Have Chinese cards mold replica sets gone too far? (3 Viewers)

[davislane]

Hot take. Unless your ripping off an individuals customs everything else is fair game. just understand the consequences.

#corporationsdonthavefeelings.

 

[Lil Tuna]

Well said. I think one of the underpinnings of this hobby - and by extension the community as a whole is the fact that there's something for everyone. If you want to fill multiple cabinets with playable sets that will seldom see the felt, go for it. If you want to collect singles in any and all fashions - knock yourself out. Some are attracted to the challenge of the chase - while others just like to accumulate for the sake of doing so. And then there are people like me... I just like getting to run my games using cool shit (that have a meaningful history to them) that few others on the planet own or could even acquire without a substantial amount of effort.

All are welcome.

@upNdown

From reading your posts in this thread, I'm getting the impression you dislike the CM replicas but perhaps are having difficulty articulating why. My impression is you're taking issue with fact that the replicas circumvent the one bylaw we all are required to adhere to as chippers regardless of what we seek: Scarcity.

The thing is, the CM chips are ENTRY LEVEL regardless of what is printed on them. They might be the best entry level product on the market for all the obvious reasons, but they're still entry level.

My first BMW was a piece of shit that was 10 years old and had 110k on the odometer when I bought it for $9k. For me though, it was the best $9k I'd ever spent and I'd rather buy that than a newer model year Kia or Pontiac with half the miles. Because it was a Bimmer!

Never mind the fact that it had mechanical problems the entire time I owned it and it sucked driving it in the Michigan winters. So after a couple years I upgraded to an AWD model taking a loss in the process. The point I'm trying to make is I knew it wasn't the last BMW I was going to own when I bought it, and now I'm on my 3rd. And I'm sure there were those who saw that car and said to themselves 'that's a poor man's BMW'. I didn't care. I knew that when I bought it.

Same paradigm goes for many other things. I mean - does anyone still own their first Fleshlight? LOL

My very first “love” in poker chips and yes I still own them.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

It wasn’t a walk in the park but that’s part of why we go where we go sometimes.

(Don't want to derail further but wonderful. Very glad you got that experience and your pictures are gorgeous. Hail brother, you're part of a very exclusive club now. Near peak whale season for you for sure. Drake is no joke. That first time you saw icey land and the whole ship popped?? What a feeling.)

 

[RocAFella1]

Same paradigm goes for many other things. I mean - does anyone still own their first Fleshlight? LOL

I believe they're known as "wife" to some.

 

[toothpic]

My very first “love” in poker chips and yes I still own them. View attachment 1052810
View attachment 1052814

I remember thinking $1.15 per chip was too expensive so I passed. Sigh.

 

[bergs]

I don’t think I’ve read a post in this thread that missed the mark as much as this one does.
I didn’t come here looking for “specific design elements” nor were they available at the time even if that was what was desired.

I came here looking for pieces of history, mementos of an era past that were not common, things that were unique, hard to find, that required patience and perseverance to realize.

Ok that’s you, not everyone here is going to want the same thing you do.

I came for the chaos of sets scattered to the winds by uncaring individuals, to reach into that chaos and pull something coherent out of it.

Not everyone has your patience.

I didn’t come to order stuff out of a catalog or simply make my budget known and have items magically paraded before me for the dollars.

Some people just want upgraded chips for a homegame. They may evolve in the hobby from there, but most of us started there.

I came to hunt the pieces, to build order out of disorder, hopefully beautiful creations that serve a purpose as well as honor their history.

You may think this is bullshit, but you don’t know me. If you did you maybe wouldn’t generalize as much as you do to justify your position.

There are others like me in this respect. Maybe not as vocal, but the same thing drives them.

And I respect that, but the people trying to shame the ones interested in China clays should just quietly STFU in my opinion.

 

[bergs]

Hot take. Unless your ripping off an individuals customs everything else is fair game. just understand the consequences.

#corporationsdonthavefeelings.

FWIW it would be weirdly hillarious for someone to rip off my Truman’s House customs. Like, the idea of my doggie living on via chips in someone else’s poker room actually makes me smile.

