

I bet $80 with a plan to fold if villain comes over the top (because if he does come over the top, it's unlikely he's doing it with AQ or QQ)

 

[guinness]

I seem to be solo here but I'm hating how this hand is playing out from the start. Overplaying AK with a terrible table image versus unknown is just a recipe for donk. You've been running card dead (spoiler alert: your peers don't see it that way, they just believe you are not playing good). "Card dead" is always table-interpreted as "Can't play" unless its a low limit table with the geezers.

Personally, I love playing post flop, especially turn and river. Getting in ~30 BB's pre, shipping ~40 BB's post flop with air doesn't give me much wiggle room to play turn and river if I elect to steal without jamming. Even if new guy has 88+, he may feel committed on any steal you make on the turn/river. So effectively I believe you've dug a hole for yourself overplaying Pre and Post to be able to put any fear into this man on the turn or river, assuming he hasn't already hit yahtzee. It already smells like a bluff IMO when you hammer on a polarized flop. If you are rep'ing strong and believe new guy isn't holding a J, you don't need to hammer the flop so I don't think betting the flop sells any concealment of strength. If you checked flop and he made a sizable bet, would you go to war with new guy? You think he wants to show up and dump his stack to newbies on a bluff? Of course not. Check fold flop and pick a muuuuuch better spot. You're getting ahead of yourself with a stranger. Personally I bet he would have checked behind on the flop.

I think you are saving money by flatting 11BB pre, checking flop (with him eventually checking behind), bet 20BB turn, then evaluate river bet for potential steal or made card. My problem is that you are sad that you haven't won yet and the board is only half over yet half your stack is gone. You seem suspicious and I believe new guy is holding 88+. Unless you are ready to jam turn and kick yourself in the nuts driving home at 2am, I think this hand is already out of control for what you know about this guy.

I believe best played is flatting 11BB pre, folding to any bet flop against stranger, or if checked, small steal on turn, then reboot for another hand or go home frustrated without stacks shipped. I think this is the classic overplayed AK.

 

[grandgnu]

I seem to be solo here but I'm hating how this hand is playing out from the start. Overplaying AK with a terrible table image versus unknown is just a recipe for donk.

You are not alone

I actually prefer a smooth-call of the raise here. We have zero information on this villain and will be OOP post-flop. Reraising may put us in a spot where worse hands fold and better hands call or reraise (of course, if you're uncomfortable playing post-flop oop, reraising here may be the wiser choice to avoid potentially stacking off).

 

[guinness]

I will say that if/when you decide to go to war with someone, sell a story. Don't be the continuous leader outter, because rather than a story developing its become "does he haffit or not" which is duh duh poker. Example, if he doesn't check flop but leads 20BB and you're apt to believe he's protecting middle pair, I'd flat then hijack the hand on turn with your 40BB bet. This allows you to spread your chips slower with bigger strength rep and likely induce a fold at the right time vs "bet big, go away, bet big, go away" type marquee above your head.

Edit: I still wouldn't play it like above, but just trying to prove a point that you can induce folding by playing slower and selling a story if you believe opponent has underpair.

 

[Forty4]

I read Guinness post's and realize I have some serious thinking to do about my playing. Of course I've always been better with the theory away from the table and get caught up in the moment (or so I think)

 

[guinness]

I read Guinness post's and realize I have some serious thinking to do about my playing. Of course I've always been better with the theory away from the table and get caught up in the moment (or so I think)

If I have 6+ beers in me which is common at the chip collector meatups/meetups, I will say that Krafty played it right and he should jam turn LOL. I had a huge leak of jamming turn or rivers with aggro streets that I think I've buttoned up. I just got sick of feeling like I had no other option but to jam after so much money is in a pot but lately I've been romancing pots and letting non-emotional evaluations unfold on turn/river. When you lead out with A high so strong pre and post flop, you end up "like duh I dunno anything but jam" on the following streets. It reminds me of when George Costanza was bringing his in-laws to his house on the Hamptons that didn't exist. It just gets more and more cringe worthy to all involved as it progresses.

 

[Ben]

Late to the party - $62 preflop = good.

Not a fan of leading this flop in this spot - villains love to "put you on AK" here and call down with any pair. I check flop and probably jam over any bet in the $50-$75 range. This is a much stronger move in most $1/$2 villains' eyes and with our nitty and/or unknown image, I wouldn't be at all surprised to get villain off QQ - although he probably has worse. If he checks behind, it's a whole different ballgame.

As played - we definitely bingoed him on the river. I'm never making any bet other than shoving unless I'm planning to rack my chips immediately after the hand - remember the rest of the table is watching. Hope he has AQ, or makes some kind of hero call with a smaller pair. If we bet small it's REALLY obvious what we have, and no guarantee he calls any amount with worse, and will check all smaller pairs behind.

 

[krafticus]

I really need to learn so much more, as I am slowly finding out that poker might not be my game.

* results *

Hero checks again to see what villain does. Hero realized he played the hand very bad, and was hoping villain would check.

Villain shoves, almost immediately. Hero thinks for what seemed like a minute....and calls. Villain tables AQ and hero drags the pot.

In the end, the results were good, but I knew i played the hand rather poorly. I'm finding i have a hard time ranging players And always seem to make the wrong play. I want to get better, but seem to be headed in the wrong direction.

I am envious of you guys that can play the game well, i really am.

Mark

 

[MrBo]

Don't be so hard on yourself Mark, I really don't think you played this hand terribly, and not just because the results worked out in this particular instance. Against your average $1/2 donk (which this guy kind of appears to be) I think calling the river shove is +EV after you bink the Ace. In absolute dollars it may seem dicey but when you mathmathmath I think it's an easier call. Biggest things I would self-evaluate in this hand is (1) pre-flop decision to build a pot against unknown OOP and (2) backing off once you take the aggressive route. IMO Villain is calling the flop cbet with a weak enough range that we can put him in a very tough spot with a lot of his holdings by firing the turn. I think you got lucky here that he did not take the opportunity to buy himself the pot on the turn and then hit the river A to help both of you. What would you have done on the river if a blank came after Villain checks back the turn?

 

[grandgnu]

Villians river shove seems pretty bad. Note it and exploit

 

[krafticus]

Don't be so hard on yourself Mark, I really don't think you played this hand terribly, and not just because the results worked out in this particular instance. Against your average $1/2 donk (which this guy kind of appears to be) I think calling the river shove is +EV after you bink the Ace. In absolute dollars it may seem dicey but when you mathmathmath I think it's an easier call. Biggest things I would self-evaluate in this hand is (1) pre-flop decision to build a pot against unknown OOP and (2) backing off once you take the aggressive route. IMO Villain is calling the flop cbet with a weak enough range that we can put him in a very tough spot with a lot of his holdings by firing the turn. I think you got lucky here that he did not take the opportunity to buy himself the pot on the turn and then hit the river A to help both of you. What would you have done on the river if a blank came after Villain checks back the turn?

I think i got lucky this time. I haven't had a winning session in months. Sometimes it is bad beats, sometimes it is me chasing and missing very draw while I can't avoid being drawn out on.

I'm not ready to quit yet, but i think if I lose most of the roll again, I'm not building it back.

Even this session, i took a bad beat later on losing about $100 ending my session +20. (but played a $20 tournament earlier, busted and went to Live!).

Mark

 

[BGinGA]

I think the question you need to ask yourself is:

Do you really enjoy playing?

If so, continue to do so (and stop worrying about artificial results, and focus on self-improvement instead).

If not, quit now and save the rest of your roll for something else. Host, hang out, whatever, but don't play. You'll feel better.