 

[upNdown]

From reading your posts in this thread, I'm getting the impression you dislike the CM replicas but perhaps are having difficulty articulating why. My impression is you're taking issue with fact that the replicas circumvent the one bylaw we all are required to adhere to as chippers regardless of what we seek: Scarcity.

The thing is, the CM chips are ENTRY LEVEL regardless of what is printed on them. They might be the best entry level product on the market for all the obvious reasons, but they're still entry level.

My first BMW was a piece of shit that was 10 years old and had 110k on the odometer when I bought it for $9k. For me though, it was the best $9k I'd ever spent and I'd rather buy that than a newer model year Kia or Pontiac with half the miles. Because it was a Bimmer!

Never mind the fact that it had mechanical problems the entire time I owned it and it sucked driving it in the Michigan winters. So after a couple years I upgraded to an AWD model taking a loss in the process. The point I'm trying to make is I knew it wasn't the last BMW I was going to own when I bought it, and now I'm on my 3rd. And I'm sure there were those who saw that car and said to themselves 'that's a poor man's BMW'. I didn't care. I knew that when I bought it.

Same paradigm goes for many other things. I mean - does anyone still own their first Fleshlight? LOL

I’m all for entry level. I had a stack of the cards molds to see how they felt. I briefly thought about customs. And though I’m not a huge fan of made in China, let’s be honest - I buy cheap shit every day.
But this notion that if you can’t afford Paulsons, your only other option is cheap copies of Paulsons is nonsense. I’d suggest buying other Tina designs, but I’m pretty sure every stock design she has is stolen, so yeah, maybe pay a little extra to have somebody make you a design. Or spend a little more and buy DDLMs from Brpro. Or spend a little less and get those plastic Poker Knights. There are practically endless options that aren’t ripoffs.

And it’s not about the scarcity thing for me either. The only expensive Paulsons I own at the moment are Dunes - the most knocked off chip in the history of the hobby. I’m not looking to be an exclusive owner. I chose dunes, knowing how many plastic and China clay dunes there are out there - doesn’t affect me at all.

 

[upNdown]

And it’s not about the scarcity thing for me either. The only expensive Paulsons I own at the moment are Dunes - the most knocked off chip in the history of the hobby. I’m not looking to be an exclusive owner. I chose dunes, knowing how many plastic and China clay dunes there are out there - doesn’t affect me at all.

And for what it’s worth, I sold the Foxwoods chips to fund the Dunes chips. As far as we know, the only THC Foxwoods playable set in existence. I sold that because I liked the big Dunes baccarats better. It didn’t matter at all that there are literally millions of dunes knockoffs out there. My position on knockoffs has nothing to do with status or exclusivity or anything. I’m not one of @ekricket crabs in a bucket. I think. I’m still not 100% about that analogy.

 

[glynn]

Yeah I don't know where the "scarcity" idea came from. You have never expressed anything remotely resembling that view.

 

[ekricket]

Ok that’s you, not everyone here is going to want the same thing you do.

Not everyone has your patience.

Some people just want upgraded chips for a homegame. They may evolve in the hobby from there, but most of us started there.

And I respect that, but the people trying to shame the ones interested in China clays should just quietly STFU in my opinion.

Ok, analyze this attached post then, because that’s what mine was in response to. Not everyone feels the same as he outlined here, and that’s what I was saying. But thank you for echoing my sentiments, even if you just jumped into half the conversation.

Lol at the folks who are all aghast with these cards mold chips. News flash. Boundaries were crossed long before cards mold.

The motivation for a cards mold 'tribute' chip is the same as those who seek to do it via other means like a tribute set via CPC with near identical inlay or via inlay replacement on a paulson chip with actual identical inlay. Or even those who go so far as posing as a gaming entity to dupe/defraud GPI.

It's not a strange concept that people want chips with certain design elements on their chips. It enhances their enjoyment for some reason. It's the same motivation that everyone had when they were first looking to upgrade from their dice chips. If you can't relate to that, then you're either lying to yourself, are completely disingenuous, or are a complete moron.

Majority of folks who are vehemently opposed to these cards mold chips likely have zero reservations about the above activities noted.