 

[bergs]

I don't like thinking Guinness. I like jamming draws run it twice let's chop 7 dollars and drink more beer Guinness. #freeguinness

 

[grandgnu]

I think i got lucky this time. I haven't had a winning session in months. Sometimes it is bad beats, sometimes it is me chasing and missing very draw while I can't avoid being drawn out on.

I'm not ready to quit yet, but i think if I lose most of the roll again, I'm not building it back.

Even this session, i took a bad beat later on losing about $100 ending my session +20. (but played a $20 tournament earlier, busted and went to Live!).

Mark

Not sure what games are available where you play, but if there are limit Omaha hi/lo games you could give those a shot. I recommend the section in Super System 2 to give you a basic primer for strategy on the game, and then Mike Cappelletti's Omaha hi/lo Split Poker for more advanced techniques (if you play in more aggressive or short-handed games)

You'll find O8 has much lower variance, and being a limit game you don't have to worry about seeing your entire buyin vanish in a single hand.

 

[krafticus]

I think the question you need to ask yourself is:

Do you really enjoy playing?

If so, continue to do so (and stop worrying about artificial results, and focus on self-improvement instead).

If not, quit now and save the rest of your roll for something else. Host, hang out, whatever, but don't play. You'll feel better.

I enjoy winning. Seriously, I do enjoy playing, I Just want to get better.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Mark I've noticed some things you're doing differently in your game lately that may be affecting your win rate. If you're interested give me a call or pm me, I can float a couple ideas by you.

 

[MeridianFC]

I see there's too much thinking going on, I'm definitely going to stay away from Maryland Live!

 

[BiGGyT]

Enjoyed the strategy discussion on this one, I like the "romance the pot" rather than jam jam it, like the difference between hard and soft porn. Being a poker retard where gut feeling sometimes outweighs logic, it is good to think these situations through outside of the heat of battle so that next time I am not sacrificing all my chips solely on a gut feeling.

However, am I alone in thinking Maryland Live! is one of the worst casino names?

BiGGyT

 

[MikesDad]

However, am I alone in thinking Maryland Live! is one of the worst casino names?

BiGGyT

Not sure if it's one of the worst ever, but there can't be more than 1000 better choices

 

[tripleflatbarrel]

I'm flatting pre.

Pretty reliable live tell that you mentioned and nobody has addressed:

You say he "wasn't paying attention" yet he put in a raise. Huge red flag. This is the same as the guy who appears to be looking past the table to the TV, has to be alerted action is on him, then shoves all in. *Hint* he has the nuts 108% of the time. If V was chatting, didn't check his cards until action was on him, then announced raise, it may have been a mistake. But if V had peeked his cards then announced "raise" when action was on him, he's pretty strong. Your situation takes a bit more savvy than the guy who acts uninterested then shoves, which makes it more reliable to me. After an hour or so of playing you should be able to pick up on who is savvy enough to pull these slightly angle shooting-ish reverse tells. I would expect AQ to be the bottom of the range for the average 1/2 V to pull off the ole' "I'm not paying attention.... raise" line.

 

[tripleflatbarrel]

I enjoy winning. Seriously, I do enjoy playing, I Just want to get better.

Suggestions:

Harrington on Cash Games- Great foundation for a solid cash game. When I got back into poker and decided to focus solely on cash, this really helped me get the tournament and general donk kinks out of my game. It's not anything high level but it's a great course correction, at least it was for me.

Watch Live at the Bike- Tuesday and Thursday nights, streamed live on YouTube and their website. The commentators are for the most part excellent and give great insight. It's also a more salient game (anywhere from 1/3 to 10/20, usually 5/5) than trying to take lessons from say old High Stake Poker episodes to your 1/2 game. They're actually broadcasting a 50/100 game Friday night which should be fun.

Crush Live Poker- I subscribed to the podcasts earlier this month and can't get enough. I just listen to them on my commute. Some of his strat gets pretty high level, but he keeps everything in the reference of live low stakes and if you start with his 101 curriculum and get those lessons down you'll instantly become a better player.