 

[TheOffalo]

I'm glad @ekricket started his post with on the last page with "I..." and as @Lil Tuna affirmed there are many that share his reasons, because we all came to PCF for a variety of reasons, and stayed a member for reasons that may have shifted. As a still relatively new member, sometimes PCF can feel a little gatekeeper-y even though for the most part people have been very welcoming. I understand protecting the culture, but a community does sometimes also need new blood to sustain itself, and with that comes potentially different attitudes.

I came to PCF because I bought some cheap metal sluggos a 1.25 years ago from DPS that impressed me, even though I had checked out PCF before and knew there were "better" out there. One of the first "upgrades" I bought was spirit molds from @Moxie Mike and I did make my own "Drunk Panda" design and labels that I was rather proud of. Also got some 8V CCs that I made labels for too (RIO WSOP tributes so not completely unique).

Then I fell in love with NCCs, the design, the backstory, etc. My budget was way under $1/chip, so the real thing wasn't feasible but then I bought a NCC CM set from @The_dude. I pieced together a set of Jack Cincinnati over the period of a year (not as impressive as 7 years) but them sold them to fund other stuff.

For the people who are here slowly, "painstakingly" (I say in quotes because I understand that it's an enjoyable pursuit) assembling a dream set over years, and making friends along the way, what did you do while that set was not yet playable? You had other, more affordable sets, that were easier to put together that you used in the meantime? Maybe I'll have that grail set to pursue, but I'm mostly here to make my home game "better" for myself and my guys sooner rather than later, so I may never leave the "phase" I'm in...

The recent attempts to make things “fair” to everyone don’t excite me, they cheapen the hobby in my opinion.

I do have to say, I really disagree with, and don't understand this sentiment. That seems like a really admirable goal. If fair pricing "cheapens" the hobby, then does secret NAGBs, artificial scarcities, and inflated pricing elevate it?

 

[ekricket]

I'm glad @ekricket started his post with on the last page with "I..." and as @Lil Tuna affirmed there are many that share his reasons, but we all came to PCF for a variety of reasons,

I bet you wish this guy would have used the word “I” or “my opinion” when he stated his factual opinion on why people came here. I’m perfectly aware, unlike the post below, that my opinion is exactly that - my opinion. I don’t make any generalities like the attached post does, and that is what I was responding to - his general lumping of people into his version of why they are here.
I’m saying the same thing - that we all came for different reasons and he shouldn’t lump everyone into his categories because they are incomplete. But feel free to harp on my opinions and ignore his assignments of motive to the general population as fact. I’m sorry you got hung up on my opinion and missed the other half of the conversation, the piece I was replying to.
I’m not saying that my opinion is right or wrong, it’s just different than the general assignment he made and I was trying to make that point to him.

Thank you too for supporting my position, that we all have different reasons for coming and staying, and we shouldn’t lump everyone into one category or another based on how we “feel” about things.

Lol at the folks who are all aghast with these cards mold chips. News flash. Boundaries were crossed long before cards mold.

The motivation for a cards mold 'tribute' chip is the same as those who seek to do it via other means like a tribute set via CPC with near identical inlay or via inlay replacement on a paulson chip with actual identical inlay. Or even those who go so far as posing as a gaming entity to dupe/defraud GPI.

It's not a strange concept that people want chips with certain design elements on their chips. It enhances their enjoyment for some reason. It's the same motivation that everyone had when they were first looking to upgrade from their dice chips. If you can't relate to that, then you're either lying to yourself, are completely disingenuous, or are a complete moron.

Majority of folks who are vehemently opposed to these cards mold chips likely have zero reservations about the above activities noted.

 

[ChipFinderSK]

I don’t know these names.

It’s because at a certain point the flippers became the majority

 

[ekricket]

For the people who are here slowly, "painstakingly" (I say in quotes because I understand that it's an enjoyable pursuit) assembling a dream set over years, and making friends along the way, what did you do while that set was not yet playable?

There were no card molds, there were no Jack chips of any kind, there were no Cincinnati horseshoe, and there were no Cleveland horseshoe to pick and choose from. No NAgB chips, no Dancing princesses, no pooping parrots, no lemonzest profiteering, no hundreds of CPC sets being made each year. There were a few CC alternatives, and believe it or not they were much more respected and sought out than they are now. Some cards mold people wouldn’t settle for CC or faux clay now, that’s how far an integral staple of the community has fallen.

So yes, there was a bit more making do with what you had, less “complete” sets, more mixed sets, and a bit more community perhaps because we had to lean on each other more. Anyone that had a cohesive set from the same casino was pretty lucky, and it was appreciated even more then as it is now.

THIS IS NOT REMINISCING ABOUT THE “good old days”. This is an answer to your direct question. It’s simply what we did before all the “entry level” options that are available now. We used what we had, borrowed sometimes - and we had smaller more realistic sets.
We couldn’t do anything else even if we had “specific design elements” we wanted. It wasn’t a choice, it was just how it was.

A lot of people were not ok with it for many reasons, and they sought other paths to get to a point where there were a little more ok with it or a lot more ok with it.
It’s taken some years (and tears) to get to the point where “entry level” means more than anything but dice chips. So in a way some of us didn’t settle for entry level because there simply wasn’t much to settle on.

 

[jr8719]

As the first chipper to get the NCC made as a CM set – and probably one of the first to use CM to create a "historical" tribute set – I can only speak to the reasons as to why I had them made (and probably why others have, too):

• The history and cultural significance of New China Club really spoke to me.
• The design and colours of the chips themselves look incredible.
• Putting together a playable set of original NCC TRKs is not only almost impossible nowadays — but too expensive, also.

Despite the discussion we're currently having, I have no regrets — and appreciate that people have mixed opinions on the matter.

What grinds my gears a little, however, is that people (often veteran chippers) have done exactly the same thing using CPC — but we get radio silence on the matter?

I'm not asking for a witch hunt: just some consistency.

 

[TheOffalo]

As the first chipper to get the NCC made as a CM set – and probably one of the first to use CM to create a "historical" tribute set – I can only speak to the reasons as to why I had them made (and probably why others have, too):

• The history and cultural significance of New China Club really spoke to me.
• The design and colours of the chips themselves look incredible.
• Putting together a playable set of original NCC TRKs is not only almost impossible nowadays — but too expensive, also.

View attachment 1052900

Despite the discussion we're currently having, I have no regrets — and appreciate that people have mixed opinions on the matter.

What grinds my gears a little, however, is that people (often veteran chippers) have done exactly the same thing using CPC — but we get radio silence on the matter?

I'm not asking for a witch hunt: just some consistency.

Thanks for having them made (I assume whoever designed yours designed the "$" ones too)! I love my set. I do covet the yellow Keno Queens. Someone bought a set that had some yellow KQs for a friend and I had asked if the friend would be willing to trade a few barrels of the yellow KQs for identical denom green KQs but I didn't hear back. Have to find that PM and follow-up!

Also, people are consistently inconsistent, for better or for worse...

 

[Moxie Mike]

And for what it’s worth, I sold the Foxwoods chips to fund the Dunes chips. As far as we know, the only THC Foxwoods playable set in existence. I sold that because I liked the big Dunes baccarats better. It didn’t matter at all that there are literally millions of dunes knockoffs out there. My position on knockoffs has nothing to do with status or exclusivity or anything. I’m not one of @ekricket crabs in a bucket. I think. I’m still not 100% about that analogy.

But you never mentioned if you still own your first fleshlight or not. Perhaps a poll is appropriate?

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

As the first chipper to get the NCC made as a CM set – and probably one of the first to use CM to create a "historical" tribute set – I can only speak to the reasons as to why I had them made (and probably why others have, too):

• The history and cultural significance of New China Club really spoke to me.
• The design and colours of the chips themselves look incredible.
• Putting together a playable set of original NCC TRKs is not only almost impossible nowadays — but too expensive, also.

View attachment 1052900

Despite the discussion we're currently having, I have no regrets — and appreciate that people have mixed opinions on the matter.

What grinds my gears a little, however, is that people (often veteran chippers) have done exactly the same thing using CPC — but we get radio silence on the matter?

I'm not asking for a witch hunt: just some consistency.

Nice chips, homie, its just too bad there's no dollar signs, you've got all those fantasy symbols instead...

 

[upNdown]

As the first chipper to get the NCC made as a CM set – and probably one of the first to use CM to create a "historical" tribute set – I can only speak to the reasons as to why I had them made (and probably why others have, too):

• The history and cultural significance of New China Club really spoke to me.
• The design and colours of the chips themselves look incredible.
• Putting together a playable set of original NCC TRKs is not only almost impossible nowadays — but too expensive, also.

View attachment 1052900

Despite the discussion we're currently having, I have no regrets — and appreciate that people have mixed opinions on the matter.

What grinds my gears a little, however, is that people (often veteran chippers) have done exactly the same thing using CPC — but we get radio silence on the matter?

I'm not asking for a witch hunt: just some consistency.

I appreciate what you've said. I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. I just have to ask for clarification. And if you don't want to name names, I understand - this isn't an attack on you or anybody. But I keep reading how people have done the exact same thing on CPC and I just don't remember ever seeing it. Am I misremembering? Or are you? Yes, there were tons of TRIBUTE sets on CPC. But did anybody make a CPC set called New China Club, with their colors, spot patterns, and art? Did anybody do that for any casino?
I remember people trying to copy Aria colors as perfectly as they could, and they even used the A silhouette artwork, but the inlays didn't say Aria.

Do we just disagree on what a copy is?
Or am I not remembering these copies?
Or are you misremembering them?

 

[eightyWon]

My opinion: live and let live. How someone chooses to participate in the hobby is their choice. Letting it rustle your jimmies or spoil your experience, to me, seems silly. Expecting someone to worship the same sacred cows you do and being offended when they don't... I just can't relate to that.

Again, this isn't meant to offend, it's just my perspective.

 

[BarrieJ3]

FWIW it would be weirdly hillarious for someone to rip off my Truman’s House customs. Like, the idea of my doggie living on via chips in someone else’s poker room actually makes me smile.

A sample set with that sweet pup on em can live in glory forever alongside other pup customs in what will assuredly be the greatest custom display of our generations.

Help me to help you smile.

 

[jr8719]

I appreciate what you've said. I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. I just have to ask for clarification. And if you don't want to name names, I understand - this isn't an attack on you or anybody. But I keep reading how people have done the exact same thing on CPC and I just don't remember ever seeing it. Am I misremembering? Or are you? Yes, there were tons of TRIBUTE sets on CPC. But did anybody make a CPC set called New China Club, with their colors, spot patterns, and art? Did anybody do that for any casino?
I remember people trying to copy Aria colors as perfectly as they could, and they even used the A silhouette artwork, but the inlays didn't say Aria.

Do we just disagree on what a copy is?
Or am I not remembering these copies?
Or are you misremembering them?

Off the top of my head, I've seen a Silver Saddle tribute and a Mapes Scrown add-on via CPC relatively recently. And, for the record, both were phenomenal.

 

[JeepologyOffroad]

Off the top of my head, I've seen a Silver Saddle tribute and a Mapes Scrown add-on via CPC relatively recently. And, for the record, both were phenomenal.

Cactus Pete’s

 

[upNdown]

Cactus Pete’s

Yeesh. And I loved those. hmm . . .

 

[ChipEnvy]

I’ll still pound beer and sling cards with you regardless of the chips put in play.

This had me looking up where your from…

 

[TheOffalo]

Yeesh. And I loved those. hmm . . .

Ironically (?) Fittingly I've had the John Wick trilogy on the TV while I've been working all day... Thanks HBO!

 

[allforcharity]

the next logical step is almost always ripoffs and knockoffs... you should have plans to combat these because they will happen

Okay. So my plan is to combat this is to discourage simple copies from being made by encouraging more and different creative ideas in chip design, and decrying FOMO.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Okay. So my plan is to combat this is to discourage simple copies from being made by encouraging more and different creative ideas in chip design, and decrying FOMO.

Good, I like it and I try to do the same. Im just speaking to the 'next logical step'.

I'm not beholden to old chips or molds either. I don't know what edge spot progression is and at this point I'm too scared to ask.

 

[RocAFella1]

Will we ever see cards mold tributes of cards mold?